What I'm hearing

[kcsu]

RF I think that is the reason the decision will be fairly easy for JW to stay in house. You can satisfy the outgoing King Kong, much of the fundraising and boosterdom, alumni, etc and go cheap on the salary (relatively speaking). Since anybody you hire is unlikely to succeed, no real loss in giving Red a shot. If he fails (as just sheer statistics would indicate he will), then you go big with the national search, etc. it’s exactly what Duke and UNC calculated was the right move.

And we have a winner

 

[RF2044]

And we have a winner

Not bothering to try is the dumbest strategy imaginable. Which of course is why JW would never think that way.

If it was Red, why wouldn't this information be made public? Let JB glide toward the finish line, with the head coach and waiting already declared. But instead, nothing announced. Red's kid knows this, and is keeping his options open. All you have to do is read between the lines.

 

[kcsu]

It was the right move for them because they wanted continuity. They wanted stability, and induced case they wanted to continuation / perpetuation of outstanding recruiting.

Our program is in a sustained period of decline. We're not recruiting all that well. Therefore, continuity is not the right move for our program.

And I'll take it one step further, despite this telephone game of everyone hearing it's a done deal with Red, the silence is deafening. If they were going to hire in house, after JB's comments about there being an"ironclad plan" in place for his departure, why wouldn't it be made public?

Answer:. because there is no plan in place. If there were, it would make all the sense in the world to announce it, put that in the rearview mirror, and satisfy all the conditions you've list in your post. But instead, nothing has been disclosed. Want to know why that is? Because the AD isn't planning on hiring from within.

I think that you are a great poster and i would be fine with going outside IF we could land someone like Ed. Otherwise the smart move is to keep it in house. As to not going public with this. Jim is on record hating that he had a public plan with Hop. He couldn't stand the deal he cut to keep his job after the second sanction and when he had his chance, he did what he did. I think that the announcement will come either just before the season or most likely right after it and i do think it will be Red or Hop and that G and Griff will be joined by a great recruiter. The program is going to be fine. If either one of these guys fails, JW will pull the plug and go outside but I truly don't see him doing it after 50 years of success. It would be too big of a slap in the face to JB and all of his supporters.

 

[RF2044]

I think that you are a great poster and i would be fine with going outside IF we could land someone like Ed. Otherwise the smart move is to keep it in house. As to not going public with this. Jim is on record hating that he had a public plan with Hop. He couldn't stand the deal he cut to keep his job after the second sanction and when he had his chance, he did what he did. I think that the announcement will come either just before the season or most likely right after it and i do think it will be Red or Hop and that G and Griff will be joined by a great recruiter. The program is going to be fine. If either one of these guys fails, JW will pull the plug and go outside but I truly don't see him doing it after 50 years of success. It would be too big of a slap in the face to JB and all of his supporters.

JB had a losing record last year. He's running out of rope to go out on his own terms.

JB has also gone to the AD with two succession plans in mind in recent years, and was lightly declined both times. I don't think he has the ability to call his own shot. 10 years ago, he absolutely did. Maybe even 5 years ago. After last season's losing record? I don't think so anymore.

I don't care about 50 years. I care about the 8 years of tremendous decline our program is suffering. You don't make a tiny move to replace a legend with unqualified internal candidates, that no other program has offered a head coaching position to. There is a reason for that.

It's funny how afraid of change some people are.

But happy 4th kcsu.

 

[kcsu]

JB had a losing record last year. He's running out of rope to go out on his own terms.

JB has also gone to the AD with two succession plans in mind in recent years, and was lightly declined both times. I don't think he has the ability to call his own shot. 10 years ago, he absolutely did. Maybe even 5 years ago. After last season's losing record? I don't think so anymore.

I don't care about 50 years. I care about the 8 years of tremendous decline our program is suffering. You don't make a tiny move to replace a legend with unqualified internal candidates, that no other program has offered a head coaching position to. There is a reason for that.

It's funny how afraid of change some people are.

But happy 4th kcsu.

I hear you and agree as long as we can hire a proven coach. ED C i would open the vault for him. East Coast guy with a great reputation and a class act. He would kill it here. IF JW can land a guy like that, I'm 1000% in.
I just don't want some hot shot young kid or carpet bagger who is going to alienate the JB loyalist that just happen to keep the program afloat. Jim has absolutely hung on way to long and Hes a pain in the arse to boot. The thing with his kids was mishandled by him, Hes a complete arse to his players and the press in conferences and his idea of recruiting is to do as little as possible. So yes, I get your points and position. Again. If we can Land a homerun coach fantastic. Anything short of that keep it in house.

 

[HoustonCuse]

RF I’m not saying I necessarily agree with staying in house. I can just see a lot of reasons outside of game results that may move the needle for an AD in this delicate position. Your stat of a 70% failure rate regardless of how hard you try is icing on the cake if you’re an AD worried about balancing all the twirling plates. In the end, none of us make the call, all just speculating.

 

[AZOrange]

Not bothering to try is the dumbest strategy imaginable. Which of course is why JW would never think that way.

If it was Red, why wouldn't this information be made public? Let JB glide toward the finish line, with the head coach and waiting already declared. But instead, nothing announced. Red's kid knows this, and is keeping his options open. All you have to do is read between the lines.

I think we will hear soon

 

[DoctorBombay]

Not bothering to try is the dumbest strategy imaginable. Which of course is why JW would never think that way.

If it was Red, why wouldn't this information be made public? Let JB glide toward the finish line, with the head coach and waiting already declared. But instead, nothing announced. Red's kid knows this, and is keeping his options open. All you have to do is read between the lines.

I think “nothing’s announced” because JB has not tipped his hand yet. I think JW’s in limbo like the rest of us, and out of respect to the HOF’er, he’s keeping his powder dry.
That being said, for a myriad of reasons I see this staying in-house w/ Red.
If we’re talking and preaching “family” and all that crap, i doubt JW kicks Red to the curb and brings in an outsider. Just don’t see that, under any circumstances. JMHO

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Ding, ding, ding.

It would make zero sense not to announce it, to prevent a bunch of negative recruiting.

And I'll take it one step further. Trey autry's comments about going through the recruiting process, not having an SU offer extended, etc is telling, as well.

You don't think they would negatively recruit against Red or GMac? Hop was a hot young coach, associated with k and the Olympic team. Our current bench guys... meh. (To date)

 

[Briancuse]

Is there anything Syracuse can do to avoid being left out?

Keep improving the brand. If people believe doomsday is coming and the sec and big 10 will pull a hostile takeover.

 

[Syracuslove]

JW should be on the phone to the Big 10. The east division: PSU, RU, MD, SU, BC, Pitt.

If they pitch that idea of coming with BC and Pitt, they’ll get laughed out of the room

 

[Syracuslove]

Is there anything Syracuse can do to avoid being left out?

The best option is try to get into the Big 10, though I seriously doubt that happening given the Big 10 can bring in virtually any school they want outside of the SEC and a couple others like Notre Dame. The more realistic option is definitely the Big East and football independent. I think we’d certainly be on their short-list among teams not likely to be able to get into another conference. I wonder if there’s any bad blood there though from the last realignment. For us, I don’t think it’d be too bad if anything. For Pitt and BC, that’s another story lol.

That being said I do doubt if our guys are ready to completely ditch football. Hopefully the ACC can stay together for the most part and shift to a more basketball oriented conference once Clemson, Miami and FSU leave, which I think is only a matter of time.

 

[MikeSU02]

For those that are fine with Red (or GMac) without a national search, do you feel that the only impediment to us lifting out of these past 7-8 years of so-so play is JB?

Is the cause of our downturn (relative to our prolonged success to JB's credit) actually JB and Red will take us to a level or two up once JB steps away?

I've been super hard on JB lately, both in coaching decisions and program decisions, but to be fair to JB, Red, GMac, Griff and the rest of the support staff have jobs to do as well.

What are people thinking in terms of ownership of the decline we've had (and, again, relative to our sustained success over decades)? Is it 80% JB and 20% others? Some other cut?

If Red gets the gig, I'll root like all get out for him, but he has to own at least some of this downturn, no?

The college athletics world just had another seismic shift that isn't done. There is no wiggle room here to not get this right. We need to land on our feet for bball.

 

[Syracuslove]

For those that are fine with Red (or GMac) without a national search, do you feel that the only impediment to us lifting out of these past 7-8 years of so-so play is JB?

Is the cause of our downturn (relative to our prolonged success to JB's credit) actually JB and Red will take us to a level or two up once JB steps away?

I've been super hard on JB lately, both in coaching decisions and program decisions, but to be fair to JB, Red, GMac, Griff and the rest of the support staff have jobs to do as well.

What are people thinking in terms of ownership of the decline we've had (and, again, relative to our sustained success over decades)? Is it 80% JB and 20% others? Some other cut?

If Red gets the gig, I'll root like all get out for him, but he has to own at least some of this downturn, no?

The college athletics world just had another seismic shift that isn't done. There is no wiggle room here to not get this right. We need to land on our feet for bball.

If a head coach gets the majority of the credit for winning, he should also get the credit for losing. If the assistants aren’t good, that really should be on JB as well for not surrounding himself with the right people.

Perhaps Red can be a little more self aware of himself, what he may be lacking and what the program needs. An assistant really has no direct control of that, moreso just can sway the HC. But JB also seems the hard-headed type that may be immune to advice sometimes

 

[AZOrange]

For those that are fine with Red (or GMac) without a national search, do you feel that the only impediment to us lifting out of these past 7-8 years of so-so play is JB?

Is the cause of our downturn (relative to our prolonged success to JB's credit) actually JB and Red will take us to a level or two up once JB steps away?

I've been super hard on JB lately, both in coaching decisions and program decisions, but to be fair to JB, Red, GMac, Griff and the rest of the support staff have jobs to do as well.

What are people thinking in terms of ownership of the decline we've had (and, again, relative to our sustained success over decades)? Is it 80% JB and 20% others? Some other cut?

If Red gets the gig, I'll root like all get out for him, but he has to own at least some of this downturn, no?

The college athletics world just had another seismic shift that isn't done. There is no wiggle room here to not get this right. We need to land on our feet for bball.

The coaching staff is not a democracy

 

[pearl31]

The coaching staff is not a democracy

yeah sure seems like there's been at least an extent of "good soldier" on the part of Red and Griff (and maybe Gmac?) the past few years

 

[hoopsupstate]

Has anyone actually watched Ed Cooley’s offense? I want no part of him. His recruiting is nothing to write home about.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Has anyone actually watched Ed Cooley’s offense? I want no part of him. His recruiting is nothing to write home about.

I'm not a fan interested in Ed Cooley, but it is Providence. Outside of the short Pitino stint and Dave Gavitt years this is the best run Providence has ever had.

 

[MikeSU02]

The coaching staff is not a democracy

To be clear, I would never think that it is, especially with JB. But the assistants still have jobs to do, regardless. I'm not trying to take away from the hierarchy. JB's the HoFer.

I'm just saying, if people are fully backing a set transition to Red, it seems like it's a suspension of any belief that he has materially contributed to our downturn.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Not bothering to try is the dumbest strategy imaginable. Which of course is why JW would never think that way.

If it was Red, why wouldn't this information be made public? Let JB glide toward the finish line, with the head coach and waiting already declared. But instead, nothing announced. Red's kid knows this, and is keeping his options open. All you have to do is read between the lines.

Its not public because it’s unsure if JB will go out this year or next unfortunately. It’s still up in the air. Once he decides, they’ll announce OR this is a play for Hop.

 

[RF2044]

Its not public because it’s unsure if JB will go out this year or next unfortunately. It’s still up in the air. Once he decides, they’ll announce OR this is a play for Hop.

Hop is 100% out of play.

For a variety of reasons.

 

[RF2044]

The coaching staff is not a democracy

Correct. And JB has surrounded himself with yes men.

None of them are bulldog recruiters, they can't seem to get JB to listen which suggests that they lack The assertiveness chops needed, etc

Just some of the many reasons why the in-house candidates are under qualified.

To mikesu2002's question above, I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 to 33% is on the assistant coaches. Even with JB being authoritarian, Hop seem to get it done on the recruiting trail. Can you envision Weaver not bringing in top flight talent?

I get the hope that the guy is on the bench could change things around, but it seems like wishful thinking given the track record of the last 8 years, and what we see unfold in recruiting. Lots of near misses, not enough results -- on and off the court.

 

[longtimefan]

I'm not a fan interested in Ed Cooley, but it is Providence. Outside of the short Pitino stint and Dave Gavitt years this is the best run Providence has ever had.

I'm guessing you aren't old enough to remember Joe Mullaney.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'm guessing you aren't old enough to remember Joe Mullaney.

I’m not, but his record was terrible his second go around and he was replaced by Pitino.

 

[orangefog]

Correct. And JB has surrounded himself with yes men.

None of them are bulldog recruiters, they can't seem to get JB to listen which suggests that they lack The assertiveness chops needed, etc

Just some of the many reasons why the in-house candidates are under qualified.

To mikesu2002's question above, I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 to 33% is on the assistant coaches. Even with JB being authoritarian, Hop seem to get it done on the recruiting trail. Can you envision Weaver not bringing in top flight talent?

I get the hope that the guy is on the bench could change things around, but it seems like wishful thinking given the track record of the last 8 years, and what we see unfold in recruiting. Lots of near misses, not enough results -- on and off the court.

I want our next coach to be able to teach the players to at least inbound the ball.