This has been a tough week for syracusefan.com

[Alsacs]

So when arguing with ForCuseSake on the NFL board about Pats record vs other divisions you want to extrapolate smaller data in order to win the argument. But in this case, we should not extrapolate the smaller data so you can win the argument?

Got it.

What data on the Patriots am I extrapolating?
I mean cmon if somebody has to take the shots because we literally had no other options and this year we have more options they shoot less.
This isn’t anything like that.

We only had 4 guys who could score last year. You know that. Battle/Howard/Brissett pretty took all the shots. We would bleed the clock and then throw up shots.
Now we have Hughes/Buddy/Carey getting shots thus Battle has to take less shots and because they are hard shots his percentage is better. Please tell me you get this. I mean cmon it has nothing to do with the Patriots or the other point.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

[QUOTE="orangecuse, post: 2878380, member: 668"Okay, not Roberts then, but #25 for the Terps (who's a frosh) and is from one of our hot recruiting spots, Baltimore.[/QUOTE]

Jalen “Sticks” Smith. I saw him play against Bazely last year at Peach Jam. He outplayed Bazely and I knew he was really good.

 

[Alsacs]

be that as it may it doesn't change the fact that one set of penalties targets the past and the other targets the future.

and you cannot criticize the past 4 years without weighing impact of those penalties.

or you can but it signals you as a poster not to be taken seriously

Of course losing scholarships hurt nobody is saying they didn’t hurt.
The point is for our program which plays a small rotation it wasn’t as big a problem.
Our problem was who we brought in and missed on.
We all know the sanctions pushed BJ Johnson out and cost us Kevin Huerter.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bring in a big who can actually help the offense. It shouldn’t be that hard.

 

[NateW]

What data on the Patriots am I extrapolating?
I mean cmon if somebody has to take the shots because we literally had no other options and this year we have more options they shoot less.
This isn’t anything like that.

We only had 4 guys who could score last year. You know that. Battle/Howard/Brissett pretty took all the shots. We would bleed the clock and then throw up shots.
Now we have Hughes/Buddy/Carey getting shots thus Battle has to take less shots and because they are hard shots his percentage is better. Please tell me you get this. I mean cmon it has nothing to do with the Patriots or the other point.

Bottom line is if you watch the games Battle is hitting the same shots more consistently. He is better at creating space on his pull up and better at creating space on his step back.

You think that NOT ONE single player on the team is better at ONE single thing offensively this season from last? And YOU'RE the realist?

Please.

 

[moqui]

The point is for our program which plays a small rotation it wasn’t as big a problem.

the facts in front of us say that this assumption may well be incorrect. i can think of multiple reasons why but there is no point leading a horse to water which he will not even taste

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Of course losing scholarships hurt nobody is saying they didn’t hurt.
The point is for our program which plays a small rotation it wasn’t as big a problem.
Our problem was who we brought in and missed on.
We all know the sanctions pushed BJ Johnson out and cost us Kevin Huerter.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bring in a big who can actually help the offense. It shouldn’t be that hard.

But, if we had 3 more scholarships every year, wouldn’t we possibly have landed a player that might have helped us each of those years?

 

[Alsacs]

Bottom line is if you watch the games Battle is hitting the same shots more consistently. He is better at creating space on his pull up and better at creating space on his step back.

You think that NOT ONE single player on the team is better at ONE single thing offensively this season from last? And YOU'RE the realist?

Please.

I don’t think anyone is better. I think the difference is we have more depth.
Hughes being a legit 3rd option which to his credit I was wrong on has helped the offense more than anything.

Hughes is giving us 15 ppg that is the extra scorer we didn’t have last year.

 

[Alsacs]

But, if we had 3 more scholarships every year, wouldn’t we possibly have landed a player that might have helped us each of those years?

If you looked at the numbers the past decade we never used all 13 on scholarship players outside of 2012.
JB has typically given 1-2 to walkons for APR benefit.
This has been brought up as well.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Agreed on Frank, Sid, Marek. Jury is still out on Brissett. I'm leaving it at that.

Fair enough. Maybe Brissett should have stayed on campus over the Summer so the staff could work with him.

I think if we are to have this discussion, we need to include the kids brought in that got sent away as well. They were players here that weren't developed, or perhaps they shouldn't have been brought in.

Like whom? BJ? Patterson? Chino? Joseph? Can’t develop kids that are not here. Aside from BJ, those other players weren’t very good. Players leave every program.

 

[Alsacs]

the facts in front of us say that this assumption may well be incorrect. i can think of multiple reasons why but there is no point leading a horse to water which he will not even taste

So we used all 13 scholarship every year?
2010- we used 11 scholarships
2011- we used 11 scholarships
2012- we used all 13 scholarships
2013- we used 11 scholarships
2014- we used 11 scholarships
Then sanctions hit. All those years of 11 walkons were getting the last 2 to
Pump up the APR as a benefit. As we early departures.
The fact is because of early departures we weren’t using all 13 and JB was giving them to walkons.
Again this was another reason people said the penalties weren’t as bad because JB never had 13 guys every year.
If you look back to 2010 it was only once we had a full 13 which was 2012.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I don’t think anyone is better. I think the difference is we have more de

If you looked at the numbers the past decade we never used all 13 on scholarship players outside of 2012.
JB has typically given 1-2 to walkons for APR benefit.
This has been brought up as well.

But he would have used them if they were good, right? That’s 3 more players to choose from. Meaning some of the ones that were not good, may not have played.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Fair enough. Maybe Brissett should have stayed on campus over the Summer so the staff could work with him.

Like whom? BJ? Patterson? Chino? Joseph? Can’t develop kids that are not here. Aside from BJ, those other players weren’t very good. Players leave every program.

Completely agree about Brissett, although I'm not certain about how much contact the staff could have, but playing with his teammates would have absolutely helped.

BJ is a great example. That kid should have been guided into redshirting his frosh year. Yeah, I know JB doesn't make kids do that, but he's in the HOF, he needs to use that card every once in a while. And the rest, more along the lines of kids we shouldn't have brought in. Chino - looked like JB's new prototypical center, but wasn't a player. We need more players. Less zone ready guys.

 

[moqui]

But, if we had 3 more scholarships every year, wouldn’t we possibly have landed a player that might have helped us each of those years?

*cough*kevin huerter*cough*

 

[Alsacs]

But he would have used them if they were good, right? That’s 3 more players to choose from. Meaning some of the ones that were not good, may not have plated.

No all we lost those years was JB giving scholarships to walkons for the APR benefit.
If you look at JB’s tendencies it was not to use all 13. He typically had 11 and then used the remaining ones on walkons unless he thought the additional guys could help.
JB always gambled with this last scholarships on guys like Mike Williams, Devin McBribe types.

The problem we had was during our sanctions we were using a scholarship on a guy like Chino who did very little and we had a need for help.

 

[orangecuse]

So we used all 13 scholarship every year?
2010- we used 11 scholarships
2011- we used 11 scholarships
2012- we used all 13 scholarships
2013- we used 11 scholarships
2014- we used 11 scholarships
Then sanctions hit. All those years of 11 walkons were getting the last 2 to
Pump up the APR as a benefit. As we early departures.
The fact is because of early departures we weren’t using all 13 and JB was giving them to walkons.
Again this was another reason people said the penalties weren’t as bad because JB never had 13 guys every year.
If you look back to 2010 it was only once we had a full 13 which was 2012.

Good for you for not getting personal in this debate between you and Moqui. He couldn't help himself with his dig of keep it up if you want to be deemed as a poster not to be taken seriously. Maybe he should take his own advice about "signals" as his "crippling" remarks are foolish. Possibly, he doesn't know the true definition of "crippling."

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Completely agree about Brissett, although I'm not certain about how much contact the staff could have, but playing with his teammates would have absolutely helped.

BJ is a great example. That kid should have been guided into redshirting his frosh year. Yeah, I know JB doesn't make kids do that, but he's in the HOF, he needs to use that card every once in a while. And the rest, more along the lines of kids we shouldn't have brought in. Chino - looked like JB's new prototypical center, but wasn't a player. We need more players. Less zone ready guys.

I’m not sure, but thought BJ and his dad were adamant about not redshirting. That’s not Boeheim’s fault.

Every program has kids they shouldn’t have brought in. Chino was a 3-star kid, He was never the plan.

Was does zone ready mean? Tall, long and athletic kids? Yeah who wants that?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

No all we lost those years was JB giving scholarships to walkons for the APR benefit.
If you look at JB’s tendencies it was not to use all 13. He typically had 11 and then used the remaining ones on walkons unless he thought the additional guys could help.
JB always gambled with this last scholarships on guys like Mike Williams, Devin McBribe types.

The problem we had was during our sanctions we were using a scholarship on a guy like Chino who did very little and we had a need for help.

What? How do you know he’s doesn’t bring in a Tyler Lydon type kid with one of those 3 scholarships each year? We would have taken Heurter.

It’s silly to think none of those 13 scholarships would have been good players. Or even half of them.

 

[Alsacs]

Good for you for not getting personal in this debate between you and Moqui. He couldn't help himself with his dig of keep it up if you want to be deemed as a poster not to be taken seriously. Maybe he should take his own advice about "signals" as his "crippling" remarks are foolish. Possibly he doesn't know the true definition of "crippling."

It is because it’s spin they are using.
I have looked at this stuff all the time.
The sanctions hurt us but they aren’t why we are medicore. JB never used all 13. He always gave 1-2 to walkons as I said for the APR benefit or a project player.
2012 we had a legit 13 and JB went 10.5 deep that year.
The sanctions hurt us but the scholarships weren’t as problematic as our recruiting missed have been.

We should have gotten Thomas Bryant. We didn’t. We missed other guys as well.
Kevin Huerter is really the only guy we know sanctions cost us and again we chose Tyus Battle over him.

 

[HOFCeluck]

That’s not Boeheim’s fault.

Nothing ever is. At least to some people.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Nothing ever is. At least to some people.

Is it in this case?

 

[Alsacs]

What? How do you know he’s doesn’t bring in a Tyler Lydon type kid with one of those 3 scholarships each year? We would have taken Heurter.

It’s silly to think none of those 13 scholarships would have been good players. Or even half of them.

Lydon was the 52nd recruit in his class he wasn’t a project.
So yeah if we could have gotten a player that good JB could have pushed Chino out.
We didn’t and he didn’t push Chino out.
Sanctions cost us Huerter I agree but you are ignoring the point that is being made JB didn’t use all 13 pretty much every year. He rewarded walkons and you know it. The walkons were the biggest losers during the sanctions if you want to be fair.

 

[moqui]

Again please answer the question what player from last year has gotten better? And how?

tyus, frank and marek all have higher offensive ratings thus far than they did last season.

but this partial season is more heavily weighted with non conference games. for a better like-to-like comparision, look at kenpom's tier a&b games. again, all three are performing better than last year.

it is a small sample size, just 7 games compared to 23 for all of last year (and only 5 in frank's case). but you raised the question of who has improved at this point so you have to live with the data as it exists.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Is it in this case?

Is it?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

It is because it’s spin they are using.
I have looked at this stuff all the time.
The sanctions hurt us but they aren’t why we are medicore. JB never used all 13. He always gave 1-2 to walkons as I said for the APR benefit or a project player.
2012 we had a legit 13 and JB went 10.5 deep that year.
The sanctions hurt us but the scholarships weren’t as problematic as our recruiting missed have been.

We should have gotten Thomas Bryant. We didn’t. We missed other guys as well.
Kevin Huerter is really the only guy we know sanctions cost us and again we chose Tyus Battle over him.

It’s not about using all 13. That’s what you are not getting. It’s about having more players to choose from to help the team. 4 more players per year certainly helps.

Also, did the sanctions scare off Thomas Bryant and others? How would you know?

We would have had Battle & Heurter. Think that would have been good?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Is it?

I just explained why it isn’t. Ask BJ and his Dad. Unless you think JB can force a kid to RS.