What I'm hearing

[Capt. Tuttle]

Wow, alum and Golf Analyst Ryan Burr coming off the top rope on Brent Axes show right

2-3 Zone is dead due to 3pt shooting

Didn't Nova play M2M vs Kansas?

 

[RF2044]

Wow, alum and Golf Analyst Ryan Burr coming off the top rope on Brent Axes show right now.

Cliff Notes
Could be worse next year
Alot of alums are concerned
Tired of being bubblish for 10 years
Easy to negative recruit against JB
2-3 Zone is dead due to 3pt shooting

All reasonable concerns.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Didn't Nova play M2M vs Kansas?

You know what the zone is designed for.
JB has said it over the years, he doesn't believe teams can continue to shoot a high percentage over 40 mins and thats why he believes in it. He was right for a looong time. In 2022 even Colgate can beat the 2-3 by bombing away w 15 3s. That's the reality.

 

[DoctorBombay]

You know what the zone is designed for.
JB has said it over the years, he doesn't believe teams can continue to shoot a high percentage over 40 mins and thats why he believes in it. He was right for a looong time. In 2022 even Colgate can beat the 2-3 by bombing away w 15 3s. That's the reality.

This was true…before Steph Curry Era happened. Now every team has a minimum 6-7 guys who can hit a trey. It’s not a viable strategy to just play zone no matter what. JB needs to be more flexible about this…but he won’t.

 

[kcsu]

Jims no Gumby

 

[Dinkyspond]

Who?

Ryan Burr - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sadly, NBC Sports Network is no more. It was the only sports channel that showed skiing and winter sliding sports in non-Olympic years. i.e., World Cup and world championship events. I'll miss it.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

You know what the zone is designed for.
JB has said it over the years, he doesn't believe teams can continue to shoot a high percentage over 40 mins and thats why he believes in it. He was right for a looong time. In 2022 even Colgate can beat the 2-3 by bombing away w 15 3s. That's the reality.

The point is that teams can and do make just as many 3's against M2M. It's not the defense, it's how it's played.

 

[Niastri]

You know what the zone is designed for.
JB has said it over the years, he doesn't believe teams can continue to shoot a high percentage over 40 mins and thats why he believes in it. He was right for a looong time. In 2022 even Colgate can beat the 2-3 by bombing away w 15 3s. That's the reality.

You can win giving up 15 threes. We've done it dozens of times. But it can't be combined with giving up 15 layups like against Colgate this year. (Edit: Colgate made 18 threes and 14 twos and crushed us on the boards)

Our best defenses make it impossible to do anything inside AND threaten the 3 point shooter adequately AND make it hard to pass the ball because of the threat of deflections/steals AND trap aggressively if you pass to about 1/3 of the offensive zone.

Our best defenses forced you to shoot contested threes because you couldn't do anything else. Our Andy Rautins/Wes Johnson led defense of '09/'10 had all seven rotation guys with .9 steals a game or more. Andy and Wes combined for 3.7.

Our defense this year did only one of these things kind of well.

 

[rrlbees]

The point is that teams can and do make just as many 3's against M2M. It's not the defense, it's how it's played.

Anyone know 3pt shooting percentage for the ncaa this past season? Since they moved the line back a few years ago percentages had gone down to historical lows.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The point is that teams can and do make just as many 3's against M2M. It's not the defense, it's how it's played.

312 other schools in division 1 disagree with you.

 

[rrlbees]

312 other schools in division 1 disagree with you.

KenPom along with someone else did a study on that. Specifically to 3 pt shooting percentage it was almost exactly the same vs both defenses. The difference was .1%. But there’s many other factors involved when it comes to defense and not just 3pt shooting defense.

 

[orangenauburn]

Sadly, NBC Sports Network is no more. It was the only sports channel that showed skiing and winter sliding sports in non-Olympic years. i.e., World Cup and world championship events. I'll miss it.

Those events are on peacock

 

[kingtidge]

Sadly, NBC Sports Network is no more. It was the only sports channel that showed skiing and winter sliding sports in non-Olympic years. i.e., World Cup and world championship events. I'll miss it.

You must not get the Olympic Channel? They air lots of world cup skiing events.

Curling World Championships are on now... Sadly the US lost to the Canucks yesterday in the semis. Canada v. Sweden is the final today I believe. I love watching curling...

 

[ClamOtto]

KenPom along with someone else did a study on that. Specifically to 3 pt shooting percentage it was almost exactly the same vs both defenses. The difference was .1%. But there’s many other factors involved when it comes to defense and not just 3pt shooting defense.

Right - the point isn't zone vs. M2M, it's that you should be able to play both, and mix and match to to suit the opponent, the situation, your personnel, etc. Almost every other team in the country has multiple defensive looks they can throw out there. Some work better than others, but just changing things up can provide at least a temporary advantage. There's nothing wrong with zone as a base defense as long as you can switch out of it when the other team is too comfortable, or when you don't have the right personnel for maximum effectiveness.

 

[Niastri]

Right - the point isn't zone vs. M2M, it's that you should be able to play both, and mix and match to to suit the opponent, the situation, your personnel, etc. Almost every other team in the country has multiple defensive looks they can throw out there. Some work better than others, but just changing things up can provide at least a temporary advantage. There's nothing wrong with zone as a base defense as long as you can switch out of it when the other team is too comfortable, or when you don't have the right personnel for maximum effectiveness.

If last year is any indication, JB is going to use tweaks to the zone for when the other team gets too comfortable.

Switching to the 1-1-3 with Buddy in the paint caused some teams real difficulty. With higher quality defenders, this could be a new way to disrupt offenses without man to man.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Right - the point isn't zone vs. M2M, it's that you should be able to play both, and mix and match to to suit the opponent, the situation, your personnel, etc. Almost every other team in the country has multiple defensive looks they can throw out there. Some work better than others, but just changing things up can provide at least a temporary advantage. There's nothing wrong with zone as a base defense as long as you can switch out of it when the other team is too comfortable, or when you don't have the right personnel for maximum effectiveness.

Been said many times but I’ll repeat. In college basketball, the rules limit you to a strict maximum hours of practice per week. In what is an innovative approach, JB looked at that and said “If I concentrate on a single defense, I can squeeze the very most out of the limited practice hours.” That way his game strategy (playing zone) is synchronized with his allocation of practice time (teaching zone). This should make sense to anyone with a brain.

Now, we can disagree about the strategy of having your primary defense being zone, but within that strategy he is doing exactly the right thing. You can choose to have your primary defense be as best as it can be or you can choose to have two or more defenses that are less effective than they could be.

Other teams do switch defenses but their zones are mostly gimmick zones. I’m sure we will find that most teams essentially utilize a similar approach (playing a primary defense 90%+ of the time) and maybe they benefit from the fact that their players already have the basics of man defense down so they have some more margin to play with in practice.

But overall, what JB does is based on logic. It is easy and fun to act like he’s this bumbling moron that doesn’t understand the modern game but give me a break. Use some critical thinking. The zone was terrible this year, look at our personnel, a man defense wasn’t going to suddenly solve that problem. The zone when played correctly with appropriate personnel is just as effective as any man defense, we’ve seen that.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Been said many times but I’ll repeat. In college basketball, the rules limit you to a strict maximum hours of practice per week. In what is an innovative approach, JB looked at that and said “If I concentrate on a single defense, I can squeeze the very most out of the limited practice hours.” That way his game strategy (playing zone) is synchronized with his allocation of practice time (teaching zone). This should make sense to anyone with a brain.

Now, we can disagree about the strategy of having your primary defense being zone, but within that strategy he is doing exactly the right thing. You can choose to have your primary defense be as best as it can be or you can choose to have two or more defenses that are less effective than they could be.

Other teams do switch defenses but their zones are mostly gimmick zones. I’m sure we will find that most teams essentially utilize a similar approach and maybe they benefit from the fact that their players already have the basics of man defense down so they have some more margin to play with in practice.

But overall, what JB does is based on logic. It is easy and fun to act like he’s this bumbling moron that doesn’t understand the modern game but give me a break. Use some critical thinking. The zone was terrible this year, look at our personnel, a man defense wasn’t going to suddenly solve that problem. The zone when played correctly with appropriate personnel is just as effective as any man defense, we’ve seen that.

Logic based on players he had 10 years ago facing players from 20 years ago.

 

[Dinkyspond]

You must not get the Olympic Channel? They air lots of world cup skiing events.

Curling World Championships are on now... Sadly the US lost to the Canucks yesterday in the semis. Canada v. Sweden is the final today I believe. I love watching curling...

I gotta pay extra for Olympic Channel on DirectTV and I refuse to

 

[miamicuse]

if he tweaks the 2-3 to 1-1-3 he can tweak it to 1-1-1-1-1.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Been said many times but I’ll repeat. In college basketball, the rules limit you to a strict maximum hours of practice per week. In what is an innovative approach, JB looked at that and said “If I concentrate on a single defense, I can squeeze the very most out of the limited practice hours.” That way his game strategy (playing zone) is synchronized with his allocation of practice time (teaching zone). This should make sense to anyone with a brain.

Now, we can disagree about the strategy of having your primary defense being zone, but within that strategy he is doing exactly the right thing. You can choose to have your primary defense be as best as it can be or you can choose to have two or more defenses that are less effective than they could be.

Other teams do switch defenses but their zones are mostly gimmick zones. I’m sure we will find that most teams essentially utilize a similar approach (playing a primary defense 90%+ of the time) and maybe they benefit from the fact that their players already have the basics of man defense down so they have some more margin to play with in practice.

But overall, what JB does is based on logic. It is easy and fun to act like he’s this bumbling moron that doesn’t understand the modern game but give me a break. Use some critical thinking. The zone was terrible this year, look at our personnel, a man defense wasn’t going to suddenly solve that problem. The zone when played correctly with appropriate personnel is just as effective as any man defense, we’ve seen that.

good post, overall.

my quibble is that his assessment of his personnel ** cough, cough** his sons, was just off...the entire team was too slow to properly rotate in the zone BUT they were very very tall as a team...one of the tallest in the country. That height advantage couldve and sholdve been used to better effect in terms of defense. he made a little adjustment - the 1-1-3 and it worked wonders...why no other wrinkles??? jesse joe buddy and jimmy all had AMPLE time with JB to make any defense possible...if there was a benefit to having his sons around...it shouldve been that he was was capable of playing any scheme...but no.

your idea that we should look at the personnel ...shoud be directed at the coach and his staff first and foremost. I'm not convinced that the defense couldnt have been a lot better than it was this season under a different scheme. in fact, im almost sure it couldve been despite the deficienices in some of the players defensively.

JB does indeed use logic and the way youve spelled out his approach makes a ton of sense...but he needs to be ready to realize that it simply wont work, scrap it and come up with something else when the case may call for it. The defense was indeed okay by the end of the season, which may seem redeeming of JBs appraoac, but by the end of the season the results were irrelevant...so he needs to be able to switch styles mid-season in the future even if he knows that they will get there by march...sometimes thats just not enough.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Logic based on players he had 10 years ago facing players from 20 years ago.

That’s a lazy response. I understand the players he selects for this team was part of the problem. That is on him of course but wasn’t the point I was discussing. I will also say that given the new world of every player being a single year player, a more unique defense (or offense for that matter) may not be best. You just don’t have time to develop players like in the past. You definitely don’t have time to develop team strategies because the turnover is so high. That and the perception recruits might have about zone are compelling reasons to drop zone defense.

 

[Cheriehoop]

If last year is any indication, JB is going to use tweaks to the zone for when the other team gets too comfortable.

Switching to the 1-1-3 with Buddy in the paint caused some teams real difficulty. With higher quality defenders, this could be a new way to disrupt offenses without man to man.

He also used a triangle and 2 zone defense which was effective against Duke in the ACC tournament - a game we had neither Jesse nor Buddy. If JB can morph his zones and add even more options, it could really take off and the NBA is always watching - the NBA has been playing more and more zone defense itself.

I tried to link a bleacher report article talking about the increasing use of the zone in the NBA. Coaches like Rick Carlisle, Erik Spolestra and Dwane Casey etc were all quoted how effective it’s been and how much more effective, but difficult and time consuming defense to learn and do correctly than man-to man. He said most NBA teams just use it currently to change things up totally but until they get better at teaching more players all the intricacies, it‘s a slower transition to use more in the NBA. I don’t know why the link won’t work.

 

[007]

He also used a triangle and 2 zone defense which was effective against Duke in the ACC tournament - a game we had neither Jesse nor Buddy. If JB can morph his zones and add even more options, it could really take off and the NBA is always watching - the NBA has been playing more and more zone defense itself.

Adding a press, like the 2-2-1 3/4 court would also make the 2-3 more effective.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

That’s a lazy response.

I disagree. Sometimes it's just that simple. JB needs to be strategizing based on the roster he has, not the roster he wishes he had.

 

[FrancoPizza]

KenPom along with someone else did a study on that. Specifically to 3 pt shooting percentage it was almost exactly the same vs both defenses. The difference was .1%. But there’s many other factors involved when it comes to defense and not just 3pt shooting defense.

Nobody is saying that it boils down to 1 thing. The zone can still serve a purpose to throw teams off, case in point when K switched to it occasionally in the tournament. I don’t get why some still think zone is the only answer when the landscape of the game has changed so much in the last 10 years. It’s not just about length and athleticism any more. If anything freakish intangibles are all the more reason to play a pressure m2m or 2-2-1 press… or at least be willing to use it proactively as matchups dictate.