Total Rebuild. 3-4 years. Nm

[GoSU96]

Be fair. It's not just the record. They are in the 120s in yards per play defense.

Second most plays allowed over 20, 3o, , 60 yds. Tied for 3rd most over 40, tied for most over 70.

That's the kind of thing that can get corrected. It's been ridiculous, but let's see if they can tighten that up over the season.

 

[Millhouse]

Second most plays allowed over 20, 3o, , 60 yds. Tied for 3rd most over 40, tied for most over 70.

That's the kind of thing that can get corrected. It's been ridiculous, but let's see if they can tighten that up over the season.

I'm not that worried but I can see why people are and I can't blame them. I don't like being with Hawaii and rice, even given who we played

 

[nzm136]

Second most plays allowed over 20, 3o, , 60 yds. Tied for 3rd most over 40, tied for most over 70.

That's the kind of thing that can get corrected. It's been ridiculous, but let's see if they can tighten that up over the season.

I think that too much is being made over our shortcomings on defense. We're 3 games into a very new system. 1) the sample size is way too small to say if it will work or not, 2) the players are still learning it, so stupid mistakes will happen, 3) the players weren't recruited for this system, so they don't have the right strengths to make it work well, and 4) we weren't very good on defense last year, so expecting us to be good on defense this year is nuts.

Also, we have an offense that keeps the defense on the field, so good defenses will look average, average defenses will look bad, and so on.

Just like it's too early to say the offense is a success, it's too early to say that the defense is a failure.

 

[TheCusian]

Shafer never held a pressor in year one and said, things might not click til year 3. Dino has been given the red carpet treatment. I get it, bc he has been a hc, has a system. That said, his style needs to be proved at this level. Minus baylor, in the big12 which is glorified flag football.

"It's Shafer's first season as HC and they are in the ACC and they graduated the best O players and lost his OC. BUT at least there is continuity on defense."

Sound familiar?

"They lost their QB and went through a mid season transistion at OC. And McDonald is a tool"

He got three years. I made the case he could have gotten more, but he couldn't make the right hire and gains on O. We gave him credit in year one, years two and three stunk.

Dino has 3 years (same amount!) to build it. It's been three games. The reason the heat isn't on is because it's game three, not because of anything he's said.

Your premise is way off.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Shafer never held a pressor in year one and said, things might not click til year 3. Dino has been given the red carpet treatment. I get it, bc he has been a hc, has a system. That said, his style needs to be proved at this level. Minus baylor, in the big12 which is glorified flag football.

Schafer COULDN'T have that presser because he'd never had a track record to run on. I don't understand this animosity and irrational expectations being placed on HCDB, especially after only 3 games. Not for nothing but there seems to be an agenda here. JMHO

 

[alphaorange]

Syracuse has one of the best and most patient fan bases in the nation. And that the fans reserve the right to leave games early and complain on message boards because of it. This program hasn't been ranked since 2001. This program's best coach this century only had a 25-25 record and bailed on us in an awful manner. This program has had two of the worst coaches in its history (Robinson, Shafer) this century. I can't remember the list of programs that hasn't been ranked since 2001, but I'm willing to bet Syracuse has the most fan support of them all.

I believe in Dino Babers, but it also completely effin' sucks that we once again have to wait 3 years to see any progress.

Yes, it sucks, but guess what? It isn't Baber's fault and it isn't the players fault. I don'tknow what you are basing your statement about us being one of the most patient bases, but I strongly disagree, as do 30k empty seats. A large portion is beetchy and whiney, or ambivalent. We act like we are entitled to major success when we have done nothing to merit it. Lack of financial investment and a series of bad hires will do that.

 

[Ish88888]

"It's Shafer's first season as HC and they are in the ACC and they graduated the best O players and lost his OC. BUT at least there is continuity on defense."

Sound familiar?

"They lost their QB and went through a mid season transistion at OC. And McDonald is a tool"

He got three years. I made the case he could have gotten more, but he couldn't make the right hire and gains on O. We gave him credit in year one, years two and three stunk.

Dino has 3 years (same amount!) to build it. It's been three games. The reason the heat isn't on is because it's game three, not because of anything he's said.

Your premise is way off.

Shafer only got 3 years bc of qb injuries. Even then, he got hammered with the worst luck with qb injuries.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Be fair. It's not just the record. They are in the 120s in yards per play defense.

Be fair. We're ranked in the 90's in yards per play offense and worst than last year at this point.

The absolute nightmare on defense has covered up the lack of efficiency and production of the offense which has been abysmal in our 2 FBS games. At current pace, this offense is less efficient and productive than Lesters scheme last year with a walk-on QB.

The real analytical numbers support the above and not the deceiving raw numbers which are only hopped up due to the number of plays being run.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Be fair. We're ranked in the 90's in yards per play offense and worst than last year at this point.

The absolute nightmare on defense has covered up the lack of efficiency and production of the offense which has been abysmal in our 2 FBS games. At current pace, this offense is less efficient and productive than Lesters scheme last year with a walk-on QB.

The real analytical numbers support the above and not the deceiving raw numbers which are only hopped up due to the number of plays being run.

Look, Lester's offense was crap. Throw out the numbers. There was no future in it.

 

[Millhouse]

Be fair. We're ranked in the 90's in yards per play offense and worst than last year at this point.

The absolute nightmare on defense has covered up the lack of efficiency and production of the offense which has been abysmal in our 2 FBS games. At current pace, this offense is less efficient and productive than Lesters scheme last year with a walk-on QB.

The real analytical numbers support the above and not the deceiving raw numbers which are only hopped up due to the number of plays being run.

I'm always telling people to look at yards per play, what are you taking about

 

[TheCusian]

Shafer only got 3 years bc of qb injuries. Even then, he got hammered with the worst luck with qb injuries.

That's like 1/5 of the story. He hired a horrible OC, then a mediocre OC. Regressed on D. Made horrible in-game decisions. Didn't improve recruiting enough. And simply: did not win enough.

You could make the case for a fourth year, but you can't act like there wasn't enough there to fire him OR that things were trending in the right direction.

The fact that you're judging Dino in game 3 by the same metrics used to judge Shafer after 3 years is crazy. People were on board with Shafer after the Texas bowl win.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Look, Lester's offense was crap. Throw out the numbers. There was no future in it.

Your statement doesn't change that last year we averaged more yards per play and points per possession than we currently do this year. Those are facts.

Btw, it was a new scheme with a new OC last year too. We may end up being the Baylor of the NE someday but right now this offense has been one of the most inefficient in the country against FBS teams.

This isnt a jab at HCDB its to continue to point out that the bad offense has contributed to the woodshed beatings as well as the indefensible defense despite all of the "record-setting" numbers I am told about after each loss.

 

[TheCusian]

Be fair. We're ranked in the 90's in yards per play offense and worst than last year at this point.

The absolute nightmare on defense has covered up the lack of efficiency and production of the offense which has been abysmal in our 2 FBS games. At current pace, this offense is less efficient and productive than Lesters scheme last year with a walk-on QB.

The real analytical numbers support the above and not the deceiving raw numbers which are only hopped up due to the number of plays being run.

We also played a worse FCS school, a bottom feeder conference team, and a middle of the pack MAC school by the same time last year. To be fair.

Less effecient is one thing. But total yards matter more than you're letting on. There is a correlation between more yards and more points. Effecient or not.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

I'm always telling people to look at yards per play, what are you taking about

Wasn't calling you out. Sorry if it came across as such. Was using your defensive stats post to make a point about the offense.

I respect your understanding of the numbers without a doubt.

Btw, cfb analytics . com has number of possessions per game and plays per possession. I think you mentioned looking for it earlier.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

We also played a worse FCS school, a bottom feeder conference team, and a middle of the pack MAC school by the same time last year. To be fair.

Less effecient is one thing. But total yards matter more than you're letting on. There is a correlation between more yards and more points. Effecient or not.

As a point of clarity cusian I was using the full year 2015 numbers versus 2016 to date. FBS competition only. Not trying to be deceitful man.

Believe me. I want this all to work out. It's just obvious to me that none of it has to this point. And yes, I do understand it's way to early to know where this is going.

I'm a tried and true Syracuse fan first and foremost and hope it all goes as HCDB plans. I just can't have the faith without evidence quite yet.

 

[GoSU96]

Your statement doesn't change that last year we averaged more yards per play and points per possession than we currently do this year. Those are facts.

Btw, it was a new scheme with a new OC last year too. We may end up being the Baylor of the NE someday but right now this offense has been one of the most inefficient in the country against FBS teams.

This isnt a jab at HCDB its to continue to point out that the bad offense has contributed to the woodshed beatings as well as the indefensible defense despite all of the "record-setting" numbers I am told about after each loss.

Yep nobody has mentioned any of those things. Completely ignored

 

[GoSU96]

As a point of clarity cusian I was using the full year 2015 numbers versus 2016 to date. FBS competition only. Not trying to be deceitful man.

Believe me. I want this all to work out. It's just obvious to me that none of it has to this point. And yes, I do understand it's way to early to know where this is going.

I'm a tried and true Syracuse fan first and foremost and hope it all goes as HCDB plans. I just can't have the faith without evidence quite yet.

None of it

That's a crock

 

[TheCusian]

Your statement doesn't change that last year we averaged more yards per play and points per possession than we currently do this year. Those are facts.

Btw, it was a new scheme with a new OC last year too. We may end up being the Baylor of the NE someday but right now this offense has been one of the most inefficient in the country against FBS teams.

This isnt a jab at HCDB its to continue to point out that the bad offense has contributed to the woodshed beatings as well as the indefensible defense despite all of the "record-setting" numbers I am told about after each loss.

I think you're beating this drum a little too loudly. We were slightly more effecient running half the plays last season. That's a lesser chance to make up for the inefficiency.

Not to mention more reps in this offense speeds up the learning process considerably which leads to more a effecient performance.

In other words, get your shots in now

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Your statement doesn't change that last year we averaged more yards per play and points per possession than we currently do this year. Those are facts.

Btw, it was a new scheme with a new OC last year too. We may end up being the Baylor of the NE someday but right now this offense has been one of the most inefficient in the country against FBS teams.

This isnt a jab at HCDB its to continue to point out that the bad offense has contributed to the woodshed beatings as well as the indefensible defense despite all of the "record-setting" numbers I am told about after each loss.

There's a bigger purpose to the record setting numbers.

 

[CousCuse]

A lot of you video game guys are moving the goalposts . The fans were led to believe that if Shafer was replaced with a competent coach , all our problems would be solved and we would surely be going to a bowl , maybe a bigger bowl . Now your saying we lack talent to compete and that is Scott's fault . If only Shafer was bright enough to realize that we would have a better team if he recruited better players , what a dope . Now we should be patient , OK , great . I like Dino as much as Scott , but the expectations are already baked in the cake the way the last coach was treated and what was said about a quick return to success under Babers . That is where things are at and it is not a really a very solid position .

 

[OttoinGrotto]

A lot of you video game guys are moving the goalposts . The fans were led to believe that if Shafer was replaced with a competent coach , all our problems would be solved and we would surely be going to a bowl , maybe a bigger bowl . Now your saying we lack talent to compete and that is Scott's fault . If only Shafer was bright enough to realize that we would have a better team if he recruited better players , what a dope . Now we should be patient , OK , great . I like Dino as much as Scott , but the expectations are already baked in the cake the way the last coach was treated and what was said about a quick return to success under Babers . That is where things are at and it is not a really a very solid position .

I still think we make a bowl. But I'm also forgiving if we don't because our secondary is a mash unit and powerhouse highschool teams have more experienced defensive ends than we do.

 

[Ish88888]

I think that too much is being made over our shortcomings on defense. We're 3 games into a very new system. 1) the sample size is way too small to say if it will work or not, 2) the players are still learning it, so stupid mistakes will happen, 3) the players weren't recruited for this system, so they don't have the right strengths to make it work well, and 4) we weren't very good on defense last year, so expecting us to be good on defense this year is nuts.

Also, we have an offense that keeps the defense on the field, so good defenses will look average, average defenses will look bad, and so on.

Just like it's too early to say the offense is a success, it's too early to say that the defense is a failure.

I think the players have actually adapted quicker than this staff thought they would. Dino is in the big leagues now and yesterday he was exposed a bit. The players are fine and getting the system. At moments he needs to protect his subpar defense and punt and make the opposition go the length of the field (the 4th down call up 17-7). Also, after beautifully game planning and establishing the inside run, we failed to use play action and go up top, go for the jugular up 17-0. At this level its a a few plays that can make a difference.

 

[DoctorBombay]

A lot of you video game guys are moving the goalposts . The fans were led to believe that if Shafer was replaced with a competent coach , all our problems would be solved and we would surely be going to a bowl , maybe a bigger bowl . Now your saying we lack talent to compete and that is Scott's fault . If only Shafer was bright enough to realize that we would have a better team if he recruited better players , what a dope . Now we should be patient , OK , great . I like Dino as much as Scott , but the expectations are already baked in the cake the way the last coach was treated and what was said about a quick return to success under Babers. That is where things are at and it is not a really a very solid position .

And there it is. 3 games in and those who had an issue with "the way the last coach was treated", are now laying in wait for every hiccup experienced by our new HC.
I just don't understand the negativity of living in the past, regardless of how you felt about HCSS. And for the record, I would've had NO PROBLEM if HCSS was given another year, but I also believe Babers will prove to be a massive upgrade. JMHO
People need to get over it already. We all want the same things, success for the program. To expect immediate results vs the 2 teams we've played...one which is now a fav to be in the CFP and ranked in the top 3, is borderline moronic, IMO.
Whoever had expectations that this would be easy, was sadly mistaken and in deep delusion. Anyone with half a modicum of sanity realizes 3 games does not a HC'ing tenure make. Our whiniest, bitchiest, "fans" need to grow up already. Its pathetic to watch.
:vomit:

 

[OttoinGrotto]

And there it is. 3 games in and those who had an issue with "the way the last coach was treated", are now laying in wait for every hiccup experienced by our new HC.
I just don't understand the negativity of living in the past, regardless of how you felt about HCSS. And for the record, I would've had NO PROBLEM if HCSS was given another year, but I also believe Babers will prove to be a massive upgrade. JMHO
People need to get over it already. We all want the same things, success for the program. To expect immediate results vs the 2 teams we've played...one which is now a fav to be in the CFP and ranked in the top 3, is borderline moronic, IMO.
Whoever had expectations that this would be easy, was sadly mistaken and in deep delusion. Anyone with half a modicum of sanity realizes 3 games does not a HC'ing tenure make. Our whiniest, bitchiest, "fans" need to grow up already. Its pathetic to watch.
:vomit:

I think people forget that Shafer took this season off.

Can you imagine where we'd be if we retained him and he needed that time?

 

[CousCuse]

And there it is. 3 games in and those who had an issue with "the way the last coach was treated", are now laying in wait for every hiccup experienced by our new HC.
I just don't understand the negativity of living in the past, regardless of how you felt about HCSS. And for the record, I would've had NO PROBLEM if HCSS was given another year, but I also believe Babers will prove to be a massive upgrade. JMHO
People need to get over it already. We all want the same things, success for the program. To expect immediate results vs the 2 teams we've played...one which is now a fav to be in the CFP and ranked in the top 3, is borderline moronic, IMO.
Whoever had expectations that this would be easy, was sadly mistaken and in deep delusion. Anyone with half a modicum of sanity realizes 3 games does not a HC'ing tenure make. Our whiniest, bitchiest, "fans" need to grow up already. Its pathetic to watch.
:vomit:

I don't expect immediate results , i have been trying to say that for some time only to get wack a moled by a group of people who think you wave a wand over our team and we become great . People who have led the fan base at large to believe the last coach was a bumbler and replacing him would be a quick fix . I have watched college football for a longtime and know that it is very difficult to right a wayward ship . I remember when Dan Hawkins , the guy that created the Boise State mystique , got the job at Colorado . It was a sure thing , can't miss , the best new approach available . He failed and Colorado still stinks . Dino might make , he might not but he certainly ha s some huge expectations on his back .