What Will It Take...

[Brooky03]

Hakim Warrick would be shooting jumpshots if he played today. Wendell Carter shoots 3’s for Duke. This isn’t the 1990’s or 2000’s. The best teams aren’t winning shooting just 2’s. Teams pack the paint if you try.

They'll pack the paint if all the team can do is shoot inside the arc. They did that when Rak was here, yes. But I'm not talking about having a team devoid of 3 point shooting.

We're both 99% in agreement; we need production from both forwards. That's what this is boiled down to.

Wendell Carter's one 3-point attempt per game is probably not contributing much to his production or to Duke's offensive strategy. Stepping back for a 3 once in a while is cool and all, but if you're not shooting it for volume, it's little more than a smokescreen. They'll defend you out there if you can hit it, but only just barely; not enough to change the defensive strategy.

 

[Brooky03]

OH WELL THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING

OK I’m done. I don’t even disagree with what your saying overall about this season. But I’m not going to spend he rest of this afternoon dying on this hill.

Good. I'm glad we're in a agreement that Gross dropped the ball and should have done better.

 

[Cusefan0307]

They'll pack the paint if all the team can do is shoot inside the arc. They did that when Rak was here, yes. But I'm not talking about having a team devoid of 3 point shooting.

We're both 99% in agreement; we need production from both forwards. That's what this is boiled down to.

Wendell Carter's one 3-point attempt per game is probably not contributing much to his production or to Duke's offensive strategy. Stepping back for a 3 once in a while is cool and all, but if you're not shooting it for volume, it's little more than a smokescreen. They'll defend you out there if you can hit it, but only just barely; not enough to change the defensive strategy.

He still has to be guarded out there. We literally have nobody at the 4 that has to be guarded outside of 5 feet.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

“Additionally, Jim Boeheim told the NCAA he disregarded the policy because the athletic director told him he didn't have to follow it.”

“Didn’t have to follow it” =\= “Don’t follow it.” And JB has dealt with the NCAA and knows exactly what kind of “organization” that is. He should’ve known better.

And I understand that the policy is archaic. The solution to that is to CHANGE THE POLICY.

We did change the policy.

Problem is, the AD's office never sent the NCAA a copy of our amended policy.

In the eyes of the NCAA, they still expected us to call parents.

 

[HakAttack]

Ha, you think JB is just hanging on to coach his son?

I'm thinking he wants to coach much longer than that.

For all of our sakes, I hope not.

 

[HakAttack]

A vintage season is 34-3?!?!?! C'mon maaaaan. That's an all time great season. If you think 25-7 is a bad seasons...bro go root for Duke.

If we’re 25-7 and lose in the second round, yes, that’s a bad season. Bro.

 

[NineOneSeven]

He still has to be guarded out there. We literally have nobody at the 4 that has to be guarded outside of 5 feet.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but it's amazing to think about our 2003 team. Yes, we had one of the all time great bball players but look at our roster? We had 3 guys who could make long range shots in the starting lineup and then brought in a guard and guard/forward who NEVER shot threes. I mean.. that is insane. It's curious how it would translate to this current climate.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but it's amazing to think about our 2003 team. Yes, we had one of the all time great bball players but look at our roster? We had 3 guys who could make long range shots in the starting lineup and then brought in a guard and guard/forward who NEVER shot threes. I mean.. that is insane. It's curious how it would translate to this current climate.

I think guys like Pace and Edelin would struggle a bit if they played as constructed, but players evolve and guys who wouldn't shoot 3's then would now.

Guys like Warrick would probably play more on the perimeter. The difference with that team is we pushed the tempo a lot compared to what we do now. That was pre JB high screen and roll offense. Everything went through Melo in the post in the half court.

 

[Jasoncuse]

With Howard, Brissett, Carey, and Hughes shooting shouldn't be a question mark. I was willing to give JB a pass for this year, but next year no excuses. Win 25 games and be a contender in March. That is enough shooting.

Howard is the only one I'd be confident in shooting well next year. Brissett has improved, but still has a shot that needs work. He should be better next year, but who knows. Carey, Hughes, Bazley, Buddy all could be great shooters, but we have to see how they handle playing here first...

 

[Cusefan0307]

Howard is the only one I'd be confident in shooting well next year. Brissett has improved, but still has a shot that needs work. He should be better next year, but who knows. Carey, Hughes, Bazley, Buddy all could be great shooters, but we have to see how they handle playing here first...

Brissett is shooting 38% from 3 in conference play. It’s already improved a lot. I think it’s realistic to think he can replicate that next year.

 

[Orangtiz]

All Im saying...next year better be vintage Syracuse basketball

This is the issue I take with the fan base. We have said the same thing when Gillon and White III transferred in. So next year it better be vintage. Otherwise, I think theres ground for moving on from Boeheim, I really do.

 

[HakAttack]

Still banging that drum...almost two years later. And nothing has changed.

“How low does the program have to fall before people will admit it’s time for JB to go?”

 

[two3zone]

All Im saying...next year better be vintage Syracuse basketball

Any big recruits coming in to make that happen? I don't see that happening.

edit: Didn't realize I quoted a 2018 post

 

[HakAttack]

Any big recruits coming in to make that happen? I don't see that happening.

edit: Didn't realize I quoted a 2018 post

Nothing changed. It’s still relevant today.

 

[two3zone]

Nothing changed. It’s still relevant today.

It really hasnt.....

 

[hungrychuck]

It is time.

Just a matter of doing it gracefully.

 

[Chosen0ne]

What’s sad is that I read quite a few posts before I even realized this was bumped from a year prior...

 

[billsin01]

It is time.

Just a matter of doing it gracefully.

But that’s the whole problem. There is no graceful in this and wildhack is in an exceedingly tough position. I’m not totally sure why we would think sanctions wouldn’t impact us significantly (they did the first time around too) but regardless, I think most are on board with the end being near ... very near. I think most agree that it’s time for JB.

But how do you tell the coach who literally is Syracuse basketball he’s got to go in a graceful way.

He’ll be here next year and probably in buddy’s senior season. I mean everyone can keep posting about how old he is but it doesn’t change the reality which is he me very, very unlikely to go anywhere soon.

 

[hungrychuck]

But that’s the whole problem. There is no graceful in this and wildhack is in an exceedingly tough position. I’m not totally sure why we would think sanctions wouldn’t impact us significantly (they did the first time around too) but regardless, I think most are on board with the end being near ... very near. I think most agree that it’s time for JB.

But how do you tell the coach who literally is Syracuse basketball he’s got to go in a graceful way.

He’ll be here next year and probably in buddy’s senior season. I mean everyone can keep posting about how old he is but it doesn’t change the reality which is he me very, very unlikely to go anywhere soon.

You approach him nicely and respectfully. With wallet open.

And make clear that if that’s not acceptable, you’re willing to bare fangs.

If JB really is SU basketball, he shouldn’t find the ugly way acceptable.

 

[billsin01]

Still banging that drum...almost two years later. And nothing has changed.

“How low does the program have to fall before people will admit it’s time for JB to go?”

You approach him nicely and respectfully. With wallet open.

And make clear that if that’s not acceptable, you’re willing to bare fangs.

If JB really is SU basketball, he shouldn’t find the ugly way acceptable.

Right. I’m sure a guy who has been insanely competitive his whole life will be receptive to that. And Syracuse never opens the checkbook.

If you want to argue he needs to go I don’t think you’ll get huge arguments from most people. But there’s no graceful. Even if you feel JB should react a certain way.

 

[kcsu]

Dr. Tucker, paging Dr. Tucker...

 

[Scooch]

To answer seriously... it’ll take having a bad season next year. The great thing about sports is that conclusions tend to reveal themselves in time. This year was never going to be great, for a host of legitimate reasons. Those reasons are largely gone next year. Hopefully we do well. If not, it’ll be fair to wonder if it’s time to move on.

Sooo... not sure if I’d call last year “bad”, strictly speaking, but it wasn’t particularly good. This year is looking like it’ll be a flaming wreck. All things considered, my post from nearly 2 years ago has aged well.

 

[hungrychuck]

Right. I’m sure a guy who has been insanely competitive his whole life will be receptive to that. And Syracuse never opens the checkbook.

If you want to argue he needs to go I don’t think you’ll get huge arguments from most people. But there’s no graceful. Even if you feel JB should react a certain way.

Actually, there IS a graceful.

If you’re dealing with a rational person.

Or someone who is not “insanely competitive,” as you so generously put it.

A statesman checks his ego at the door and looks to what is best for the program.

And if he is not a statesman, you use the dagger.

 

[billsin01]

Actually, there IS a graceful.

If you’re dealing with a rational person.

Or someone who is not “insanely competitive,” as you so generously put it.

A statesman checks his ego at the door and looks to what is best for the program.

And if he is not a statesman, you use the dagger.

That’s fine. But the dagger is hard to do particularly when you have concerns about offending influential donors/boosters.

I’m literally not arguing with you. There is a graceful way to fire *a* coach. But if you’re not opening the checkbook, which Syracuse never does, and the coach in question is a proud, fiery, competitor who has the backing of a ton of influential folks ... then you’re in a very tough spot. The only answer is the dagger, as you say, but that could have significantly difficult ramifications as well.

 

[Gotothehole]

Understand the frustration, and agree that he's not much of a coach on offense.

But in the bigger picture, he's gotten more out of this team than most of us expected in the preseason.

They're just not very good. They've overachieved, and the coaching staff deserves credit for that.

You do you know that this JB team right? He has to go