This Tournament Really is an Indictment of our Strategy

[SaltLakeOrange]

To be fair to the OP he is referencing our strategy and how this tournament shows it doesn’t work. And we have to look all the way to 2018 to show a time when it did work. So there’s that.

It got us to the sweet 16. Is that the new definition of success?

 

[Cuse'91]

It got us to the sweet 16. Is that the new definition of success?

Not quite that bad, but I think this fanbase hangs their hat on just making the Final Four. Never mind we lose in the semis, but hey, we made it to the Final Four baby!!!

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Not quite that bad, but I think this fanbase hangs their hat on just making the Final Four. Never mind we lose it the semis, but hey, we made it to the Final Four baby!!!

Concur. But really, our problems are offensive. What I'd give for a center and point guard.

 

[OrangeDW]

Not quite that bad, but I think this fanbase hangs their hat on just making the Final Four. Never mind we lose it the semis, but hey, we made it to the Final Four baby!!!

We’ve only made 6 in our history, so yeah...it’s a big deal.

There’s only 9 programs who have made more than 6, so it’s a big deal for just about everybody.

 

[Tobias Funke]

It got us to the sweet 16. Is that the new definition of success?

Not the definition of failure by any stretch.

 

[Cuse'91]

We’ve only made 6 in our history, so yeah...it’s a big deal.

There’s only 9 programs who have made more than 6, so it’s a big deal for just about everybody.

I guess, but just once I would like Syracuse to get to the Final Four when it's expected to get there. A year when every talking head says "yeah. Orange definitely belong there." Pulling a fluke F4 out of the colon, and then crashing and burning in the Semis, not so much...

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Not the definition of failure by any stretch.

That's not what I asked.

 

[Bayside44]

I guess, but just once I would like Syracuse to get to the Final Four when it's expected to get there. A year when every talking head says "yeah. Orange definitely belong there." Pulling a fluke F4 out of the colon, and then crashing and burning in the Semis, not so much...

For every fluke there is a Butler or Ohio State screwjob. Odds even out over time.

 

[Tobias Funke]

That's not what I asked.

Then yes making the sweet 16 is a pretty successful year. Not the height of success but definitely a strong year. Given Boeheins career making the sweet 16 is generally considered a good year.

 

[longislandcuse]

You have to win 4 games to get to the Final Four, 6 for a Natty. Having zero backup plan on defense is an absolute joke when you think about it.

In M2M, you can at least “man up” defensively, hold the defender accountable, tactically handle switches/hedges differently or put a new defender in the game. Even if it doesn’t work, at least there’s legitimate adjustments being made.

Our zone is basically “hope they eventually miss”, because if you pass it around enough, over the course of 25-27 seconds (because we don’t dare token press), eventually a shooter can get open.

Who cares if you have the #1 statistical defense if you can’t adjust when you start to get knocked the f out in a one and done format?...

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

You have to win 4 games to get to the Final Four, 6 for a Natty. Having zero backup plan on defense is an absolute joke when you think about it.

In M2M, you can at least “man up” defensively, hold the defender accountable, tactically handle switches/hedges differently or put a new defender in the game. Even if it doesn’t work, at least there’s legitimate adjustments being made.

Our zone is basically “hope they eventually miss”, because if you pass it around enough, over the course of 25-27 seconds (because we don’t dare token press), eventually a shooter can get open.

Who cares if you have the #1 statistical defense if you can’t adjust when you start to get knocked the f out in a one and done format?...

BTW...as you type that, Gonzaga has almost doubled up Baylor...

 

[General20]

Everyone can handle. Everyone can shoot. Players generally know what to do during most/all game situations (foul/not foul, etc).

EVERY team can shoot threes for a stretch. The 2-3 zone is probably the exact wrong defense to play against this next generation of players.

Ball movement creating good shots happens across the spectrum of Major, mid-major, etc. Our Offense is just plain bad, no question about it.

It's been said a lot, but our "recruit to a position/skill-set" is probably not the answer.

You need to be able to switch D's to defend shooters...

Our press needs a ton of work...it shouldn't/doesn't have to be do or die.

In short, this post is highly redundant to the board's reactionaries (myself included), but tying it back to the winning play on the court, we just aren't doing things right.

Funny how the zone became obsolete the exact moment Frank Howard stopped playing ... before that it was elite. Trends really change fast in basketball.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Funny how the zone became obsolete the exact moment Frank Howard stopped playing ... before that it was elite. Trends really change fast in basketball.

Hmm... stretch there

 

[samspann1]

I dunno - it wasn't looking very elite when we played good teams this year (UNC, Duke, UVa, Buffalo)

 

[General20]

Hmm... stretch there

Last year with a healthy Frank Howard Syracuse had one of the best defenses of all time. This year with a gimpy Frank Howard Syracuse only allowed 32% from 3. Exactly what part of that is a stretch?

 

[kirbivore]

I am more concerned about the offense than the defense.

We struggle shooting.
Our bigs can’t do anything offensively.
Our passing is not good.
We don’t finish at the rim well.

Most of our problems are related to offense and not defense.

watching Michigan today I forgot that a college 7 footer could actually catch the ball and do basic post moves

 

[longislandcuse]

Baylor offense against Gonzaga...

 

[General20]

I dunno - it wasn't looking very elite when we played good teams this year (UNC, Duke, UVa, Buffalo)

Good teams score lots of points. We held Duke below their season average twice, and held Buffalo 15 points under their season average.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Last year with a healthy Frank Howard Syracuse had one of the best defenses of all time. This year with a gimpy Frank Howard Syracuse only allowed 32% from 3. Exactly what part of that is a stretch?

Stretch wasn’t the correct verbiage

 

[kirbivore]

For every fluke there is a Butler or Ohio State screwjob. Odds even out over time.

JB screwed himself by going stall ball vs. Butler only up 4 with 4:00 left. His stall blackjack basic strategy card is mostly spot on but he was wrong that night.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Good teams score lots of points. We held Duke below their season average twice, and held Buffalo 15 points under their season average.

A big part of that is because we have the ball so much of the game just draining game clock away. Look, my issue is far more on the offensive side like many others. I’m fine with zone. But Baylor, a team not known for shooting, made 16 threes and eliminated syracuse from a single elimination tournament. They obviously got comfortable. I didn’t see nearly enough attempts at making them uncomfortable.

 

[General20]

A big part of that is because we have the ball so much of the game just draining game clock away. Look, my issue is far more on the offensive side like many others. I’m fine with zone. But Baylor, a team not known for shooting, made 16 threes and eliminated syracuse from a single elimination tournament. They obviously got comfortable. I didn’t see nearly enough attempts at making them uncomfortable.

Yes you are right, the Syracuse defense was not great against Baylor. But that's not because the zone is obsolete as the OP is suggesting. Its because Syracuse was playing a Freshman and Tyus Battle coming off an injury (he looked winded to me a lot of the game, and played bad D). That is my point here. Its silly to say that kids are just too good at shooting to zone now when just last year nobody could hit a 3 against us. Trends change over time, but they don't change that fast, and no matter how things change you can always adjust a zone to get a hand in shooters face.

 

[longislandcuse]

Yes you are right, the Syracuse defense was not great against Baylor. But that's not because the zone is obsolete as the OP is suggesting. Its because Syracuse was playing a Freshman and Tyus Battle coming off an injury (he looked winded to me a lot of the game, and played bad D). That is my point here. Its silly to say that kids are just too good at shooting to zone now when just last year nobody could hit a 3 against us. Trends change over time, but they don't change that fast, and no matter how things change you can always adjust a zone to get a hand in shooters face.

So what happened against Virginia Tech and Virginia?

Why didn’t we just adjust the zone to get a hand in the shooters face?

 

[General20]

So what happened against Virginia Tech and Virginia?

Why didn’t we just adjust the zone to get a hand in the shooters face?

Virginia played the greatest game of basketball I've ever seen, and Viginia Tech scored about their season average against us. Our O was the problem against them. We couldn't handle the pressure D.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

So what happened against Virginia Tech and Virginia?

Why didn’t we just adjust the zone to get a hand in the shooters face?

Zone got torched way too many times this year. Like absolutely lit up, especially against the good teams.

It worked against the bad teams. But that’s not saying much. Sometimes it didn’t even work against the bad teams (UConn and GaTech).

Bottom line, we need more defensive options. Next year’s team really isn’t built for the zone either. Much smaller team and guard dominant. We will struggle to beat many decent teams playing zone next year.