What I'm hearing

[CousCuse]

CousCuse theory of Hopkins situation at UW: The people who control the recruiting of Seattle talent don't want Hop at UW. The top talent from there all left and that was after Hop won COY twice in the PAC12. Maybe he gave spots to east coast guys who they thought were for their guys, plausible. The dawgpound article was a hit job to further weaken his position.

 

[dollarbill44]

One reason for keeping it in the family is that it gives you some confidence that the person you give the reigns to isn't using the opportunity to build his resume so that he can move to the next higher paying opportunity as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

Which, should be a consideration, but not near the top of the list, imo.

 

[SU94]

If the candidates are Hopkins, Autry, GMac.
It should be Autry all day long.
He is the only one who hasn’t been with just JB as his boss.

Hopkins has shown what he is. Solid but will fall back on the zone.
GMac isn’t even getting interviews for jobs he has been interested in.
Autry worked elsewhere before coming back and may actually try stuff that JB doesn’t use.

I think we are completely neglecting the chance the next hire may fail which is why hiring an alum isn’t appealing unless it was somebody like Jason Hart who gives off the ability to be optimistic and has upside.

The last 3 years have taken some shine away from Hop.

Hop is going to be our version of Jay Wright. Go look at his record at Hofstra. It was not all cake and roses.
In fact, go look at Coach K at Army. Makes you shudder.

You're overthinking this (too much zone ... not coaching for anyone but JAB) and putting WAY, WAY too much stock in recent output.

Hop is a fit. Pure and simple.

 

[RF2044]

I'm not in the corner of bringing Hop back. But for those that say 'no way, he's proven he can't coach'...

From 1991 - 1995 Bill Belichick coached the Cleveland Browns to a 37-45 record. For 4 of those years his DC was Nick Saban. Just saying that record does not always tell you much about the quality of the coaching.

Point taken.

But let's also acknowledge that that's the most egregious outlier example of a head coach failing, then bouncing back. It's the exception, by many orders of magnitude.

 

[RF2044]

Hop is going to be our version of Jay Wright. Go look at his record at Hofstra. It was not all cake and roses.
In fact, go look at Coach K at Army. Makes you shudder.

You're overthinking this (too much zone ... not coaching for anyone but JAB) and putting WAY, WAY too much stock in recent output.

Hop is a fit. Pure and simple.

I suggest you take a look at that article, then way back in. Not challenging your position, inviting you to review some data that paints an alternative picture to what your suggesting.

 

[Alsacs]

Hop is going to be our version of Jay Wright. Go look at his record at Hofstra. It was not all cake and roses.
In fact, go look at Coach K at Army. Makes you shudder.

You're overthinking this (too much zone ... not coaching for anyone but JAB) and putting WAY, WAY too much stock in recent output.

Hop is a fit. Pure and simple.

Hofstra and Army aren’t Washington.

Washington is a job you can get to the Final Four at.

Seattle has talent.

If Hop was making the tournament more than missing it I would agree. In the end I wouldn’t be upset if he is the next HC.

I just don’t like the idea Hop, Red, GMac is the pool.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Hop is going to be our version of Jay Wright. Go look at his record at Hofstra. It was not all cake and roses.
In fact, go look at Coach K at Army. Makes you shudder.

You're overthinking this (too much zone ... not coaching for anyone but JAB) and putting WAY, WAY too much stock in recent output.

Hop is a fit. Pure and simple.

well I dont personally know Hop...I dont have insider info...I dont really know all of the behind the scenes info that could mitigate how Hops record as a head coach is very poor. I suppose it is possible that he is amazing. That he is indeed the next Jay Wright. and that the reason he has flailed at UW is sabotage, bad luck etc...things out of his control.

In terms of publicly available info - just going off what is out there - team records as a coach, ncaa success, player development, etc - it doesnt look good. it looks horrible.

But I could be wrong.

I could be operating off of false assumptions and thinking using incomplete data...I fully acknowledge that.

Its possible but unlikely.

 

[OrangeDW]

Point taken.

But let's also acknowledge that that's the most egregious outlier example of a head coach failing, then bouncing back. It's the exception, by many orders of magnitude.

Also doesn’t include the context of the ‘90 Browns being one of the worst teams in football the year before he took over as coach, and the ‘95 Browns season being absolutely torpedoed by the mid season news of the Baltimore move.

 

[cuseincincy]

Also doesn’t include the context of the ‘90 Browns being one of the worst teams in football the year before he took over as coach, and the ‘95 Browns season being absolutely torpedoed by the mid season news of the Baltimore move.

All true. But it doesn't change the fact that the most successful head coach in the history of the NFL and the most successful head coach in the history of college football coached together for 4 seasons, and were not successful. Reasons don't change facts.
I'm not sure there is a sure fire "guaranteed" right choice. Short of Jay Wright (not happening) I can't really think of anyone that would be a sure-fire success. I just hope ADJW makes a good choice. Who knows, Red could be twice the head coach Shaheen Holloway is, or not.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If Hop is offered, I don’t see how there’s any way he turns it down. IMHO. He could use a restart. And he’d do better on the East Coast.

You don't offer unless he has accepted through a 3rd party.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

They can’t announce if Hop has his current job.

 

[orangenauburn]

Hop should be the break glass in case of emergency and the national search isn’t fruitful candidate.

Jason Hart is much more appealing if he would be interested. He links to the past while not be attached to the status quo.

Hop has shown at Washington he is going to go zone an overwhelming majority of the time.
He would be a safer choice than a current assistant but i really hope Wildhack understands the situation.

I love Hart but I think he is a future NBA coach.

I think Blackwell has shown to be a very good coach at the high school level. Would love to see him get in at Lemoyne and see how'd he do.

 

[CousCuse]

I love Hart but I think he is a future NBA coach.

I think Blackwell has shown to be a very good coach at the high school level. Would love to see him get in at Lemoyne and see how'd he do.

He would be a great choice for UAlbany.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Red would be a great choice for UAlbany.

FIFY

 

[whobut03]

I love Hart but I think he is a future NBA coach.

I think Blackwell has shown to be a very good coach at the high school level. Would love to see him get in at Lemoyne and see how'd he do.

Blackwell wanted the head job at Lemoyne when it opened up. BADLY.

 

[orangenauburn]

Blackwell wanted the head job at Lemoyne when it opened up. BADLY.

I think he'd kill it if given the opportunity

 

[SU94]

Point taken.

But let's also acknowledge that that's the most egregious outlier example of a head coach failing, then bouncing back. It's the exception, by many orders of magnitude.

Bruce Bochy, Marv Levy, Joe Torre, Jim Calhoun, Pete Carroll, Terry Francona. There are more. This list took about 5-6 minutes of thought. All had various levels of struggle in previous jobs before becoming HOF-esk managers or head coaches.

The Roy Williams/Kansas scenario is largely a unicorn.

 

[TheCusian]

Are you honestly suggesting that you don't recognize that running a p5 college basketball program involves more than just recruiting?

Being a good recruiter should be a minimum threshold check the box criteria, not the one and only qualification.

And yet not everyone is a great recruiter. It’s like they are competing against each other and only some can be great.

In basketball talent trumps just about all other considerations. Get the players, do the other things well enough to support, get out of the way.

 

[TheCusian]

People would freak out if a candidate was considered who had Hopkins resume, if he were submitted as of blind resume.

Are you suggesting familiarity, trust, and a decade long interview shouldn’t impact the decision?

 

[RF2044]

And yet not everyone is a great recruiter. It’s like they are competing against each other and only some can be great.

In basketball talent trumps just about all other considerations. Get the players, do the other things well enough to support, get out of the way.

And if he sucks in every other aspect, as evidenced by the non-subjective evaluative criteria, it won't matter.

But let's oversimplify it to just "RECRUITING!," and pretend that he isn't sticking the joint up @ UW.

Problem is, that article debunks that dramatically oversimplified view, and objectively paints a different picture using data. What if he just isn't that good of a coach? Because that's what the data supports.

 

[RF2044]

Are you suggesting familiarity, trust, and a decade long interview shouldn’t impact the decision?

I'm suggesting that shitty job performance and an awful track record on the job should impact the decision -- not a bunch of subjective, wishful thinking BS because he played here.

As stated above, there is a vast difference between the fantasy land version of Mike Hopkins that some want to believe in and what's the reality of his coaching capabilities. Sucks, because he's a great guy -- but he just isn't that good of a coach, as the performance bears out.

 

[orangecuse]

I'm not in the corner of bringing Hop back. But for those that say 'no way, he's proven he can't coach'...

From 1991 - 1995 Bill Belichick coached the Cleveland Browns to a 37-45 record. For 4 of those years his DC was Nick Saban. Just saying that record does not always tell you much about the quality of the coaching.

In my opinion, the argument you're attempting to make is rather weak, and not convincing.

As a lifelong Cleveland Browns fan, I wouldn't insinuate that Belichick floundered, etc. at his first gig. Prior to Belichick getting to Cleveland, the Browns came off a dismal 3-13 record. After his first season, he had back to back 7-9 seasons in a division where the Steelers and Houston Oilers were playoff teams. As many folks who follow the NFL closely realize, there's not much difference between a 7-9 team v. a 9-7 one, or a 6-10 team v. a 10-6 one. A play here, a fumble there, a missed call/bad call in critical moments, specific/crucial injuries to key players, etc.

In his 4th season, Belichick had the Browns at 11-5 and in the playoffs. They won their first playoff game that year as well. Prior to that '94 playoff season, the Browns hadn't been in the playoffs since '89. After that '94 season, the Browns have only been to the playoffs twice, in '02 and last year.

Unlike Hop (third straight season missing the Dance) Belichick had the Browns headed in the right direction each year he was there prior to '95. Prior to that '95 season, many prognosticators predicted the Browns to make the Superbowl that year. Well, once wind got caught about that dirtbag Modell moving the team to Baltimore, and it became formally announced in early November of that year, it was practically impossible for the coaches, players, the city of Cleveland and its huge metro area to focus on the actual games. It was, and still to this day a complete nightmare.

 

[RF2044]

Bruce Bochy, Marv Levy, Joe Torre, Jim Calhoun, Pete Carroll, Terry Francona. There are more. This list took about 5-6 minutes of thought. All had various levels of struggle in previous jobs before becoming HOF-ESB managers or head coaches.

The Roy Williams/Kansas scenario is largely a unicorn.

Good for you for coming up with a few other outliers.

Doesn't change the fact that the Belichick example is overused and not especially compelling -- because it is the grand-daddy of all outliers. To a far greater extent than Roy Williams is.

Replacing a legend isn't easy. Want to know the way to ensure that the successor will fail? By artificially constraining your choices to a bunch of inadequate candidates, instead of seeking to hire the best, most qualified replacement you can.

That article ought to be required reading for Hopkins enthusiasts who have nothing to go on beyond blind, misguided faith. Sorry that it strongly pokes holes in the case for the horse you're backing.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Strange question, but is Hart a “Syracuse Guy?”

(Perhaps I need to clarify… is he a Syracuse guy in the sense that does he stay connected with the program? I saw the post here that he reached out to Felisha Legette after I posted this… Does he stay in contact with JB? Does he ever show up at SU away games? Obviously Hart had a solid SU career, and a real good NBA career as a journeyman largely by out working everyone else. I know he’s a motivated guy. But does he see himself as an SU guy?)

Devo had a podcast with him well over a year ago. Those podcasts are excellent. I think both of them must believe he’s an SU guy.

 

[cuseinseattle]

CousCuse theory of Hopkins situation at UW: The people who control the recruiting of Seattle talent don't want Hop at UW. The top talent from there all left and that was after Hop won COY twice in the PAC12. Maybe he gave spots to east coast guys who they thought were for their guys, plausible. The dawgpound article was a hit job to further weaken his position.

The McDaniels family have been bad mouthing him claiming he mishandled jaden. They have two kids in the nba and have many local aau relationships. Jaden was a head case and was not a good player. He couldn't even shoot a jump shot and hop honestly protected him more than he should have which is the irony. Hop has not been here long enough and didn't have good enough relationship to with stand it. It really hurt him recruiting Seattle. He also has crappy assistants which is on him. That is his issue.