Where Did It All Go Wrong???

[anomander]

What a total collapse. After that Clemson win, never would I have expected them to lose out. There have been many disappointments I have experienced with Syracuse Football, but this may take the cake.

I have said it several times and I don't think it's any secret that I am a huge Babers fan. I 110% feel that he is our best chance to get back to respectability, and he should be extended in the offseason, but I have 1 issue. I really feel the way the Clemson win was handled ended up having a negative effect on the team. I think there was far too much back slapping and they some how lost their edge. I have a feeling if he could do it again, he would because they definitely did not capitalize on the win, and now all the momentum that was gained is gone. The win went from Syracuse coming out and beating a great team to now, Clemson only lost becase Bryant was hurt. That narrative is only because of how we imploded after, not anything Clemson has done.

Now instead of focusing on what happened, and how we got here, I want to look at what needs to be improved going forward.

- I think the first thing that needs to be addressed is the quarterback position. I hate to say this about Eric, but you are only as good as your availability. If you are only physically capable of playing half the season then that has to factor into the decision. Sure he wasn't done any favors with the playing calling and continually running him into the ground, but I think they realized that what makes Eric good is his ability to hurt you with his feet. If they took that away he really isn't a great pocket passer. You're best bet is to let him play and hope for the best. Unfortunately, that has led to him being knocked out by week 8 in each of his first 3 seasons. That is starting to be a trend, not the exception. I also think it needs to be factored into the decision that what this offense needs most is a true pocket passer. Now I have no idea if Devito is the answer. If I had to guess I have a feeling he is going to be very very good. From the limited times I have seen him live, and based on what people who know what they're talking about have said about him, then I have little doubt it's not if he will be a starting qb here, it's when. I think Babers is going to have to take a hard look at this position starting as soon as the last game is completed. I think Devito should be given a legit shot to win the job and if they compete and are even close to equal going into Fall camp, then the tough decision will need to be made. Having your starting QB KO'd 3/4 through the season year after year just has too much of a negative effect on the entire team. Plus it's not like Eric doesn't have his issues. He is too loose with the football, is not accurate enough for this high % offensive passing game, and is reckless with his body. I love the kid and his heart, but it's not like bad decisions didn't put us in a whole in each road game this season. Having a true pocket passer that can complete these high % throws , and more importantly not be putting his body at risk, because he needs to run to make up for passing inefficiencies, should be heavily considered.

- Need of a pass rusher. I'm not sure what happened to the DL the past 2 games, but we are seeing what the lack of a pass rush does to a defense. I don't think it's coincidental that the last 2 games has really exposed the secondary because they haven't been able to get to the qb. Even earlier in the seaosn they may not have been racking up the sacks, but they were consistently hitting the qb. I think at one point they had knocked out 3 or 4 straight opposing QB's. The last 2 games they would be lucky if they touched the opposing qb a total of 5 times. Slayton is getting doubled, Robinson hasn't done anything, and Coleman doesn't look to be at 100%. Guthrie should never be seen at DE again. I'm not sure if any of the current redshirts have the capability, of Jonathan will have the ability, but they need to focus on bringing in someone that can get to the QB. imo it's probably the hardest position to recruit, but if you bring in enough DE's you should get lucky with 1. In the long run I think Coleman and Robinson will give you that ability, but it's another position where quality depth is pretty thin.

- I actually feel we will be fine in the back 7 just as long as they keep the current kids committed. We are now seeing why Williams and Ellison were both buried deep on the depth chart. It's been a perfect storm, but the last 2 games with the DL not being able to get any pressure on the qb, and Cordy/Martin out for the year, our safeties have been getting abused. Those 2 are the exact opposite prototype of a player you want in this defense. However, once fully healthy this is going to be an experienced and pretty deep group. You get Cordy back, and I feel some of the best recruits are in the defensive backfield. Help is on the way

- As for LB, it may be blasphemous to say this, but we may improve with the more athletic and long young guys waiting in the wings. Like the defensive backfiled, I think some of the most talented recruits and redshirts are at this position. Kids like Richards and Fagan are going to be studs. Armstrong has already shown he can play. All 3 are bigger and more athletic then the current group that was brought in to fit Shafer's defense. Ward will get this guys and the group could actually improve.

- RB. I'm pretty shocked Babers hasn't been able to recruit a stud RB yet. I like Dixon as an every down back, and Jordan as that 3rd down, change of pace back, but I thought they would be able to attract that stud, sure fire RB to play in this offense? Maybe it will happen next year, but next year it will be more Strickland with a sprinkle of everyone else, as I think Neal gets moved to slot.

- OL just needs time to mature. This group has been average, maybe slightly below as a unit, but they are extremely young. This is another group where I actually feel they have a lot of talent waiting in the wings. I think Servais eventually gets moved to OT, and Sampson will take over at C. You have some nice, big, talented OT's, who will take some development, but can be cornerstones down the road . I like the potential in this group.

- WR. I may be in the minority, but I think Butler can strive as a #2 WR. He hasn't shown the best hands in the world, but he also isn't helped with accurate throws. He either gets hospital throws or passes around the ankles. What he does have is that extra gear the current group is missing. A whole off-season knowing he is going to be the man, I think will help him mentally. I would also like to see Nykiem Johnson be the focal point of the passing game next week vs BC. He's more natural than Erv, and like Butler, has that extra gear. Erv has been very good, but he's also not the most sure handed. WR's in this offense are going to put up numbers. More than any other position, this group will always put up gaudy numbers because of the scheme. We have some established young guys, as well as some nice young talent waiting to take over.

-Kicker - I hate not having a reliable FG kicker. Despite a season changing miss, Cole has been really good this year. He will be tough to be replaced.


As you can see I am pretty positive on the outlook of the program. I believe we have the dream staff in place, it's just time for guys to mature, and develop from role players to players who are relied upon to win games. Obviously, I think a huge decision is going to need to be made in the off-season. I'm going to be interested to see if Babers actually gives Devito a legit shot to win the job to lead this team. Either way the future is bright, and that has been the hardest part about swallowing the beat downs we have received these last 2 weeks.

Thoughts?

 

[Chris02M]

what happened?

guys on playing injured or are out injured all over the field especially on defense

 

[anomander]

what happened?

guys on playing injured or are out injured all over the field especially on defense

Nope. Not using injuries as an excuse. Maybe we didn't have the depth to cover the injuries, but injuries are a part of football. Every team in the country is dealing with injuries at this time of the year. We aren't even that bad in comparison. Injuries were used as the excuse the last 2 seasons. Injuries happen. It's football. You need to have the depth to cover them.

 

[Chris02M]

Nope. Not using injuries as an excuse. Maybe we didn't have the depth to cover the injuries, but injuries are a part of football. Every team in the country is dealing with injuries at this time of the year. We aren't even that bad in comparison. Injuries were used as the excuse the last 2 seasons. Injuries happen. It's football. You need to have the depth to cover them.

our depth guys are undersized bigeast players while were playing in the hardest division in football

 

[TheCusian]

What a total collapse. After that Clemson win, never would I have expected them to lose out. There have been many disappointments I have experienced with Syracuse Football, but this may take the cake.

I have said it several times and I don't think it's any secret that I am a huge Babers fan. I 110% feel that he is our best chance to get back to respectability, and he should be extended in the offseason, but I have 1 issue. I really feel the way the Clemson win was handled ended up having a negative effect on the team. I think there was far too much back slapping and they some how lost their edge. I have a feeling if he could do it again, he would because they definitely did not capitalize on the win, and now all the momentum that was gained is gone. The win went from Syracuse coming out and beating a great team to now, Clemson only lost becase Bryant was hurt. That narrative is only because of how we imploded after, not anything Clemson has done.

Now instead of focusing on what happened, and how we got here, I want to look at what needs to be improved going forward.

- I think the first thing that needs to be addressed is the quarterback position. I hate to say this about Eric, but you are only as good as your availability. If you are only physically capable of playing half the season then that has to factor into the decision. Sure he wasn't done any favors with the playing calling and continually running him into the ground, but I think they realized that what makes Eric good is his ability to hurt you with his feet. If they took that away he really isn't a great pocket passer. You're best bet is to let him play and hope for the best. Unfortunately, that has led to him being knocked out by week 8 in each of his first 3 seasons. That is starting to be a trend, not the exception. I also think it needs to be factored into the decision that what this offense needs most is a true pocket passer. Now I have no idea if Devito is the answer. If I had to guess I have a feeling he is going to be very very good. From the limited times I have seen him live, and based on what people who know what they're talking about have said about him, then I have little doubt it's not if he will be a starting qb here, it's when. I think Babers is going to have to take a hard look at this position starting as soon as the last game is completed. I think Devito should be given a legit shot to win the job and if they compete and are even close to equal going into Fall camp, then the tough decision will need to be made. Having your starting QB KO'd 3/4 through the season year after year just has too much of a negative effect on the entire team. Plus it's not like Eric doesn't have his issues. He is too loose with the football, is not accurate enough for this high % offensive passing game, and is reckless with his body. I love the kid and his heart, but it's not like bad decisions didn't put us in a whole in each road game this season. Having a true pocket passer that can complete these high % throws , and more importantly not be putting his body at risk, because he needs to run to make up for passing inefficiencies, should be heavily considered.

- Need of a pass rusher. I'm not sure what happened to the DL the past 2 games, but we are seeing what the lack of a pass rush does to a defense. I don't think it's coincidental that the last 2 games has really exposed the secondary because they haven't been able to get to the qb. Even earlier in the seaosn they may not have been racking up the sacks, but they were consistently hitting the qb. I think at one point they had knocked out 3 or 4 straight opposing QB's. The last 2 games they would be lucky if they touched the opposing qb a total of 5 times. Slayton is getting doubled, Robinson hasn't done anything, and Coleman doesn't look to be at 100%. Guthrie should never be seen at DE again. I'm not sure if any of the current redshirts have the capability, of Jonathan will have the ability, but they need to focus on bringing in someone that can get to the QB. imo it's probably the hardest position to recruit, but if you bring in enough DE's you should get lucky with 1. In the long run I think Coleman and Robinson will give you that ability, but it's another position where quality depth is pretty thin.

- I actually feel we will be fine in the back 7 just as long as they keep the current kids committed. We are now seeing why Williams and Ellison were both buried deep on the depth chart. It's been a perfect storm, but the last 2 games with the DL not being able to get any pressure on the qb, and Cordy/Martin out for the year, our safeties have been getting abused. Those 2 are the exact opposite prototype of a player you want in this defense. However, once fully healthy this is going to be an experienced and pretty deep group. You get Cordy back, and I feel some of the best recruits are in the defensive backfield. Help is on the way

- As for LB, it may be blasphemous to say this, but we may improve with the more athletic and long young guys waiting in the wings. Like the defensive backfiled, I think some of the most talented recruits and redshirts are at this position. Kids like Richards and Fagan are going to be studs. Armstrong has already shown he can play. All 3 are bigger and more athletic then the current group that was brought in to fit Shafer's defense. Ward will get this guys and the group could actually improve.

- RB. I'm pretty shocked Babers hasn't been able to recruit a stud RB yet. I like Dixon as an every down back, and Jordan as that 3rd down, change of pace back, but I thought they would be able to attract that stud, sure fire RB to play in this offense? Maybe it will happen next year, but next year it will be more Strickland with a sprinkle of everyone else, as I think Neal gets moved to slot.

- OL just needs time to mature. This group has been average, maybe slightly below as a unit, but they are extremely young. This is another group where I actually feel they have a lot of talent waiting in the wings. I think Servais eventually gets moved to OT, and Sampson will take over at C. You have some nice, big, talented OT's, who will take some development, but can be cornerstones down the road . I like the potential in this group.

- WR. I may be in the minority, but I think Butler can strive as a #2 WR. He hasn't shown the best hands in the world, but he also isn't helped with accurate throws. He either gets hospital throws or passes around the ankles. What he does have is that extra gear the current group is missing. A whole off-season knowing he is going to be the man, I think will help him mentally. I would also like to see Nykiem Johnson be the focal point of the passing game next week vs BC. He's more natural than Erv, and like Butler, has that extra gear. Erv has been very good, but he's also not the most sure handed. WR's in this offense are going to put up numbers. More than any other position, this group will always put up gaudy numbers because of the scheme. We have some established young guys, as well as some nice young talent waiting to take over.

-Kicker - I hate not having a reliable FG kicker. Despite a season changing miss, Cole has been really good this year. He will be tough to be replaced.


As you can see I am pretty positive on the outlook of the program. I believe we have the dream staff in place, it's just time for guys to mature, and develop from role players to players who are relied upon to win games. Obviously, I think a huge decision is going to need to be made in the off-season. I'm going to be interested to see if Babers actually gives Devito a legit shot to win the job to lead this team. Either way the future is bright, and that has been the hardest part about swallowing the beat downs we have received these last 2 weeks.

Thoughts?

I say open the job up and see who wins it.

That said, I wonder if we go with ED, but work TD in earlier than we would normally in blowouts (in either direction). Get him a series or two vs peer schools and let ED try to heart his way to gutsy wins vs teams with more talent (Clemson/FSU/ND).

Should be interesting.

I have the same thoughts about Moe to the slot, Servais moved, and Sampson at C.

I think you play the best 3-4 WR. Just open it up 100%. Freshman or not.

 

[TheCusian]

Nope. Not using injuries as an excuse. Maybe we didn't have the depth to cover the injuries, but injuries are a part of football. Every team in the country is dealing with injuries at this time of the year. We aren't even that bad in comparison. Injuries were used as the excuse the last 2 seasons. Injuries happen. It's football. You need to have the depth to cover them.

I hate using the word excuse to describe reasons. But agree if we’re looking for a reason - it’s depth.

Every team deals with injuries, but the good teams built right can absorb some of them and still meet their goals. We very clearly, can’t. Yet.

 

[CuseLegacy]

What a total collapse. After that Clemson win, never would I have expected them to lose out. There have been many disappointments I have experienced with Syracuse Football, but this may take the cake.

I have said it several times and I don't think it's any secret that I am a huge Babers fan. I 110% feel that he is our best chance to get back to respectability, and he should be extended in the offseason, but I have 1 issue. I really feel the way the Clemson win was handled ended up having a negative effect on the team. I think there was far too much back slapping and they some how lost their edge. I have a feeling if he could do it again, he would because they definitely did not capitalize on the win, and now all the momentum that was gained is gone. The win went from Syracuse coming out and beating a great team to now, Clemson only lost becase Bryant was hurt. That narrative is only because of how we imploded after, not anything Clemson has done.

Now instead of focusing on what happened, and how we got here, I want to look at what needs to be improved going forward.

- I think the first thing that needs to be addressed is the quarterback position. I hate to say this about Eric, but you are only as good as your availability. If you are only physically capable of playing half the season then that has to factor into the decision. Sure he wasn't done any favors with the playing calling and continually running him into the ground, but I think they realized that what makes Eric good is his ability to hurt you with his feet. If they took that away he really isn't a great pocket passer. You're best bet is to let him play and hope for the best. Unfortunately, that has led to him being knocked out by week 8 in each of his first 3 seasons. That is starting to be a trend, not the exception. I also think it needs to be factored into the decision that what this offense needs most is a true pocket passer. Now I have no idea if Devito is the answer. If I had to guess I have a feeling he is going to be very very good. From the limited times I have seen him live, and based on what people who know what they're talking about have said about him, then I have little doubt it's not if he will be a starting qb here, it's when. I think Babers is going to have to take a hard look at this position starting as soon as the last game is completed. I think Devito should be given a legit shot to win the job and if they compete and are even close to equal going into Fall camp, then the tough decision will need to be made. Having your starting QB KO'd 3/4 through the season year after year just has too much of a negative effect on the entire team. Plus it's not like Eric doesn't have his issues. He is too loose with the football, is not accurate enough for this high % offensive passing game, and is reckless with his body. I love the kid and his heart, but it's not like bad decisions didn't put us in a whole in each road game this season. Having a true pocket passer that can complete these high % throws , and more importantly not be putting his body at risk, because he needs to run to make up for passing inefficiencies, should be heavily considered.

- Need of a pass rusher. I'm not sure what happened to the DL the past 2 games, but we are seeing what the lack of a pass rush does to a defense. I don't think it's coincidental that the last 2 games has really exposed the secondary because they haven't been able to get to the qb. Even earlier in the seaosn they may not have been racking up the sacks, but they were consistently hitting the qb. I think at one point they had knocked out 3 or 4 straight opposing QB's. The last 2 games they would be lucky if they touched the opposing qb a total of 5 times. Slayton is getting doubled, Robinson hasn't done anything, and Coleman doesn't look to be at 100%. Guthrie should never be seen at DE again. I'm not sure if any of the current redshirts have the capability, of Jonathan will have the ability, but they need to focus on bringing in someone that can get to the QB. imo it's probably the hardest position to recruit, but if you bring in enough DE's you should get lucky with 1. In the long run I think Coleman and Robinson will give you that ability, but it's another position where quality depth is pretty thin.

- I actually feel we will be fine in the back 7 just as long as they keep the current kids committed. We are now seeing why Williams and Ellison were both buried deep on the depth chart. It's been a perfect storm, but the last 2 games with the DL not being able to get any pressure on the qb, and Cordy/Martin out for the year, our safeties have been getting abused. Those 2 are the exact opposite prototype of a player you want in this defense. However, once fully healthy this is going to be an experienced and pretty deep group. You get Cordy back, and I feel some of the best recruits are in the defensive backfield. Help is on the way

- As for LB, it may be blasphemous to say this, but we may improve with the more athletic and long young guys waiting in the wings. Like the defensive backfiled, I think some of the most talented recruits and redshirts are at this position. Kids like Richards and Fagan are going to be studs. Armstrong has already shown he can play. All 3 are bigger and more athletic then the current group that was brought in to fit Shafer's defense. Ward will get this guys and the group could actually improve.

- RB. I'm pretty shocked Babers hasn't been able to recruit a stud RB yet. I like Dixon as an every down back, and Jordan as that 3rd down, change of pace back, but I thought they would be able to attract that stud, sure fire RB to play in this offense? Maybe it will happen next year, but next year it will be more Strickland with a sprinkle of everyone else, as I think Neal gets moved to slot.

- OL just needs time to mature. This group has been average, maybe slightly below as a unit, but they are extremely young. This is another group where I actually feel they have a lot of talent waiting in the wings. I think Servais eventually gets moved to OT, and Sampson will take over at C. You have some nice, big, talented OT's, who will take some development, but can be cornerstones down the road . I like the potential in this group.

- WR. I may be in the minority, but I think Butler can strive as a #2 WR. He hasn't shown the best hands in the world, but he also isn't helped with accurate throws. He either gets hospital throws or passes around the ankles. What he does have is that extra gear the current group is missing. A whole off-season knowing he is going to be the man, I think will help him mentally. I would also like to see Nykiem Johnson be the focal point of the passing game next week vs BC. He's more natural than Erv, and like Butler, has that extra gear. Erv has been very good, but he's also not the most sure handed. WR's in this offense are going to put up numbers. More than any other position, this group will always put up gaudy numbers because of the scheme. We have some established young guys, as well as some nice young talent waiting to take over.

-Kicker - I hate not having a reliable FG kicker. Despite a season changing miss, Cole has been really good this year. He will be tough to be replaced.


As you can see I am pretty positive on the outlook of the program. I believe we have the dream staff in place, it's just time for guys to mature, and develop from role players to players who are relied upon to win games. Obviously, I think a huge decision is going to need to be made in the off-season. I'm going to be interested to see if Babers actually gives Devito a legit shot to win the job to lead this team. Either way the future is bright, and that has been the hardest part about swallowing the beat downs we have received these last 2 weeks.

Thoughts?

Is Eric really not a good pocket passer or is it the scheme or the line that makes it necessary for him to run? Watching Culpepper yesterday if he hadn't been able to gain yardage with his feet they probably wouldn't have scored that one touchdown...ugly throwing motion or not. Also I don't think you can discount injuries. Even those of us who don't play football can suffer an injury that effects are performance and even the loss of our job. No?

 

[Bayside44]

Nope. Not using injuries as an excuse. Maybe we didn't have the depth to cover the injuries, but injuries are a part of football. Every team in the country is dealing with injuries at this time of the year. We aren't even that bad in comparison. Injuries were used as the excuse the last 2 seasons. Injuries happen. It's football. You need to have the depth to cover them.

How can we not reference injuries? I mean we have a basically 500 QB being replaced by a walkon.

Babers isn't Coach P with decade plus here and a backlog of recruits where injuries should just mean plug the next guy in. He has one real class here.

We could make the case he should've gone full Marrone and dismissed 15 plus kids and got full our JUCO / transfer but that isn't his style.

 

[CanadianSU]

It's just very disappointing. The national narrative after the Clemson win was that syracuse deserved to beat Clemson and that it wasn't a fluke... well that's gone out the door.

 

[Ish88888]

Depth will be a theme here but there was something else going on these past few weeks. Every team has injuries and we actually navigated pretty well throughout the season. The only difference on D the past 3 weeks was the absence of Martin. He is the only thing missing from a D that played well against Clemson, Miami, and FSU. Yes , the loss of ED hurts and every team loves and rallies around the starter but when ED was declared out for WF, it was as if the dragon was beheaded. That cant happen.

This team lost its mental edge and juice the past few weeks and thats on the staff. Teams need to rally around a back up, it's a team game , and its a system we run on O. Plug and play, next man up. If you have never played the game, then you won't understand.

Rather than rallying around ZM and looking to pick each other up, more focus on D with the backup qb playing, there was apathy, feeling a bit sorry for themselves. That cant happen. The staff has to rally the team. We ran outta juice with a bowl berth on the line. Losing your qb cant deflate the entire team like that. It just cant.

The lack of adjustments last week combined with the lack of enthusiasm this week is astounding. Most of us expected us to come out like a cornered animal this week but it was just the opposite, apathy.

 

[anomander]

Is Eric really not a good pocket passer or is it the scheme or the line that makes it necessary for him to run? Watching Culpepper yesterday if he hadn't been able to gain yardage with his feet they probably wouldn't have scored that one touchdown...ugly throwing motion or not. Also I don't think you can discount injuries. Even those of us who don't play football can suffer an injury that effects are performance and even the loss of our job. No?

I think this scheme is designed for QB's to complete 65% of their passes. This offense is reliant on high completion percentages.

How can we not reference injuries? I mean we have a basically 500 QB being replaced by a walkon.

Babers isn't Coach P with decade plus here and a backlog of recruits where injuries should just mean plug the next guy in. He has one real class here.

We could make the case he should've gone full Marrone and dismissed 15 plus kids and got full our JUCO / transfer but that isn't his style.

Sure you can reference injuries, but it's the lack of depth that the issue is, otherwise there won't be a season that goes by where injuries aren't the bail out excuse. The reason for last year's record - Injuries. 2015 - Injuries. 2014 - Injuries. That was literally the excuse for the last 2 years under Shafer, and last year. This year injuries haven't even been that bad. In comparison to most teams, we're actually in pretty good shape. Ultimately, you need to have the depth in place to absorb the injuries because they are inevitable.

EDIT - I'm not blaming the lack of depth on Babers. I realize he has 1 full class. That's more on the prior regime. I just don't like using injuries as the reason for losing since it's not just our team dealing with them.

 

[bothsocksup]

I like how the thought process is Erics not the answer because hes been dinged up. Hes by far our best offensive player and will be next year as well. He may be the most important player to his team in the ACC

 

[Bayside44]

I think this scheme is designed for QB's to complete 65% of their passes. This offense is reliant on high completion percentages.



Sure you can reference injuries, but it's the lack of depth that the issue is, otherwise there won't be a season that goes by where injuries aren't the bail out excuse. The reason for last year's record - Injuries. 2015 - Injuries. 2014 - Injuries. That was literally the excuse for the last 2 years under Shafer, and last year. This year injuries haven't even been that bad. In comparison to most teams, we're actually in pretty good shape. Ultimately, you need to have the depth in place to absorb the injuries because they are inevitable.

EDIT - I'm not blaming the lack of depth on Babers. I realize he has 1 full class. That's more on the prior regime. I just don't like using injuries as the reason for losing since it's not just our team dealing with them.

Injuries and lack of depth to me are semantics in this case, we basically agree.

Losing a junior Eric Dungey is huge (I realize Shafer did too but that was his fault for getting him killed at UL). Prior regime had a bunch of undersized kids that Dino didn't jettison, we could call him to task on that one.

 

[DBCooper]

Nope. Not using injuries as an excuse. Maybe we didn't have the depth to cover the injuries, but injuries are a part of football. Every team in the country is dealing with injuries at this time of the year. We aren't even that bad in comparison. Injuries were used as the excuse the last 2 seasons. Injuries happen. It's football. You need to have the depth to cover them.

If injuries can't be used as an excuse, then the narrative that Clemson only lost because Bryant was out is false.

 

[DBCooper]

It's just very disappointing. The national narrative after the Clemson win was that syracuse deserved to beat Clemson and that it wasn't a fluke... well that's gone out the door.

Maybe for people who didn't watch the game.

 

[rrlbees]

We didn’t mishandle the clemson win and lose our edge. We came back after that game and played very well against Miami and FSU on the road and had a chance to win both.

Then ED for hurt. And it’s not because he’s not durable. He takes more hits than many QBs, but hurting your toe can randomly happen to any player. Maybe he should do more toe weight lifts?

And I contend the team did rally around Mahoney. Look what he did that first half vs WF. May have been the best half of passing all season.

What happened in the second half of WF and yesterday’s game I have no idea. But it’s not much of what people are pushing.

Stuff happens.

 

[anomander]

If injuries can't be used as an excuse, then the narrative that Clemson only lost because Bryant was out is false.

Exactly. I am not discounting our win one bit. Clemson needed to have the depth, or even further, the game plan to cover his loss. I 110% would never discount that win. Not to mention the Syracuse offense was humming that day.

I want to jump through my TV every time someone bails Clemson out by saying Bryant was injured. Injuries are just as much a part of football as special teams. There are reasons programs invest millions on rehab facilities, and preseason training.

 

[anomander]

We didn’t mishandle the clemson win and lose our edge. We came back after that game and played very well against Miami and FSU and had a chance to win both.

Then ED for hurt. And it’s not because he’s not durable. He takes more hits than many QBs, but hurting your toe can randomly happen to any player. Maybe he should do more toe weight lifts?

And I contend the team did rally around Mahoney. Look what he did that first half vs WF. May have been the best half of passing all season.

What happened in the second half of WF and yesterday game I gave no idea. But it’s not much of what people are pushing.

Stuff happens.

He broke his toe on the first play of the game. A called run. He also had a secondary injury. One can contend that Lewis ran him into the ground. Knowing he was banged up they continued to call his number. Part of the reason is that they had to. Eric isn't a QB that you can just drop back and have him throw all game. It's not his game. The point is that if that's how you have to call a game for him to be effective, then he's going to get hurt. Do we have any proof he can make it through a full season? Weighing those factors, I think the next guy should be given every opportunity to win the job. He won't be needed to run the ball 20 times a game to be effective, and in theory, would be less likely to get injured, causing the team to tailspin for the 3rd consecutive season.

 

[cuse309]

Nope. Not using injuries as an excuse. Maybe we didn't have the depth to cover the injuries, but injuries are a part of football. Every team in the country is dealing with injuries at this time of the year. We aren't even that bad in comparison. Injuries were used as the excuse the last 2 seasons. Injuries happen. It's football. You need to have the depth to cover them.

Yeah, but that kind of is a big reason. I understand everyone has injuries, but when you 2nd and 3rd man up don't belong in the ACC, depth becomes an issue. It's nothing to worry about, as Dino will build depth with better recruits. We are not landing a ton of guys in recruiting with only 1 or 2 P5 offers as we did with Shafer. That is why our injuries hurt us more than they hurt a team like Miami.

 

[CIL]

Injuries are only an issue when the depth built behind those injured players are a glaring weakness.

Without ED, this offense really struggles to move the ball. They have put up exactly 13 points in the last 6 quarters, and 7 of them game in garbage time against the Ville.

I think the offense now has 6 or 7 turnovers in our last 2 games along with god knows how many 3 and outs. That combined with our frantic pace does not bode well for our already stressed defense.

Which leads me to this: we have a few kids currently seeing significant playing time on the defense that are not P5 players.

We are now playing for our past recruiting sins. I do not necessarily judge a class by the best players, but rather the depth of the class. The Shafer years had too many misses for us to be able to overcome injuries - we probably have 10 - 15 kids on this roster that will not see meaningful playing time under Babers ever.

Further compounding the back end of the recruiting classes were kids that never even stepped foot on campus. Kids that should be our upperclassmen aren’t even here.

Go look at the 13, 14,and 15 recruiting classes:

Only kid from 13 still here is Avant.

2014 AJ Long, KJ Williams, Denzel Ward, Jalen Harvey, Colton Moskol, Alin Edourd, Naes Howard, Trevon Praater, Lamar Dawson — all gone

2015 Womack, Ealey, Clark, Sheppard, Fredericks, Cross, Guidice, Dunk, Carter, Blair, Ginnetti — all gone.

Some attribution was due to injuries, etc. That being said, not have potentially 21 upperclassmen is a major problem. Sure they can replaced with JUCOs, but this list doesn’t include non-contributors. These are kids that aren’t even with the program!

So while injuries do happen to all programs, I will argue that the depth issues faced by Syracuse are greater than that of a lot of our peers due to abysmal recruiting - not necessarily due to bringing in poor talent, but just to bringing in bodies.

I believe a lot of this gets addressed this offseason BTW.

 

[rrlbees]

He broke his toe on the first play of the game. A called run. He also had a secondary injury. One can contend that Lewis ran him into the ground. Knowing he was banged up they continued to call his number. Part of the reason is that they had to. Eric isn't a QB that you can just drop back and have him throw all game. It's not his game. The point is that if that's how you have to call a game for him to be effective, then he's going to get hurt. Do we have any proof he can make it through a full season? Weighing those factors, I think the next guy should be given every opportunity to win the job. He won't be needed to run the ball 20 times a game to be effective, and in theory, would be less likely to get injured, causing the team to tailspin for the 3rd consecutive season.

A toe is random. His and our bad luck.

And ED will be the full time QB next year. His backup, which I expect will be TD will get mop up duty unless of course ED does get hurt.

 

[cuse309]

I think this scheme is designed for QB's to complete 65% of their passes. This offense is reliant on high completion percentages.



Sure you can reference injuries, but it's the lack of depth that the issue is, otherwise there won't be a season that goes by where injuries aren't the bail out excuse. The reason for last year's record - Injuries. 2015 - Injuries. 2014 - Injuries. That was literally the excuse for the last 2 years under Shafer, and last year. This year injuries haven't even been that bad. In comparison to most teams, we're actually in pretty good shape. Ultimately, you need to have the depth in place to absorb the injuries because they are inevitable.

EDIT - I'm not blaming the lack of depth on Babers. I realize he has 1 full class. That's more on the prior regime. I just don't like using injuries as the reason for losing since it's not just our team dealing with them.

That's always been the crux of the problem. When you're referencing injuries, you're also referencing quality depth. Without quality depth you are not playing with P5 talent anymore. When a kid at NC state, or Miami, or Va Tech goes down, they replace them with another P5 quality athlete. That hasn't been the case under Robinson, Marrone for the most part, or Shafer. The second string guys had offers from Mac Schools, and beyond that they were players with 1AA offers and a couple mid major offers. Dino will build depth by bringing in better athletes. He already is. None of the coaches I mentioned lasted longer than 4 years. It's impossible to build quality depth when you replace your head coach every 3-4 years at a school like Syracuse.

 

[sufandu]

Is Eric really not a good pocket passer or is it the scheme or the line that makes it necessary for him to run? Watching Culpepper yesterday if he hadn't been able to gain yardage with his feet they probably wouldn't have scored that one touchdown...ugly throwing motion or not. Also I don't think you can discount injuries. Even those of us who don't play football can suffer an injury that effects are performance and even the loss of our job. No?

I really think he is an average pocket passer and he isn't comfortable in the pocket. I forget which game it was, FSU maybe, but more than once I saw him leave the pocket before there was any pressure, actually allowing guys that were well blocked to pursue him. Maybe it's the inconsistent line play, but it seems like he has a clock in his head that determines when he takes off versus having a feel for the rush. He also doesn't like to step up in the pocket unless he's just tucking it and running.

It sounds like I'm knocking him, but that's not my intention. He's a playmaker that has been the heart of the offense, just not as a pure pocket passer, at least from my untrained eye.

 

[007]

Injuries are only an issue when the depth built behind those injured players are a glaring weakness.

Without ED, this offense really struggles to move the ball. They have put up exactly 13 points in the last 6 quarters, and 7 of them game in garbage time against the Ville.

I think the offense now has 6 or 7 turnovers in our last 2 games along with god knows how many 3 and outs. That combined with our frantic pace does not bode well for our already stressed defense.

Which leads me to this: we have a few kids currently seeing significant playing time on the defense that are not P5 players.

We are now playing for our past recruiting sins. I do not necessarily judge a class by the best players, but rather the depth of the class. The Shafer years had too many misses for us to be able to overcome injuries - we probably have 10 - 15 kids on this roster that will not see meaningful playing time under Babers ever.

Further compounding the back end of the recruiting classes were kids that never even stepped foot on campus. Kids that should be our upperclassmen aren’t even here.

Go look at the 13, 14,and 15 recruiting classes:

Only kid from 13 still here is Avant.

2014 AJ Long, KJ Williams, Denzel Ward, Jalen Harvey, Colton Moskol, Alin Edourd, Naes Howard, Trevon Praater, Lamar Dawson — all gone

2015 Womack, Ealey, Clark, Sheppard, Fredericks, Cross, Guidice, Dunk, Carter, Blair, Ginnetti — all gone.

Some attribution was due to injuries, etc. That being said, not have potentially 21 upperclassmen is a major problem. Sure they can replaced with JUCOs, but this list doesn’t include non-contributors. These are kids that aren’t even with the program!

So while injuries do happen to all programs, I will argue that the depth issues faced by Syracuse are greater than that of a lot of our peers due to abysmal recruiting - not necessarily due to bringing in poor talent, but just to bringing in bodies.

I believe a lot of this gets addressed this offseason BTW.

Really good post, CIL.

The thing I would add to your point about non P5 players is that even some of the P5 players we do have are undersized; warriors, but undersized. We need to get bigger at the safety, LB, and DE positions.

 

[hungrychuck]

A toe is random. His and our bad luck.

And ED will be the full time QB next year. His backup, which I expect will be TD will get mop up duty unless of course ED does get hurt.

Exactly. And has nothing to do with previous head/neck injuries. With the pounding he has taken, Eric has proven himself to be the opposite of fragile.

I'm sure there will be an open competition at QB because that's what P5 teams do. I'm just as sure that Eric will win it. He'll be one of the top returning QBs in D1 football. And maybe someday -- in the future -- we'll be able to say that about Tommy.