Where's Carmelo gonna end up next season?

[Melancer46]

I think the Celtics should keep their picks. They're going to have the room to add players via free agency. They're the current top seed in the East.

They could be looking at building a dynasty.

They're not even a contender yet IMO, much less a dynasty in the making. Boston will have some decision making to do this offseason.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I hope Melo stays, but it might be smart to trade KP before his value gets exposed and continues to drop like lydon...

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They're not even a contender yet IMO, much less a dynasty in the making. Boston will have some decision making to do this offseason.

Not sure how you can say they're not a contender one game into the playoffs, especially given the circumstances around the team.

 

[Melancer46]

Not sure how you can say they're not a contender one game into the playoffs, especially given the circumstances around the team.

Well we're 83 games into the season now and I haven't believed they're a contender at any point. It's not a one game thing; I just don't think they have a prayer of a chance against the teams in the West. They're a good team but they're a tier or two below the top 3 in the West. The only team that I think has any chance against the West is a locked-in Cavs team and even then, I think they'd struggle.

 

[Knicks411]

It's still the Knicks who took the chance. Admittedly it's a primadonna move by Melo if that's how it went (I don't really remember) but that's not sole blame to him

Sure; but my point was that it was definitely Melo's preference to be moved prior to becoming a FA.

In the short term, yeah, but in the long term if you can have two team controlled stars for 8 years each on rookie contracts and mini maxes... if you're confident in your ability to draft and develop, and I believe Ainge is, why take on the contract money now for stars when you should be a top notch free agent destination with the talent already there?

Because I think the odds of those picks turning into 2 team controlled stars are very unlikely. (They're also going to either need to extend Thomas and eat up a ton of that cap space or lose their best player)

If those picks turn into Towns and John Wall or something, then yeah, they're going to be amazing. But if they turn into Anthony Bennett and Andrea Bargnani, then not so much. Obviously there's a lot of room in the middle, which is where they're going to end up, but the odds are they don't end up with one player better than Butler or George out of those Nets picks.

 

[Melancer46]

Sure; but my point was that it was definitely Melo's preference to be moved prior to becoming a FA.



Because I think the odds of those picks turning into 2 team controlled stars are very unlikely. (They're also going to either need to extend Thomas and eat up a ton of that cap space or lose their best player)

If those picks turn into Towns and John Wall or something, then yeah, they're going to be amazing. But if they turn into Anthony Bennett and Andrea Bargnani, then not so much. Obviously there's a lot of room in the middle, which is where they're going to end up, but the odds are they don't end up with one player better than Butler or George out of those Nets picks.

Once they're paying Isaiah and Horford a combined $70 million per year, I think their "dynasty" potential is over. I highly doubt Danny has the balls to pull the trigger, but if it's me, I'd be trying to trade Isaiah in the offseason.

 

[Knicks411]

Once they're paying Isaiah and Horford a combined $70 million per year, I think their "dynasty" potential is over. I highly doubt Danny has the balls to pull the trigger, but if it's me, I'd be trying to trade Isaiah in the offseason.

I think that might be the play. The odds are really high he just had the best season he's ever gonna have.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Because I think the odds of those picks turning into 2 team controlled stars are very unlikely. (They're also going to either need to extend Thomas and eat up a ton of that cap space or lose their best player)

If those picks turn into Towns and John Wall or something, then yeah, they're going to be amazing. But if they turn into Anthony Bennett and Andrea Bargnani, then not so much. Obviously there's a lot of room in the middle, which is where they're going to end up, but the odds are they don't end up with one player better than Butler or George out of those Nets picks.

The interesting thing is George was the 10th pick and Butler was the 30th pick.:noidea: I'd also say it's not just about getting a player better than Butler or George, it's also about getting a player that may be in that ballpark, plus years of cap room that could bring in other guys that help.

What you're saying completely flies in the face of "The Process ©" and what the 76ers were striving for, by the way.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Once they're paying Isaiah and Horford a combined $70 million per year, I think their "dynasty" potential is over. I highly doubt Danny has the balls to pull the trigger, but if it's me, I'd be trying to trade Isaiah in the offseason.

I agree with that, actually. I'm not inclined to trust Thomas long term.

 

[Knicks411]

The interesting thing is George was the 10th pick and Butler was the 30th pick.:noidea: I'd also say it's not just about getting a player better than Butler or George, it's also about getting a player that may be in that ballpark, plus years of cap room that could bring in other guys that help.

What you're saying completely flies in the face of "The Process ©" and what the 76ers were striving for, by the way.

The Sixers were an example I was going to use; they've had how many high picks and what's the best player they've gotten out of it? Joel Embiid might be amazing, he also may never stay on the court.

I get that Butler and george weren't high picks. But they are awesome players now. Those picks the Celtics have may turn out to be awesome players, but the odds are against it. The odds are neither of them will be as good as either George or Butler are right now. They have a good team right now, if they could turn those future assets into a great player now, they could be really good. (I guess a counter to this is the Warriors would still be the favorite, I do get that)

And all that said, I will definitely look stupid if those picks turn into Towns and Wall, or whatever.

Top 4 picks since 2012, if anyone is curious

2012: Anthony Davis, MKG, Bradley Beal, Dion Waiters
2013: Anthony Bennett, Oladipo, Otto Porter, Cody Zeller
2014: Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Exum
2015: Towns, Russell, Okafor, Porzingis
2016: Simmons, Ingram, Brown, Bender

 

[KaiserUEO]

how come other guys in the league get max deals and their teams are fine, Melo gets 1 and all of a sudden everyone throws their hands in the air and says the Knicks are doomed and cant compete?

basically the answer is amare, bargnani and now noah.

yet Melo takes all the heat...

I hope he stays, id rather watch the Knicks lose with him, than without him...

 

[OttoinGrotto]

how come other guys in the league get max deals and their teams are fine, Melo gets 1 and all of a sudden everyone throws their hands in the air and says the Knicks are doomed and cant compete?

basically the answer is amare, bargnani and now noah.

yet Melo takes all the heat...

I hope he stays, id rather watch the Knicks lose with him, than without him...

I agree with this. Melo was the one that actually had value throughout his contract. Other players can't make the same claim.

 

[Melancer46]

how come other guys in the league get max deals and their teams are fine, Melo gets 1 and all of a sudden everyone throws their hands in the air and says the Knicks are doomed and cant compete?

basically the answer is amare, bargnani and now noah.

yet Melo takes all the heat...

I hope he stays, id rather watch the Knicks lose with him, than without him...

I think it's a combination of the fact that it's New York, the fact that it's Melo, and the fact that he's a really good player rotting away on a team by his choice. People care about the Knicks. People tend to hate Melo as a player. And people that don't hate Melo want to see Melo play on a competitive team. Even without the Noah signing, there was almost zero chance the Knicks are a contender until after Melo has retired.

 

[orangefog]

I think the bottom line is Dolan is sitting on a cash cow and has no interest or incentive to make the Knicks a winner. They fill all the seats anyway and people buy the merchandise whether they win or lose. He just likes to put someone between himself and the blame, so that he can go out in public and do interviews and as soon as someone asks him about anything negative going on with the team, he can defer to Phil.

 

[br801]

how come other guys in the league get max deals and their teams are fine, Melo gets 1 and all of a sudden everyone throws their hands in the air and says the Knicks are doomed and cant compete?

basically the answer is amare, bargnani and now noah.

yet Melo takes all the heat...

I hope he stays, id rather watch the Knicks lose with him, than without him...

I think Melo has now had his fill of losing in NY (no pun intended) and is ready to move on. Don't forget, he was used to making the playoffs every season in Denver. The fact he asked to play in game 82 tells me his Knicks career may be over.

 

[RandygoCuse]

I think Melo has now had his fill of losing in NY (no pun intended) and is ready to move on. Don't forget, he was used to making the playoffs every season in Denver. The fact he asked to play in game 82 tells me his Knicks career may be over.

So what teams does he waive the no-trade clause for:

Lakers
Clippers
Celtics (I know Stevens said no but I think a cheap price may have him reconsidering)
Thunder

Who did I miss

 

[Melancer46]

So what teams does he waive the no-trade clause for:

Lakers
Clippers
Celtics (I know Stevens said no but I think a cheap price may have him reconsidering)
Thunder

Who did I miss

Thunder? No chance.

I suppose it would be LA, LA, Cleveland, and then maybe Chicago, Boston, or Washington (though I don't think Washington would be interested in him).

 

[realorange]

So what teams does he waive the no-trade clause for:

Lakers
Clippers
Celtics (I know Stevens said no but I think a cheap price may have him reconsidering)
Thunder

Who did I miss

Celtics-----Why do you think it would be a cheap price? And it's Ainge making the decision not Stevens.

Danny wants to build a team that can compete against the West not just the East.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If Carmelo is smart he says I won't waive my no trade I want to be a Knick and it kills public support against Philip Jackson.

Philip can't move and if he doesn't want Melo waive him or pay him to sit.

How is that smart from any perspective other than making more bank?
Melo is at the point of his career where he has maybe one move left. He needs to make it a good one, so he can make a couple playoff runs before his career is over. Otherwise he winds up being remembered as a player kind of like Dominique Wilkins or Tracey McGrady - a terrific talent, excellent scorer, but never won anything, in fact, never even got close.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It seems to me that you're implying that it's Melo's fault that the Knicks traded for him instead of waiting until free agency to try to sign him.

Yes, that was a mistake, and it was forced through by Melo to make sure he got the then-max contract from Denver before he left. It was a short-sighted decision on his part since it gutted the Knicks' roster, which was very promising at the time.

If he had waited and then just moved as a free agent that summer, the Knicks would have had a playoff level collection of talent around him. But, no, Melo was focused on max dollars for Melo. Look what that got him, a good year with Amare, a good year with Tyson Chandler, a half a good year with Jeremy Lin. But none of those teams ever went anywhere.

 

[IthacaMatt]

They're not even a contender yet IMO, much less a dynasty in the making. Boston will have some decision making to do this offseason.

They are only a player or two away. And they still have lots of assets.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Celtics-----Why do you think it would be a cheap price? And it's Ainge making the decision not Stevens.

Danny wants to build a team that can compete against the West not just the East.

I think he'll be cheap because the Knicks will come to realize they aren't going to get much. Absolutely Ainge's decision, but I think he consults Stevens to see if Melo is someone who will work in the system.

 

[Melancer46]

They are only a player or two away. And they still have lots of assets.

Sure but acquiring those two players is probably the toughest part of building a contender.

 

[orangefog]

Yes, that was a mistake, and it was forced through by Melo to make sure he got the then-max contract from Denver before he left. It was a short-sighted decision on his part since it gutted the Knicks' roster, which was very promising at the time.

If he had waited and then just moved as a free agent that summer, the Knicks would have had a playoff level collection of talent around him. But, no, Melo was focused on max dollars for Melo. Look what that got him, a good year with Amare, a good year with Tyson Chandler, a half a good year with Jeremy Lin. But none of those teams ever went anywhere.

How much money would he have had to sacrifice to go to NY as a free agent? I think it was over $20M. I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing.

 

[OrangeDW]

How is that smart from any perspective other than making more bank?
Melo is at the point of his career where he has maybe one move left. He needs to make it a good one, so he can make a couple playoff runs before his career is over. Otherwise he winds up being remembered as a player kind of like Dominique Wilkins or Tracey McGrady - a terrific talent, excellent scorer, but never won anything, in fact, never even got close.

He was closer than some remember. His Nuggets gave the Lakers all they could handle in the 2009 WCF. They lost in 6 and were probably a couple Trevor Ariza stolen inbounds plays from winning the series. They would've likely been favored over Orlando in the finals.