What I'm hearing

[djorange1989]

Can't we still hope that JW calls JW first. And I don't mean John Wallace or Josh Wright.

you mean this JW?

 

[Cuse#1]

If they go for hopkins as their first choice hire?? Very bland, boring hire imo but no disrespect to hopkins at all but with the potential this program has & we havent even come close to that "the pinnical" of where this program could be.
I think they should go for the home run ,big splash but calculated hire imo. Now if that doesnt work somehow cause money really SHOULD NOT be an issue in the process for basketball but again if not then try hopkins or internally

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I'm confused, too.

JB has two years remaining on his contract? So, if this is his last year, it's going to play as if he's been fired, not just decided to retire a year early, and after saying he's not even near ready to retire. I hope they have the messaging crafted well...

Then, JB is pissed at Mike, and so Mike is 100% out of the picture, but then he's the first call? Which?

I really, really hope JB's grudges aren't determining the next 10-20 years of this program. First it was some petty remark from Oats and now it's Mike?

We don't have an HCiW, because...? Because that didn't work the last time and it might play in the media as "here they go again—let's see how this one blows up?" Or, because JW is just going to wait to see if someone else emerges at the 11th hour? One way or another, this seems like it's being mismanaged, even if it isn't. Which kinda is mismanaging it. I really wish i knew what HS kids are being told. I'm sorta surprised that's not leaking.

We aren't good enough to have a head coach in waiting noone would like that guy even Hop lost stock when he didn't win more during his 2016 stint.

I don't think JB will complain publicly if hes forced out his agent will probably get him a top spot calling games on ESPN within minutes/hours. He might have a kid in the NBA to watch. He outlasted all his peers. It should be fine.

 

[pearl31]

you mean this JW?

underrated halftime speeches from what I've heard

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Not really. They try and are ineffectual. An inability to manage upward effectively is an indicator of their relative limitations as leaders.

I certainly don't disagree that JB is difficult, and has gotten worse with age. But he doesn't listen to them at all. That's... telling.

There's a collective dysfunction around this group that has dragged the program down. That's one of the main reasons that I'm not in favor of hiring from within -- we need new blood / a fresh approach to snap out of the malaise.

The inability to try and rope in JB?! Yikes.
I understand you want to hire someone from the outside but to blame the assistants on the limitations they have and them “dragging the program down”. If we didnt have Red in the recruiting area, the teams we would be putting on the floor would have been even scarier, if that’s even imaginable.

If we had a HC that was fully…yes fully engaged in recruiting with our assistants, our classes would be back to earlier 2010’s. They arent Hop but collectively, they can make some moves. They need the HC engaged and in it too but they dont have that right now

 

[MikeSU02]

Sorry for causing a stir!

My worry is this:
- we are in an extended program downturn
- we are in the midst of seismic change in conferences and TV deals
- JB has had two probations and one transition plan go awry (two if the GMac thing is counted)
- the ironclad plan without public details makes it seem that it may not be on solid footing (jmho)
- pending the way the cards are dealt, we may have a pairing of coaches staying and going.

For something that is “ironclad” in the midst of the college landscape turmoil, this all gives me a lot of worry, especially if we aren’t landing on a search that includes both internal and external candidate.

But I guess I’m just back at square one and will just keep my fingers crossed.

Let’s hope we turn this ship around this year and we have an easier decision to make in a year or two.

 

[dasher]

The inability to try and rope in JB?! Yikes.
I understand you want to hire someone from the outside but to blame the assistants on the limitations they have and them “dragging the program down”. If we didnt have Red in the recruiting area, the teams we would be putting on the floor would have been even scarier, if that’s even imaginable.

If we had a HC that was fully…yes fully engaged in recruiting with our assistants, our classes would be back to earlier 2010’s. They arent Hop but collectively, they can make some moves. They need the HC engaged and in it too but they dont have that right now

Sadly, that is all true. I think Red is a very good recruiter. We don't really know what the other two could do with a fully engaged Head Coach.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Sadly, that is all true. I think Red is a very good recruiter. We don't really know what the other two could do with a fully engaged Head Coach.

Ya I just know how beloved Griff is in NYC alone that I know he could do some damage there but….

 

[kcsu]

I have to agree with you there. Hop left so that he wouldn't have to take the job away from his mentor who made it clear that he didn't want to retire. Hop did nothing wrong. Now, I had serious doubts about him and after seeing him coach, he wouldn't be my first choice. But he did nothing wrong when he left Syracuse.

100% percent.

 

[miamicuse]

Sorry for causing a stir!

My worry is this:
- we are in an extended program downturn
- we are in the midst of seismic change in conferences and TV deals
- JB has had two probations and one transition plan go awry (two if the GMac thing is counted)
- the ironclad plan without public details makes it seem that it may not be on solid footing (jmho)
- pending the way the cards are dealt, we may have a pairing of coaches staying and going.

For something that is “ironclad” in the midst of the college landscape turmoil, this all gives me a lot of worry, especially if we aren’t landing on a search that includes both internal and external candidate.

But I guess I’m just back at square one and will just keep my fingers crossed.

Let’s hope we turn this ship around this year and we have an easier decision to make in a year or two.

I wouldn't put any weight on the ironclad plan being anything definitive.

After he mentioned this "ironclad plan" in that interview, it was widely reported as a "plan to his retirement", "plan to a transition", "plan of a successor"...he clarified that a few days later that this plan is the same plan that's been in place since he turned 50.

 

[miamicuse]

What if the first call to Hop, his phone says "Scam Likely" and Hop doesn't pick up?

 

[007]

I wouldn't put any weight on the ironclad plan being anything definitive.

After he mentioned this "ironclad plan" in that interview, it was widely reported as a "plan to his retirement", "plan to a transition", "plan of a successor"...he clarified that a few days later that this plan is the same plan that's been in place since he turned 50.

If "clarified" = find a way to walk back the ironclad comment and don't talk about this in public again until we are ready to make an official statement, then your version is probably correct.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I wouldn't put any weight on the ironclad plan being anything definitive.

After he mentioned this "ironclad plan" in that interview, it was widely reported as a "plan to his retirement", "plan to a transition", "plan of a successor"...he clarified that a few days later that this plan is the same plan that's been in place since he turned 50.

If he faceplants this season, the ironclad plan will involve torches and pitchforks.

 

[djorange1989]

What if the first call to Hop, his phone says "Scam Likely" and Hop doesn't pick up?

He would pick up because he would think an SEC school was calling him

 

[RF2044]

Ya I just know how beloved Griff is in NYC alone that I know he could do some damage there but….

The inability to try and rope in JB?! Yikes.
I understand you want to hire someone from the outside but to blame the assistants on the limitations they have and them “dragging the program down”. If we didnt have Red in the recruiting area, the teams we would be putting on the floor would have been even scarier, if that’s even imaginable.

If we had a HC that was fully…yes fully engaged in recruiting with our assistants, our classes would be back to earlier 2010’s. They arent Hop but collectively, they can make some moves. They need the HC engaged and in it too but they dont have that right now

Yes, I do attribute some blame to the entire staff. Because collectively, this group of coaches are the architects of the downturn we're experiencing. I'm not scapegoating any of them individually, but I'm not absolving the ACs on the rationalized basis that this is all JB's fault, either.

JB is a HOFer, but he isn't perfect. And a staff is supposed to bring different, ideally complimentary skill sets that make up for the shortcomings of others [example -- Hop being "good cop" to JB's "bad cop" curmudgeon style in the past]. The problem is, I doesn't appear that this staff is optimized from that standpoint. Over a multi-year trend we have evidence to suggest that the AC's neither excel as teachers of the game nor as recruiters.

It would be one thing if the program was underperforming, but we could point to: "Man, but Red is really killing it on the recruiting trail..."

Problem is, he isn't. Ditto Griffin -- I'm sure he's beloved in NYC, but we don't actively recruit NYC [for a variety of reasons, some of which are completely valid].

But there's no empirical evidence to back up these guys being anything more than average recruiters. It's an unsubstantiated belief. Which is why it doesn't carry much weight when I see people express that Red will suddenly light it up on the recruiting trail. Based upon what? It's fine to be hopeful / optimistic, but results matter more.

You're certainly right about one thing -- none of these three guys are on Hop's level as recruiters, based upon his proven track record.

 

[RF2044]

I think we will hear soon

Yeah I’m totally confused here. I think JW sticks to his plan, no additional contract and JB has his swan song this year. Mike is getting the first call from JW. If he takes, GMAC moves up and RED and GRIFF move on. If he doesn’t, next offer is to
RED, in which case Griff moves up and GMAC moves on.

AZ, I know that your sources are impeccable, but to borrow your expression -- I'm totally confused by these two seemingly contradictory posts.

You think we're going to hear... what soon? If JW's "plan" is to call Mike Hopkins first, then what do you expect to hear "soon?" That the HCIW replacing JB is currently the active head coach at another program? Doesn't seem likely, even if that's the plan JW will pursue.

If Red is the fallback / second option as you purport, then what would we "hear soon" on that front? Per your post above, presumably we wouldn't hear anything until after JW sees what Hop has to say when the time comes.

This is what I mean -- a lot of these prospective outcomes being thrown around are logical; I understand why people might believe that these options could come to pass. But when you start to stack up what people are saying, the logic begins to break down.

 

[RF2044]

I disagree about managing up at least in terms of the broad strokes. Honest question but do you manage up to CEO level in your D2D? It’s tough and lots of them are unmanageable.

Honest answer: yes, I work with C-level executives all the time.

I wouldn't expect a rank and file employee far down the org chart to "manage" a CEO, but senior executives who are one level down [like our ACs] and have substantial access to that person at the top -- sure, because that's a big part of their job. Doesn't mean that they'll always get their way, but part of effective leadership is influencing.

 

[orangefog]

Yes, I do attribute some blame to the entire staff. Because collectively, this group of coaches are the architects of the downturn we're experiencing. I'm not scapegoating any of them individually, but I'm not absolving the ACs on the rationalized basis that this is all JB's fault, either.

JB is a HOFer, but he isn't perfect. And a staff is supposed to bring different, ideally complimentary skill sets that make up for the shortcomings of others [example -- Hop being "good cop" to JB's "bad cop" curmudgeon style in the past]. The problem is, I doesn't appear that this staff is optimized from that standpoint. Over a multi-year trend we have evidence to suggest that the AC's neither excel as teachers of the game nor as recruiters.

It would be one thing if the program was underperforming, but we could point to: "Man, but Red is really killing it on the recruiting trail..."

Problem is, he isn't. Ditto Griffin -- I'm sure he's beloved in NYC, but we don't actively recruit NYC [for a variety of reasons, some of which are completely valid].

But there's no empirical evidence to back up these guys being anything more than average recruiters. It's an unsubstantiated belief. Which is why it doesn't carry much weight when I see people express that Red will suddenly light it up on the recruiting trail. Based upon what? It's fine to be hopeful / optimistic, but results matter more.

You're certainly right about one thing -- none of these three guys are on Hop's level as recruiters, based upon his proven track record.

And that is just the recruiting side of it. I haven't seen exceptional results from coaching either. We have seen some development, but not extraordinary. Our teams lack fundamentals. Is JB keeping them from teaching fundamentals?

 

[Goin' Deep]

I can't see how Hop would come back after the "coach in waiting agreement" fell through.
Red would likely be the next coach IF JW wants to select from the bench.
If JW goes outside, he can go get some way above average 34 year old with a sharp mind/reputation
and turn him loose.
IF CUSE GOES 19-14 this year, that would mean in the 3 year period at the end of JB's era CUSE had a winning % of 56%. Regardless if the coach is off the bench OR off the street, where's the pressure?
The next coach has 3 years to bring CUSE B-BALL back to where it belongs...RANKED and RESPECTED.

 

[orangefog]

I can't see how Hop would come back after the "coach in waiting agreement" fell through.
Red would likely be the next coach IF JW wants to select from the bench.
If JW goes outside, he can go get some way above average 34 year old with a sharp mind/reputation
and turn him loose.
IF CUSE GOES 19-14 this year, that would mean in the 3 year period at the end of JB's era CUSE had a winning % of 56%. Regardless if the coach is off the bench OR off the street, where's the pressure?
The next coach has 3 years to bring CUSE B-BALL back to where it belongs...RANKED and RESPECTED.

Based on comments here, if I read them correctly, the agreement didn't technically fall through. Hop left out of respect for JB before JB would have had to leave before he wanted to, to fulfill that agreement.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Based on comments here, if I read them correctly, the agreement didn't technically fall through. Hop left out of respect for JB before JB would have had to leave before he wanted to, to fulfill that agreement.

Agreed. But JB let EVERYONE know he wasn’t ready to retire, plan or no plan. He scuttled the agreement in a passive agressive way, but we all knew what was up. Threw around enough hints, JW/Hop got the picture, and acted accordingly.

 

[Delmar]

you mean this JW?

Boom goes the DYNO-MITE!

 

[Goin' Deep]

I'd say HOP left because JB was going to put up a big stink.
Hop had already waited roughly 5 years and said forgettaboutit when the Washington job
became available.

 

[Ozone!]

If he faceplants this season, the ironclad plan will involve torches and pitchforks.

 

[Orangezoo]

Honest answer: yes, I work with C-level executives all the time.

I wouldn't expect a rank and file employee far down the org chart to "manage" a CEO, but senior executives who are one level down [like our ACs] and have substantial access to that person at the top -- sure, because that's a big part of their job. Doesn't mean that they'll always get their way, but part of effective leadership is influencing.

Yeah this is a key point. It's a hard job to manage up but absolutely a part of the role. You see companies fail at this all the time often triggering leadership changes. Anyone who takes on a senior leadership role needs to be willing to do so as well. Many claim to be and then either fall in line or don't exert their influence directly.