Villanova has taken our rightful spot as..

[two3zone]

The guy accused the SU coaching staff of "destroying" players.

What is your view on Tyler Roberson with everything you've seen?

 

[SoBeCuse]

exactly. They have been great for two years, (solid for many others), and won an amazing game in the Final last year. Jay Wright is a great dude, who let his kid wear a GMAC jersey to the cuse/nova game in Philly, Gerry's senior year. That said, I don't think they are the dominant eastern power and we are screwed. They are playing at a higher level then us. Remember, they couldn't get Lonny Walker either, and aren't pulling in top 20 talent over us.

If Villanova isn't the dominant eastern power right now then who is?

 

[jr4750]

Who? Our endowment? Who cares...

Helps our AD hire quality coaches and staff. Field competitive teams.

 

[jr4750]

If Villanova isn't the dominant eastern power right now then who is?

Didn't mean to imply they aren't at the top right now, just that I don't think they've passed us and we are never gonna catch up. That and their situation is so much better for long term success than ours. I think being in ACC allows us the resources to be at or near the top with the right system and coaches.

 

[two3zone]

Helps our AD hire quality coaches and staff. Field competitive teams.

They could probably do that with the profit from the past half century or the savings from JBs wage over time.

We turn mediocre, school is extra loaded with money, I don't think it's unfair to say who cares how much we bring in.

 

[jr4750]

They could probably do that with the profit from the past half century or the savings from JBs wage over time.

We turn mediocre, school is extra loaded with money, I don't think it's unfair to say who cares how much we bring in.

I'm with you if you're saying that if we don't reinvest those earnings, we're in trouble. BC is the blueprint for how that can happen.

 

[br801]

I'm with you if you're saying that if we don't reinvest those earnings, we're in trouble. BC is the blueprint for how that can happen.

When was BC ever the blueprint for the kind of athletic success SU has historically enjoyed?

 

[jr4750]

When was BC ever the blueprint for the kind of athletic success SU has historically enjoyed?

No, exact opposite of what I was saying. BC is the blueprint for not reinvesting in your AD, despite added money from the ACC, and thus dying a slow and meaningless death. We were both saying that we hope that doesn't happen at SU. That they actually use the $40 mil or whatever the payouts will be from ACC to keep themselves relevant and continue to have the resources to be a power in the East.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't get how that money can't be used as paydowns on the dome remodel going forward, but what do I know?

 

[br801]

No, exact opposite of what I was saying. BC is the blueprint for not reinvesting in your AD, despite added money from the ACC, and thus dying a slow and meaningless death. We were both saying that we hope that doesn't happen at SU. That they actually use the $40 mil or whatever the payouts will be from ACC to keep themselves relevant and continue to have the resources to be a power in the East.

Ok, I get you now. I just never saw not reinvesting the ACC money as a viable option, as I believe that was one of the main drivers of the move in the first place.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I'm engaged to a Villanova alum who is a huge hoops fan, so maybe I can put a little extra perspective on this.

Nova is a great team that moves the ball around incredibly well, plays great defense (they play a switch heavy defense that requires guards strong enough to temporarily cover the post), and shoots at a high percentage. That said, they have one guy (Bridges) who is the type of player Syracuse would recruit - long and super athletic.

They're definitely taking a step back next year without Hart, but new faces have emerged this year that will help fill the void.

Nova is not competition for Syracuse. They're not competing for the same recruits or operating the same type of program. They're good right now and geographically somewhat close to Cuse. That's the extent of how much Cuse fans should worry about them.

 

[SBU72]

We've tried to do that with a number of guys. Ennis, Malachi, Grant etc. were all supposed to be 3-4 year guys. Throw in the guys that transferred out because they were recruited over with someone that left early and you get our roster. I suppose we need to recruit guys with great skill but lacking in NBA physique, but that isn't the type of guy that fits the zone.

Could be because SU is in a P% conference and when 4 year kid blows up in his 1st or 2nd year, he gets noticed with the national coverage. Villanova flies under the radar in the New BE. BUT, now that they have been Champs and are #1, #1 seed, they may be getting notoriety they don't want. I don't know what underclassman of note they may have, but another long run by them may draw attention of some agents who could begin whispering in certain ears.

 

[jr4750]

Ok, I get you now. I just never saw not reinvesting the ACC money as a viable option, as I believe that was one of the main drivers of the move in the first place.

agreed, although in this thread, and elsewhere some have speculated that SU is still being stingy. The most readily found place has been in the dialogue about Dino wanting additional resources he was promised when hired, and them slowly working towards those goals. There is also the alignment of how spending has been set up throughout TGD's tenure, with tons going towards Olympic sports at the detriment it would seem to football and maybe even basketball. We have been lucky to have JB at a discount ($2mil still sounds good to me) but those days are rapidly closing. I think the fear is that Hopkins fails, and then they won't spend big on a proven coach. That or they will lose the fanbase during that time. Let's just all hope Hop is a huge success and we can move past this blip and forget about it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Could be because SU is in a P% conference and when 4 year kid blows up in his 1st or 2nd year, he gets noticed with the national coverage. Villanova flies under the radar in the New BE. BUT, now that they have been Champs and are #1, #1 seed, they may be getting notoriety they don't want. I don't know what underclassman of note they may have, but another long run by them may draw attention of some agents who could begin whispering in certain ears.

The big east has ZERO projected first round picks the next two years. Even more impressive what they have done. Hart is a projected early second rounder.

 

[jr4750]

The big east has ZERO projected first round picks the next two years. Even more impressive what they have done. Hart is a projected early second rounder.

Nova has got 4 year guys that are solid athletes. They play as a team, and have tons of experience. It's the perfect storm for the NCAA's where you always see the teams with the senior experience, beat the top recruit teams like Duke and Kentucky. In a one game, winner take all situation, having experience can sometimes trump talent.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It'll be interesting if Nova loses in the second round to see the takes turn on a dime.

 

[Zepharus]

You're the kind on non-fan this program would be better off without.

I'll deal with you as the spirit moves me.

You stoop to personal attacks? Nice display of maturity there Townie. I guess discussions that you disagree with shouldn't be had here. I'll remember that before posting next time

 

[OttosBestFriend]

I think as it stands today, other than monetarily, the ACC has not benefited us. Man do I miss the OBE

Yes, it was the switch to the ACC that has hurt this basketball program and DEFINITELY NOT the NCAA infractions.

Nor was it the star point guard who surprised everyone by leaving early - after only one season.

Of course it wasn't the star swingman who had a great four-game tournament run in 2016 and parlayed that into another totally unexpected one-and-done stay on the Hill.

Of course EVERYONE expected DC II to fall apart and PC's eyes to fail him. Any good SU fan should have seen those injuries coming well ahead of time.

Since 2014, SU has had 4 NBA Draft early entrants (Grant, Ennis, McCullough and Richardson) with only ONE of them even kinda/sorta expected before the respective season started (McCullough)

With a roster limited by NCAA sanctions, it's literally impossible to deal with that kind of unexpected turnover - Especially when your #1 center (DC II) is a shell of his former physical self and your backup center (PC) misses an entire season due to injury.

Personally, I feel SU may have just weathered the perfect storm of roster difficulties and STILL went to a Final Four while clearly outgunned.

But you're probably right, 'Cuse would be so much better off in the American with UConn.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

They are a heck of a program. But they will have ups and downs.

We still have the ACC. I think the allure of playing in the ACC and playing Duke, North Carolina, Louisville, Boston College, far outweighs playing in the Big East for a recruit.

You had me until Boston College.

 

[orangenirvana]

Yes, it was the switch to the ACC that has hurt this basketball program and DEFINITELY NOT the NCAA infractions.

Nor was it the star point guard who surprised everyone by leaving early - after only one season.

Of course it wasn't the star swingman who had a great four-game tournament run in 2016 and parlayed that into another totally unexpected one-and-done stay on the Hill.

Of course EVERYONE expected DC II to fall apart and PC's eyes to fail him. Any good SU fan should have seen those injuries coming well ahead of time.

Since 2014, SU has had 4 NBA Draft early entrants (Grant, Ennis, McCullough and Richardson) with only ONE of them even kinda/sorta expected before the respective season started (McCullough)

With a roster limited by NCAA sanctions, it's literally impossible to deal with that kind of unexpected turnover - Especially when your #1 center (DC II) is a shell of his former physical self and your backup center (PC) misses an entire season due to injury.

Personally, I feel SU may have just weathered the perfect storm of roster difficulties and STILL went to a Final Four while clearly outgunned.

But you're probably right, 'Cuse would be so much better off in the American with UConn.

This is a great post and understated. I get on the assistant coaching staff for recent recruiting failures but when your most valuable players leave the program long before they were expected to and you're not a Kentucky or Duke then it's going to hurt. That's a fact. And it has hurt. That's not an excuse, nor is it the only reason for recent struggles. There have been too many recruiting misses and players who failed to develop. But it's a significant factor.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

This is a great post and understated. I get on the assistant coaching staff for recent recruiting failures but when your most valuable players leave the program long before they were expected to and you're not a Kentucky or Duke then it's going to hurt. That's a fact. And it has hurt. That's not an excuse, nor is it the only reason for recent struggles. There have been too many recruiting misses and players who failed to develop. But it's a significant factor.

The misses are exacerbated by the limited roster size.

In the 1980s and 1990s through the mid Aughts, 'Cuse could afford to miss because they had a full roster - And stars stayed 3-4 years (save Carmelo)

Michael Brown, Derek Brower, Earl Duncan, Keith Hughes, Herman Harried, Tony Scott, Anthony Harris, Winfred Walton, Bobby Lazor and so many others were all bigtime recruits who "missed" Orange stardom for a variety of reasons, but it didn't hurt the program because there were 12 other guys on the roster.

Then there were the total recruiting flops like Sam Spann, LaSean Howard, James Theus, David Patrick, Josh Wright and Tiki Mayben. Again, their shortcomings were overcome because of a full roster.

With a shortened roster, it's exponentially more difficult to make it through a miss. Thankfully, there's a light at the end of that tunnel.

 

[Townie72]

What is your view on Tyler Roberson with everything you've seen?

Is this where you want to psychoanalyze TR and come up with all sorts of flaky stories about his psyche and how JB damaged it?

All of which you were able to divine by watching TV and reading newspaper reports?

I wonder if you are able to grasp just how ridiculous that is?

 

[Townie72]

You stoop to personal attacks? Nice display of maturity there Townie. I guess discussions that you disagree with shouldn't be had here. I'll remember that before posting next time

I was responding to your post in which you wrote, "Maybe not destroying them either.."

Do you understand how offensive and inflamatory a statement that is?

And your feelings are hurt because I took you to task on that?

You must subscribe to the "I can say anything I want no matter how offensive and I can't be challenged on it".

Suggesting that the SU coaching staff has been "destroying" players is probably the worst attack I have seen.

There are all kinds of fans, I guess. But I cannot imagine that anyone who believes the coaching staff is "destroying players' can consider themselves a fan of the program.

I'm reminded of the saying, "With friends like these, you don't need enemies".

 

[two3zone]

Is this where you want to psychoanalyze TR and come up with all sorts of flaky stories about his psyche and how JB damaged it?

All of which you were able to divine by watching TV and reading newspaper reports?

I wonder if you are able to grasp just how ridiculous that is?

No this is where I ask you a question where you don't answer because you can't defend him and look like a human being.

 

[OrangePA]

And the school and the location. While primarily a pro-sports town, Philly is college basketball friendly and the newspaper and TV coverage are pretty good. And the Philly isn't NYC, bit neither is it Syracuse in terms of entertainment, weather, etc.

I think the style of the coach and the culture of the Nova program are the predominant factors.

You're right. Philadelphia is a professional sports town.

College BB is covered, of course, but it's small potatoes in our community. If a kid wants major league media coverage, he should play for Syracuse University.