What I'm hearing

[AZOrange]

You're right about one thing -- Wildhack will handle this comprehensively. And as someone who understands advanced metrics, he'll do a better job evaluating Hopkins's performance -- or lack thereof -- at UW beyond "he's an institutional fit." He'll dig into analysis similar to the one presented in that article, and come to the conclusion that Hopkins tenure at UW is ugly, and disqualifies him from contention. And when that happens, I'm sure that there will be plenty of posters who pound their chests about his recruiting chops, and apply all types of subjective rationalization for why Hop would kill it here "...if only he could hire John Beilien to be his bench coach," all of which will run contradictory to the mountain of quantitative, objective data that indicates that he's potentially one of the least effective coaches at the P5 level.

I'm not anti-anyone -- I'm just being intellectually honest about the quality of the in-house candidates, something you and several others appear congenitally incapable of doing.

Because if we hire Hopkins we'll be signing up for the same level of incredibly bad offensive showcased at UW. And I'm tired of rock fights and one-dimensional play. I want lead guards who push the ball in transition and generate easy scoring opportunities. I want a faster tempo. It really isn't about zone defense at all -- which is another thing the pro-Hopkins crowd is obtusely intellectually dishonest about.

The reality is, by any subjective measurement, Hopkins has done exceedingly poorly the last three years. And it isn't just W/L data that supports that. Hiring him would be a massive, massive mistake -- just like it would have been promoting him to HC years ago, if we'd stuck to the plan.

We'd be seeing much of the same issues / dysfunction that we're seeing at UW -- why? Because he isn't that good of a coach. He's a terrific assistant coach, though. The peter principle applies here.

The pace we play is inextricably linked to the defense we play.

 

[AZOrange]

This is as clear as day. Duke is on the best run of recruiting since UK was at their apex.

They have gone title, S16, E8, E8, Covid (where they were 25-6), bad year last year, F4, and next year have the #1 recruiting class going away.

It's not even apples and oranges. It's apples and hand grenades.

[Edit: UNC has a top 10 recruiting class and is in the F4]

Hop is not a continuity hire. He’s not even here. And if you can’t correlate his departure with our recruiting issues I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[rrlbees]

Troy Weaver 2.0; it Bino Ransom; but i can also see Jeremy Pope in that role with his AAU ties and relationships with Adam Weitsman, Hop, Devo.

Mike Hopkins, Head Coach

• Bruce Weber, bench coach
• Gerry McNamara, Assistant
• Jeremy Pope, Assistant

You keep mentioning Ransom. I don’t want him near the program. He was/is a part of that whole FBI investigation into recruiting and was named in the subpoena Maryland received.

 

[DCUNITED13]

Here is a list of US Schools sponcered by NIKE, This would be a list from where our next coach is coming from.

Additionally, we need to look at who is the agent for our Current Coach. Then look at who else is managed by this agent. That would help with some of the guesses.

NIKE will control our next hire more than we all would like to admit.

Go CUSE.

 

[Janner]

I guess my question for all those who are pro Hopkins is, why would Hop be a better choice than Red? Red would come with a much smaller price tag, checks all the Syracuse, has stayed loyal and put his time in, checks all the local continuity & community boxes and is a good recruiter. He is missing the experience as a HC, but Hop hasnt had to much success in that category recently.

Personally, I am all for a national coaching search so I dont have a hire in the Hop vs Red discussion, I just struggle to see why/how Hop would be a significantly (like $2 million a yr more significantly) better choice if that were the direction the University decided to go. But, I am very open to what other think on this.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think this is a moot thread and I'm surprised it has made 24 pages.

The only way this isn't moot, is if there is an announcement in April about a retirement and a hire.

 

[MikeSU02]

Hop is not a continuity hire. He’s not even here. And if you can’t correlate his departure with our recruiting issues I don’t know what to tell you.

Listen, if he is that awesome of a candidate, put him in the pool within a national search. If he wins, he wins.

LET HIM PROVE IT. What is wrong with that?

 

[newmexicuse]

The pace we play is inextricably linked to the defense we play.

When we had superior athletes we were able to create more TOs and run even out of the Zone. While I agree playing exclusively Zone D impedes pace, IMHO the larger impediment to pace is the lack of plus athletes.

 

[SU94]

What coach worth their weight in salt would sign up for that?

Tommy Lloyd/Arizona.
Chris Mack did this at Louisville when he took the job.
Two examples.

 

[Alsacs]

Tommy Lloyd/Arizona.
Chris Mack did this at Louisville when he took the job.
Two examples.

This quote is ljnking to post I didn’t say what you are quoting me on.

 

[AZOrange]

When we had superior athletes we were able to create more TOs and run even out of the Zone. While I agree playing exclusively Zone D impedes pace, IMHO the larger impediment to pace is the lack of plus athletes.

Don’t disagree

 

[Alsacs]

Hop is not a continuity hire. He’s not even here. And if you can’t correlate his departure with our recruiting issues I don’t know what to tell you.

How is Washington recruiting?

 

[cuseinseattle]

Choosing good assistants is key to a head coach’s success. Not good at all if his judgement is actually lacking regarding assistants that can evaluate recruits, misjudges the value of their recruiting connections and ability to develop players over time.

He was going to have Jason Hart as his head assistant. This was basically a done deal before USC offered more money which J Hart didn't expect at the time and his wife said she would rather not move. Tim O'Toole was also supposed to move from Cal and come up but that feel through. He was left to scramble and he decided to pivot and hire some Seattle based assistants that would help him recruit the area. It made sense but didn't work out as they didn't deliver. I think his biggest mistake was not pivoting and moving on from people quicker.

 

[Mstumpy50]

Jake or anyone for that matter. Would Murph come back and be the "bench" coach with Hop? Maybe Weav would tell him you have to go back and "Shut it Down" at Cuse?!

 

[cuseinseattle]

How is Washington recruiting?

Your better than this. He is not even from the west coast. All of his relationships are on the east coast and he could move back and recruit as he is good at that. His recruiting at Washington is not a direct correlation to how he would recruit at Syracuse.

 

[Alsacs]

Your better than this. He is not even from the west coast. All of his relationships are on the east coast and he could move back and recruit as he is good at that. His recruiting at Washington is not a direct correlation to how he would recruit at Syracuse.

The man took the job in Seattle.
I think that if he had doubts he could recruit on the West Coast he shouldn’t have taken the job.

If recruiting is one of his strengths by year 5 he should be able to recruit in Washington.

 

[two3zone]

The man took the job in Seattle.
I think that if he had doubts he could recruit on the West Coast he shouldn’t have taken the job.

If recruiting is one of his strengths by year 5 he should be able to recruit in Washington.

I think he was recruiting fine until the mcdaniels fiasco. Pretty much destroyed the local recruiting and as cuseinSeattle said was to almost no fault of his own as he protected him as much as he could. Between that and the Quade situation happening within the same season really took the train off the rails.

 

[RF2044]

Tommy Lloyd/Arizona.
Chris Mack did this at Louisville when he took the job.
Two examples.

Actually, just one relevant example.

Lloyd was an AC, who got a promotion.

Mack did exactly what you said -- he was a coach performing well, went to Louisville amidst issues, and then directly compounded the issues and made them worse by continuing to cheat. And now, Louisville is going to struggle MORE to hire someone, because the hammer is about to get dropped on them.

 

[MikeSU02]

The man took the job in Seattle.
I think that if he had doubts he could recruit on the West Coast he shouldn’t have taken the job.

If recruiting is one of his strengths by year 5 he should be able to recruit in Washington.

Exactly this.

I love Hop. I do. I wish he got the job when he was supposed to. Truly.

I think it's totally fine if he is a candidate for being our next HC. But he needs to compete for it and win it within a national search.

 

[Alsacs]

I think he was recruiting fine until the mcdaniels fiasco. Pretty much destroyed the local recruiting and as cuseinSeattle said was to almost no fault of his own as he protected him as much as he could. Between that and the Quade situation happening within the same season really took the train off the rails.

So then how is he this great recruiter then?
I know he did well at Syracuse by being the good cop to JB’s tough cop.

I don’t think recruiting can be your strength and then in year 5 not be recruiting as a strength.

Seattle, Las Vegas, Southern California all have talent. How long does it take to become an elite recruiter if you are a good recruiter.

 

[cuseinseattle]

The man took the job in Seattle.
I think that if he had doubts he could recruit on the West Coast he shouldn’t have taken the job.

If recruiting is one of his strengths by year 5 he should be able to recruit in Washington.

We can argue whether he should have taken the job or not. He was backed into a corner and it was a P-5 job. Very few people move from the east to west coast for good reason. You lose all of your relationships. I normally agree with you but I think this take is lazy and wrong.

 

[Cusefan0307]

When we had superior athletes we were able to create more TOs and run even out of the Zone. While I agree playing exclusively Zone D impedes pace, IMHO the larger impediment to pace is the lack of plus athletes.

Teams started to slow us down when we had the athletes. From 2010-2013 we averaged less possessions per game than we have the last 5 years and we went 121-27 in those 4 seasons.

In 2012 and 2013 which were 2 of our best teams ever we averaged 64 possessions per game. This year and last year we averaged 68. A good zone slows games down because it's difficult for other teams to find shots to score.

 

[Alsacs]

We can argue whether he should have taken the job or not. He was backed into a corner and it was a P-5 job. Very few people move from the east to west coast for good reason. You lose all of your relationships. I normally agree with you but I think this take is lazy and wrong.

I am basing this off the belief his record at Washington shouldn’t be a negative for being the favorite for the Syracuse job.

I know could recruit well as an assistant here.
If he is an elite recruiter then by year 5 in Washington he should be able to recruit.

I am being consistent.
Hop’s Washington record is completely fair game to have doubts on his ability to produce at Syracuse.

If we are going to go with a national search Hopkins really should be the break glass hire. Not a favorite.

 

[TheCusian]

And if he sucks in every other aspect, as evidenced by the non-subjective evaluative criteria, it won't matter.

But let's oversimplify it to just "RECRUITING!," and pretend that he isn't sticking the joint up @ UW.

Problem is, that article debunks that dramatically oversimplified view, and objectively paints a different picture using data. What if he just isn't that good of a coach? Because that's what the data supports.

The pac 12 is bad but winning coach of then year twice is def a point against you. I’m also not as pro-hop as you’re hot take assumes. I am pro-talent, coaching stuff can be fixed with good assistants and experience.

I think the macro argument comes down to a guy we know vs the field, which is obviously unfair and a dumb way to think about it. It’s Hop, Red, Gmac vs who we can get when we actually do a search.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Listen, if he is that awesome of a candidate, put him in the pool within a national search. If he wins, he wins.

LET HIM PROVE IT. What is wrong with that?

Nothing.

Some are getting upset with the messengers here though. What is being shared is what is being heard or analyzed through the tea leaves that are being shown.