What Will It Take...

[Brooky03]

You have to be kidding? We are 312th in the country in three point shooting and 300th in overall shooting. That's not an issue?

Turnovers were an issues yesterday, but they have been down considerably recently and we won a lot of games where we turned it over a lot earlier in the year.

Right, but it's clear that excellent 3 point shooting is not an indicator of success unless you're the Golden State Warriors. 3 point shooting doesn't exist in a vacuum. Balance creates better looks for shooters, which increases shooting percentages. Without balance (post scoring), it's insanely difficult to get open looks. How many of the 3's we shot yesterday were contested? 75%, conservatively? That's been true for this entire season. Take away the forced looks our 3 scorers have hoisted up from deep, out of necessity, and their shooting numbers would drastically improve.

 

[SoBeCuse]

They outplayed those guards in Syracuse. Battle and Howard dominated them and they've outplayed a lot of guards in the conference. The issue is the front court. This is why bees says you make stuff up.

I said last night and NC St. game didn’t I? Not making anything up. I could care less what he thinks, lol.

 

[Fly Rodder]

RE: Impact of Sanctions - Imagine having this guy on the roster this season & last. Didn't happen because we didn't have a scholarship at the time. That's a recruiting "miss" that hurts.

During that time JAB also never used the full allotment of scholarships, took on not one, but two traditional transfers (one who has been, well, not very good) and had to burn a scholarship on Coleman who was mostly injured or unable to play. They had recruiting sanctions, but they hamstrung themselves a bit too.

 

[manleyzoo]

...for the JB apologists to admit that the game has passed him by?

15' - sanctions, but likely NIT
16' - miracle Final Four run because Sparty got upset
17' - NIT
18' - NIT

a .500 record in ACC play since 14-15’.
0 for the ACC tournament.
Unable to run any semblance of an offense.
Makes zero in-game adjustments on offense or defense.
Hasn't recruited a true PG since Kaleb.

I don't want to hear this "sanctions did their job nonsense."

What will it take for folks to acknowledge that he's not getting it done anymore? I love Jim Boeheim for what he's done for Syracuse basketball. Hell, he MADE Syracuse basketball. But one person is not bigger than the overall program. Just as a point of reference, Wooden retired at 65. Dean Smith was 66. Knight was 68 when he retired. Boeheim has indicated he wants to coach another 4 years, until Buddy's done, so he'll be 77 at that point. That's insane. I can't see any way he'll last 4 more years.

He's only hanging on to coach his son. That's incredibly selfish considering he's dragging down this program. What's worked for him in the past isn't working now and he's too old to make wide, sweeping necessary changes to adapt with the times.

How low does this program have to fall before people feel that it's time?

Really good post. The thing I don't get is what's so bad about his kid being coached by someone other than his father? Maybe it would be a good thing.

 

[SoBeCuse]

We need to hold back on predictions for next year until we see who’s on campus in the fall. As usual, there could be a lot of moving parts. I can’t say with absolute certainty about anyone being guaranteed to return. This is Syracuse.

I do know that Bazley, Carey, Buddy and Hughes are likely to be on the team.

I expect Chukwu and Sidibe come back. Sidibe’s health? Who knows.

I have no insight on the others.

But a few things to consider:

Is Dolezaj returning or going back to Europe? Will he be happy coming off the bench and playing limited minutes after starting late this season?

Will Moyer accept an even lesser role than this year? We’re talking possibly some games where he doesn’t play.

I suspect Howard returns. No reason to believe otherwise. Unless he’s itchy to make money in Europe. But I may be reaching.

Yeah, still a lot of unknowns. Really hope Sidibe can get right. Hope Oshae comes back but who knows if he likes it here or not. I’m expecting Battle gone.

Moyer who knows. He’s a rah-rah guy and supposedly bleeds Orange but he’s in the doghouse a lot and after the ankle incident and with his Pops driving to Syracuse to deal with Boeheim; who knows. But, Moyer will needa complete transformation in his game to even begin to sniff minutes, IMO.

Marek will need to accept a smaller role also like Moyer potentially. Marek isn’t an NBA player at all. Hopefully he’ll get his degree and take it back to Bratislava.

I’m going to hold pack on predicitions as well until we see the official roster. If it is legitimately improved then no more excuses for Boeheim and this slop.

 

[AZOrange]

The game hasn't changed that much. Sanctions killed us.

Yeah but so did changing conferences. Our D doesn’t hold up against these offenses

 

[chugg21]

Dolejaz was recruited and expected by many reputable posters on this board to be a major contributor, a one and done talent. I posted when we brought him in that this was ridiculous because he's not strong enough, had a language barrier and had to adjust to a new system and a new country.

That in my estimation is poor scouting, or settling on diamond in the rough players because it's much harder to recruit with an old coach and the negative recruiting strategies being employed against us.

Taking what people on the board say as having any resemblance to expectations of the staff probably isn't a good idea. Every single recruit that we get for either football or basketball are always over-hyped beyond any sort of reality. Folks on this board that were trying to scout some grainy euro footage of Marek and discerning that he was going to be great right away in the States and in the ACC no less were and are absurd. Kid is a program guy that as an upperclassmen will be doing all the small things that contribute to winning games. We desperately need guys like that, its been quite a while since we had a Josh Pace type that could provide energy and just make winning basketball plays.

 

[Brooky03]

Can somebody slap together a 'Bad Luck Brian' meme with Boeheim in it? The guy gets hit with some of the most severe sanctions the NCAA has handed down in a while, pulls together patchwork teams as a direct result, continues to churn out winning seasons with big time victories over elite schools along the way, goes deep into the NCAAT with the odds stacked against him, and people want his head on a platter because he's old. Apparently when you get old in a game that has evolved very very little in the last decade, you forget what basketball is. Go figure. Oh teams shoot 3's now?! Holy crap, sound the alarm!

Remember the idiots who wanted Pasqualoni gone because a few .500 seasons after consistent 8+ win seasons and a bowl game every two out of three years wasn't good enough? How'd that turn out? Syracuse is lucky to have some really good basketball infrastructure at its disposal but that only goes so far. This is not a 'destination' job for big time coaches. I have a feeling a lot of you are in for a rude awakening when JB hands over the keys.

I need to start keeping a list for future reference.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Right, but it's clear that excellent 3 point shooting is not an indicator of success unless you're the Golden State Warriors. 3 point shooting doesn't exist in a vacuum. Balance creates better looks for shooters, which increases shooting percentages. Without balance (post scoring), it's insanely difficult to get open looks. How many of the 3's we shot yesterday were contested? 75%, conservatively? That's been true for this entire season. Take away the forced looks our 3 scorers have hoisted up from deep, out of necessity, and their shooting numbers would drastically improve.

Not many teams utilize post ups anymore and we get in the paint with our guards. Some of our guys never pass and to often we have nobody to pass to.
The best teams in this conference also happen to be the best 3 point shooting teams. UVA/Clemson/Duke/UNC. That's not a coincidence. Virginia is the best team and doesn't post anyone up. They move the ball and find open shooters. Villanova doesn't post anyone up and they have been the best shooting team in CBB for the past 3 years.

It's the same in the NBA. Houston, Golden State, and Cleveland all shoot it really well. We will not win if we can't shoot consistently going forward. I guarantee that.

 

[JazzNC]

Taking what people on the board say as having any resemblance to expectations of the staff probably isn't a good idea. Every single recruit that we get for either football or basketball are always over-hyped beyond any sort of reality. Folks on this board that were trying to scout some grainy euro footage of Marek and discerning that he was going to be great right away in the States and in the ACC no less were and are absurd. Kid is a program guy that as an upperclassmen will be doing all the small things that contribute to winning games. We desperately need guys like that, its been quite a while since we had a Josh Pace type that could provide energy and just make winning basketball plays.

I agree that if Marek stays he will likely be good by the time he's a junior or senior. I see his high IQ. I also agree that we need some program guys. BUT I'm debating folks on a message board, not the staff (I think... LOL). So if you say I can't put stock in reputable posters (many of whom claim inside information) then NO ONE here should be taken as any kind of authority right? No one here should be so critical of opinion, right? This board cracks me up with it's contradictions. LMAO

 

[Brooky03]

Yeah but so did changing conferences. Our D doesn’t hold up against these offenses

I was tempted to agree, but I don't know that these teams are doing anything different than the old Big East teams did. Pitt used to light us up from deep pretty regularly. Calhoun at UConn would pick the zone apart when he had the talent. Louisville completely stomped us out more than a few times. Villanova, with Wright, would win games with scores in the 70's or 80's. Duke and UNC are outliers. After that, I don't know that there are any offenses consistently better against our zone than what we saw from equivalent Big East teams. I just think there's some recency bias and the lack of talent/offense the last few seasons has put a lot of pressure on the D.

I know JB has said it's not a problem and some agree with him, but a 6.5 person rotation cannot be good for defensive effort. It was apparent in the BC game moreso than usual.

 

[chugg21]

I agree that if Marek stays he will likely be good by the time he's a junior or senior. I see his high IQ. I also agree that we need some program guys. BUT I'm debating folks on a message board, not the staff (I think... LOL). So if you say I can't put stock in reputable posters (many of whom claim inside information) then NO ONE here should be taken as any kind of authority right? No one here should be so critical of opinion, right? This board cracks me up with it's contradictions. LMAO

We should and do definitely bash opinions every minute on here. But I'd recommend not getting your hopes up when someone on here watched a youtube video of a U18 euro game and is saying a bean pole from slovakia is going to dominate the ACC in year 1 and head off to the NBA.

I was just responding to the part of your post about Marek being a scouting miss which I don't really think is accurate. Can't possibly imagine the staff brought him in with expectations he was going to be a 1 and done kid. There is no way in hell that they watched him scrimmage against even our walk ons and thought that was happening.

 

[JazzNC]

We should and do definitely bash opinions every minute on here. But I'd recommend not getting your hopes up when someone on here watched a youtube video of a U18 euro game and is saying a bean pole from slovakia is going to dominate the ACC in year 1 and head off to the NBA.

I was just responding to the part of your post about Marek being a scouting miss which I don't really think is accurate. Can't possibly imagine the staff brought him in with expectations he was going to be a 1 and done kid. There is no way in hell that they watched him scrimmage against even our walk ons and thought that was happening.

I never got my hopes on on Dolejaz. I never allowed people's guesses to influence my opinion. I'm not like that. Hope you're right about Dolejaz's future.

 

[Brooky03]

Not many teams utilize post ups anymore and we get in the paint with our guards. Some of our guys never pass and to often we have nobody to pass to.
The best teams in this conference also happen to be the best 3 point shooting teams. UVA/Clemson/Duke/UNC. That's not a coincidence. Virginia is the best team and doesn't post anyone up. They move the ball and find open shooters. Villanova doesn't post anyone up and they have been the best shooting team in CBB for the past 3 years.

It's the same in the NBA. Houston, Golden State, and Cleveland all shoot it really well. We will not win if we can't shoot consistently going forward. I guarantee that.

Our guards get in the paint but have difficulty scoring. Post scoring is more than catching the ball and backing a guy down for 5 minutes. We literally can't get a big man the ball in any part of the paint and expect points more than a quarter of the time. That's a bigger issue than not shooting a percentage point or two higher from behind the arc.

Teams that shoot well from deep often play inside-out. Duke and UNC have great shooting. They also have unstoppable post scorers. Not a coincidence.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I was tempted to agree, but I don't know that these teams are doing anything different than the old Big East teams did. Pitt used to light us up from deep pretty regularly. Calhoun at UConn would pick the zone apart when he had the talent. Louisville completely stomped us out more than a few times. Villanova, with Wright, would win games with scores in the 70's or 80's. Duke and UNC are outliers. After that, I don't know that there are any offenses consistently better against our zone than what we saw from equivalent Big East teams. I just think there's some recency bias and the lack of talent/offense the last few seasons has put a lot of pressure on the D.

I know JB has said it's not a problem and some agree with him, but a 6.5 person rotation cannot be good for defensive effort. It was apparent in the BC game moreso than usual.

He’s changing his tune about the potential fatigue now. I guess I shouldn’t complain too much since they are who I thought they were going to be (18-13/17-14, NIT. Can’t remember by exact prediction), but it is just disappointing seeing so many poor fundamentals out there and so little skill. Some of these guys like Moyer are Top 100 players. I think the bottom line is that if Boeheim doesn’t have a few elite ISO-type guys then the offense is toast. Sure some shooters help but you have to scheme to get them open somewhat. I mean White shot a TON of contested shots last year. He made a lot of them and he was an amazing shooter but it isn’t like we got a lot of threes from the normal flow of the offense, IMO. Lots of jacks and chucks not moving the defense.

 

[tbonezone]

RE: Geno Thorpe - I didn't realize until I looked today, but guy was really good last year with South Florida. Can you imagine adding this stat line to our team this year:

15.1 ppg - 4.6 apg - 2.9 trb - 1.6 steals per - 3.0 turnovers tho

on .395% FG - .375% 3PT - .846 FT

Guy would be our 3rd leading scorer, best 3pt shooter, and 2nd in assists...

So, even after TT left the team so unexpectedly & it looked like 2017-18 would be one hell of a struggle, JB still went out and recruited (what appeared to be) a solid veteran player. Oh well.

Honestly, a few more wins (~2?) gets us in the Tournament...

Considering that we played 6 total games decided by 4 points or less this year, and went 1-5 in those games...if you make that just an even 3-3...that gives us 2 more wins.

Something to think about.

i call BS. neither thorpe or washington were playing when they were available.
frank and tyus are # 1 and #2 in the nation at mpg. they haven't sat all year.
thorpe read the writing and split. and no way HW sees the floor last night.
if anything this bench situation just gives JB the green light to do what he dreams of.
PLAY THE STARTERS 40 MINUTES !

 

[BlackSquirrels]

He's only hanging on to coach his son. That's incredibly selfish considering he's dragging down this program. What's worked for him in the past isn't working now and he's too old to make wide, sweeping necessary changes to adapt with the times.

Ha, you think JB is just hanging on to coach his son?

I'm thinking he wants to coach much longer than that.

 

[pearl31]

Bad game all around today. Lots of sloppy passes. All hero ball. Frank made some shots but he was horrendous running the offense, picking up his dribble, bad passes, not playing downhill, etc. BC ran a clinic on offense. Dolezaj and Moyer wer atrocious. Not a lot of fight out there tonight.

No excuses next year for Boeheim and the program.

Good post. Agree completely

 

[Cusefan0307]

Our guards get in the paint but have difficulty scoring. Post scoring is more than catching the ball and backing a guy down for 5 minutes. We literally can't get a big man the ball in any part of the paint and expect points more than a quarter of the time. That's a bigger issue than not shooting a percentage point or two higher from behind the arc.

Teams that shoot well from deep often play inside-out. Duke and UNC have great shooting. They also have unstoppable post scorers. Not a coincidence.

You conveniently left out Villanova and UVA. Who are their post scorers?

 

[chugg21]

i call BS. neither thorpe or washington were playing when they were available.
frank and tyus are # 1 and #2 in the nation at mpg. they haven't sat all year.

It's literally the reason that Thorpe isn't there to help us now.

 

[SoBeCuse]

You conveniently left out Villanova and UVA. Who are their post scorers?

But even a guy like Diakite can make a post move and score. You’re right in theory that they don’t really utilize them in their scheme. Salt can make a move and score. Ochefu could. Omari Spellman is capable. Our guys literally can’t or they travel or mess something up, lol.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Can somebody slap together a 'Bad Luck Brian' meme with Boeheim in it? The guy gets hit with some of the most severe sanctions the NCAA has handed down in a while, pulls together patchwork teams as a direct result, continues to churn out winning seasons with big time victories over elite schools along the way, goes deep into the NCAAT with the odds stacked against him, and people want his head on a platter because he's old. Apparently when you get old in a game that has evolved very very little in the last decade, you forget what basketball is. Go figure. Oh teams shoot 3's now?! Holy crap, sound the alarm!

Remember the idiots who wanted Pasqualoni gone because a few .500 seasons after consistent 8+ win seasons and a bowl game every two out of three years wasn't good enough? How'd that turn out? Syracuse is lucky to have some really good basketball infrastructure at its disposal but that only goes so far. This is not a 'destination' job for big time coaches. I have a feeling a lot of you are in for a rude awakening when JB hands over the keys.

I need to start keeping a list for future reference.

Um just because his replacement was botched doesn't mean he shouldn't have been fired.

Also, as has been pointed out myriad times here JB is the CEO. He owns the sanctions, please spare me the "bad luck" take.

 

[cuseinseattle]

You're telling me that getting 8-9 ppg out of Moyer on a consistent basis wouldn't help the overall offense and take pressure off Frank and Tyus? Come on.

Moyer airballed a 6 footer yesterday. What plays are we running for him. Unless it involves him being unguarded under the basket he will not score 10 points a game.

 

[Cusefan0307]

But even a guy like Diakite can make a post move and score. You’re right in theory that they don’t really utilize them in their scheme. Salt can make a move and score. Ochefu could. Omari Spellman is capable. Our guys literally can’t or they travel or mess something up, lol.

I think Sidibe can be that guy, but we still don't have enough shooting. Literally nobody in the pros or college plays two bigs together anymore that can't shoot and we still do every game.

 

[Brooky03]

You conveniently left out Villanova and UVA. Who are their post scorers?

You were stating (or implying) the rule, I was stating the exceptions. Virginia doesn't have great post scorers but they do often still work inside out because their frontcourt players, at the very least, can't be left unguarded like ours, and they're actually skilled passers. Bennett is doing a great job with that program. Villanova puts 19 guards on the court at one time and they all let it fly. It's worked in the NCAAT when they've stayed hot from deep, it's killed them in the NCAAT when they go cold. Nova has an inflated record from playing in a midmajor conference, but I'd think they'd manage a 4th place finish in the ACC this year. Good team.

Remember that time UNC won a National Championship with 3 point shooting just as bad as ours is this season?