Why do I invest in this program?

[anomander]

I have been to a few bigger sec schools for games and I do agree that the allumi tent to stay closer and that due to the southern city's like Atlanta investing in infrastructure and jobs. But look at Syracuse basketball. Go to any road game and there are ton of su fans. Support may not be local but the alumin base is strong. I was watching some dumb tv show over the weekend that had a realtor that was a kicker on su. The guy had a su helmet on his desk. Su for some reason can't raise the donations. I think it's because football has been down and the kids while hear aren't becoming rabid fans so when it comes to getting donations they aren't coming cause they spent ten minutes a game for football

Those big state schools have such an advantage when it comes to investment it's impossible to understate. The kids that grow up in eastern PA, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio grow up as fans of their program. They don't have to go to the school and end up following the program because you're an alumni and you're basically supposed to. Penn St has 3rd generation die hard Penn St alumni, while we have an exchange student from Shanghi, China (true story, they sat in front of me the other day). Who do you think is going to follow the program at a level that they will invest later in life? Sure my example may be a bit extreme, but most of the SU student body isn't from central NY. They have no home grown investment in the program. This is why attendance sucks, and this is why we can't raise any significant money. How do you fix it is the question? As far as basketball the amount of people that attend road games relates to what I just said above. SU has people attend from all over the country. Obviously there will be bigger alumni bases in different parts of the country

 

[Delmar]

Why do I invest in this program?

"But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain. Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?"

--JFK, September 12, 1962

 

[tipphill]

Have some patience. You are young. If I have learned anything over the years, SU football is like a roller coaster ride.

Imagine sitting in an old concrete stadium, discolored from age and with more patches to its concrete walls than old Route 66. Imagine a hall of fame coach who sadly stayed with his sixties style of coaching as the college football world past him by. Ad in the fact that we were losing and losing badly. Still I/we had hope.

Imagine trying to recruit players to play in this stadium. Still I/we had hope.

Imagine sitting in this old stadium with no roof like today. Imagine in November weather as you sat on concrete bleachers in a torrential downpour. It was like sitting in a waterfall. Still, I/we had hope.

Enter a new coach into the program with that same old stadium. He wasn't a very good coach either, but he did have ambition. The best he could do was make sure we had new uniforms. Hope, yes, even then I/we still had it.

I think you know how all this turned out. It was a long time until 1987.

It will get better. It is such a shame we live in a world of instant gratification now. I don't live like that and I refuse to. Just have patience, it will come. For the time being, go to the games and hang out with your friends at tailgate parties. When it does happen, you will be glad you took my advice.
Bill

i did all those things that u talk about including archbold .been going to games since 1960. you are wrong about ben. he could not recruit because of the lack of a stadium and facilities. the game did not pass him by ---he had to play with second and third tier players. if you were watching at the time, you could see the difference in the players. in one of the videos it was discussed that they tried to avoid showing recruits the field. i hardly think that 15yrs would be called instant gratification.
i went through all you did, and I DO NOT RECOMMEND that for anyone.

 

[billorange44]

i did all those things that u talk about including archbold .been going to games since 1960. you are wrong about ben. he could not recruit because of the lack of a stadium and facilities. the game did not pass him by ---he had to play with second and third tier players. if you were watching at the time, you could see the difference in the players. in one of the videos it was discussed that they tried to avoid showing recruits the field. i hardly think that 15yrs would be called instant gratification.
i went through all you did, and I DO NOT RECOMMEND that for anyone.

Tipp, I think you missed my point. I didn't want to go into everything that was bringing the program down in the late sixties. Of course Coach Ben was losing his ability to recruit because of Archbold. He was also fighting the University. Some even said they wanted football dropped or at least go down a division.

Yes, Ben's style of football was getting to be ancient. The modern game was passing him buy. Three yards and a cloud of dust wasn't going to cut it anymore.

I bring up instant gratification because that is today's society.Now if the fan base had to go through a crumbling Archbold, no recruits, the black players strike (remember armed guards at the Kansas game), Forcing Ben to step down, bringing in a coach that was a high school coach, him carrying around blue prints in 1974 to show recruits the new stadium that wouldn't be built for 6 years, going through a season with no home games while they built the dome. Then firing Maloney and hiring coach Mac who many wanted fired after three years.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND that for anyone either. It is a shame any of us had to go through it, but we did. I certainly want us to win. I want the younger fans to feel better about SU football. I am 65. I have seen all of the modern era of college football. I just hope the younger fans can show a little patience. Don't think not winning doesn't make me ugly, because it does. Ask my wife how I was when I got home Saturday night. If i had a dog, I probably would have shot it or at the very least, kicked it. I was that mad.

 

[storange]

Every year when the bubble bursting crapper is played I go through the same stages
1. That's it I'm done
Next day
2 . depression
3. Normalization
4. Start reading about next week
5 Regain sense of hope (irrational though it might be)

This takes place from The moment the game ends to about Wednesday.

In the end , for me at age 56 there is no choice. I will always be there at the dome. Its just part of my Being. I hope more of our shrinking fan base doesn't give up, but its getting hard to blame those that abandon ship.

 

[AlaskaSU]

We invested in a private jet service
We hired a TON of staff this off season
Locker rooms updated
Looking into updating the Dome
It takes time and a ton of money we don't have yet to move this program that was stuck in the 80s, just saying no magic 2 year fix.

Wazoo had a perennial train wreck of a football team. They recently built a 5 story football facility for the players complete with with a barber shop and all the bells and whistles. They are now projected for third place in the Pac 12. It is an arms race out there. Can anyone picture us being picked for third place in the ACC? Our hole is deep.

Odds are stacked against our football team. What other option do we have to get better recruits than to have impressive facilities? Our record does more to repel recruits than it does to attract them. Babers is doing an admirable job recruiting given what he has to work with but it is no where good enough to become a serious contender for one of the major bowls. Now a-days making any old bowl is nothing to write home about. He needs more help from the Univ. if he is to become successful.

I'm worried that we will not even adequately reinvest in basketball. No-one is talking about new residential facilities. Other teams are building lavish ones. Our new locker rooms are a joke. Where are the individual exhaust fans, electrical outlets, internet connections, etc? LOOK: Texas players see new locker room for first time If you think that players do not appreciate facilities, watch these two videos showing WSU and Texas players first takes on new facilities.

If a money losing program like WSU can make the necessary investment why can't a money making program like Cuse Hoops keep up with the facilities arms race? We are in denial that P-5 is a business.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Wazoo had a perennial train wreck of a football team. They recently built a 5 story football facility for the players complete with with a barber shop and all the bells and whistles. They are now projected for third place in the Pac 12. It is an arms race out there. Can anyone picture us being picked for third place in the ACC? Our hole is deep.

Odds are stacked against our football team. What other option do we have to get better recruits than to have impressive facilities? Our record does more to repel recruits than it does to attract them. Babers is doing an admirable job recruiting given what he has to work with but it is no where good enough to become a serious contender for one of the major bowls. Now a-days making any old bowl is nothing to write home about. He needs more help from the Univ. if he is to become successful.

I'm worried that we will not even adequately reinvest in basketball. No-one is talking about new residential facilities. Other teams are building lavish ones. Our new locker rooms are a joke. Where are the individual exhaust fans, electrical outlets, internet connections, etc? LOOK: Texas players see new locker room for first time If you think that players do not appreciate facilities, watch these two videos showing WSU and Texas players first takes on new facilities.

If a money losing program like WSU can make the necessary investment why can't a money making program like Cuse Hoops keep up with the facilities arms race? We are in denial that P-5 is a business.

Always keep in mind, Mike Leach who was a proven HC when he came to WSU started his first 3 seasons at wsu with a record of 12-25, He lost to Nevada, Rutgers and yes Portland St. Dino is going to be fine if given the time and a somewhat reasonable amount of financial support from the administration. Those waiting for a 5 story building for football players it ain't happening.

 

[MSOrange]

Wazoo had a perennial train wreck of a football team. They recently built a 5 story football facility for the players complete with with a barber shop and all the bells and whistles. They are now projected for third place in the Pac 12. It is an arms race out there. Can anyone picture us being picked for third place in the ACC? Our hole is deep.

Odds are stacked against our football team. What other option do we have to get better recruits than to have impressive facilities? Our record does more to repel recruits than it does to attract them. Babers is doing an admirable job recruiting given what he has to work with but it is no where good enough to become a serious contender for one of the major bowls. Now a-days making any old bowl is nothing to write home about. He needs more help from the Univ. if he is to become successful.

I'm worried that we will not even adequately reinvest in basketball. No-one is talking about new residential facilities. Other teams are building lavish ones. Our new locker rooms are a joke. Where are the individual exhaust fans, electrical outlets, internet connections, etc? LOOK: Texas players see new locker room for first time If you think that players do not appreciate facilities, watch these two videos showing WSU and Texas players first takes on new facilities.

If a money losing program like WSU can make the necessary investment why can't a money making program like Cuse Hoops keep up with the facilities arms race? We are in denial that P-5 is a business.

Not sure the Washington State model is what we want to follow. If we truly have the money, then we definitely need to be using it though

WSU athletic department figures to lose more than $10 million again, but plan in place to get solvent

 

[TheCusian]

Wazoo had a perennial train wreck of a football team. They recently built a 5 story football facility for the players complete with with a barber shop and all the bells and whistles. They are now projected for third place in the Pac 12. It is an arms race out there. Can anyone picture us being picked for third place in the ACC? Our hole is deep.

Odds are stacked against our football team. What other option do we have to get better recruits than to have impressive facilities? Our record does more to repel recruits than it does to attract them. Babers is doing an admirable job recruiting given what he has to work with but it is no where good enough to become a serious contender for one of the major bowls. Now a-days making any old bowl is nothing to write home about. He needs more help from the Univ. if he is to become successful.

I'm worried that we will not even adequately reinvest in basketball. No-one is talking about new residential facilities. Other teams are building lavish ones. Our new locker rooms are a joke. Where are the individual exhaust fans, electrical outlets, internet connections, etc? LOOK: Texas players see new locker room for first time If you think that players do not appreciate facilities, watch these two videos showing WSU and Texas players first takes on new facilities.

If a money losing program like WSU can make the necessary investment why can't a money making program like Cuse Hoops keep up with the facilities arms race? We are in denial that P-5 is a business.

They hired the right guy and gave him time. I'm not sure the building is the difference maker there. We need to continue to invest, but smartly. No nap rooms.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

They hired the right guy and gave him time. I'm not sure the building is the difference maker there. We need to continue to invest, but smartly. No nap rooms.

Nope, get the HC and give him time

 

[TheCusian]

Nope, get the HC and give him time

"Nope"? I think we are agreeing

 

[baggerbob]

I'm a diehard Cuse fan. Born with Orange Blood in my veins. I'm 28 years old. You think I need instant gratification? I just need any gratification. I've seen two "good" seasons in my life that I was old enough to remember. I've invested a ridiculous amount of time and money into the program. I'm not one of the fans here that is giving up or any of that, but I don't blame those people either. If those people are as diehard as me, I understand the pain they go through watching their favorite team disappoint week after week and year after year. It's really hard to stomach. I've never seen a top 25 Cuse team before unless I look them up in history books or youtube videos from 30 years ago. I am part the lost generation of Cuse fans. Part of the reason we have empty games every week is because people between 21-35 years old have never seen Cuse actually win games before. And the people that have seen Cuse win before are too old to go to games anymore. It's been 20 years of below average football. You can't sustain a fan base on that.

There are those like me who continue to believe and who will never give up on the program they were born into, but we are few and far between and growing fewer by the year.

I remember watching Jim Brown in the Cotton Bowl in 1957 when I was 10, and i still go to the games. Sit in section 129, row B, will always be a fan. After Czonka left in 1968, we all waited until 1987, for another great team, but we still were fans. That was 19 years, so some of us have stayed fans through bad periods. Rome wasn't built in a day, and good football teams take time to build, with a good coach. The year before Mac went 11-0-1, they went 5-6,and people wanted him gone.

 

[Stern]

I remember watching Jim Brown in the Cotton Bowl in 1957 when I was 10, and i still go to the games. Sit in section 129, row B, will always be a fan. After Czonka left in 1968, we all waited until 1987, for another great team, but we still were fans. That was 19 years, so some of us have stayed fans through bad periods. Rome wasn't built in a day, and good football teams take time to build, with a good coach. The year before Mac went 11-0-1, they went 5-6,and people wanted him gone.

Everything you say is true. But the landscape has changed though in the college football world.The divide between the "Have's" and "Have-More's" is huge. And then there is a group of "Have-Not's" who have zero chance to compete.

In the past you could ride out a rough wave no matter how long it was, and wait till when you got good again and you got that special coach or player to turn things around. With the money involved these days that's impossible. There is a group of schools that are playing at another level than the rest of the field. And unless you go toe-to-toe with them $$$ money wise you can't compete and never will.

Just how I see things

 

[nzm136]

Everything you say is true. But the landscape has changed though in the college football world.The divide between the "Have's" and "Have-More's" is huge. And then there is a group of "Have-Not's" who have zero chance to compete.

In the past you could ride out a rough wave no matter how long it was, and wait till when you got good again and you got that special coach or player to turn things around. With the money involved these days that's impossible. There is a group of schools that are playing at another level than the rest of the field. And unless you go toe-to-toe with them $$$ money wise you can't compete and never will.

Just how I see things

I think that major stadium renovations will be a HUGE shot in the arm for the program.

And, I think that those renovations are inevitable, but they won't happen w/o substantial political will, both locally and on a state level.

Steph Minor really screwed the pooch when she didn't act on that $500 MM plan to build the proposed off campus stadium.

 

[Stern]

I think that major stadium renovations will be a HUGE shot in the arm for the program.

And, I think that those renovations are inevitable, but they won't happen w/o substantial political will, both locally and on a state level.

Steph Minor really screwed the pooch when she didn't act on that $500 MM plan to build the proposed off campus stadium.

I agree stadium renovation helps but isn't nearly enough to make Syracuse Football a "real player" in the college football world. As much as we laugh at the "nap rooms" and indoor "wiffle ball" fields some other schools have, those are the things that are needed to compete. SU will never be in the market for the same level of talent/recruits as those schools. And while having a bunch of 5 star recruits doesn't guarantee you anything on the field it sure as heck gives you a giant step up on everyone else who is playing with 2 and 3 star recruits.

In the past SU could steal a few Top recruits because recruits weren't tempted with nap rooms, wiffle ball fields, video game rooms...etc. And you could sell a kid on the school and the tradition of the program. Nowadays its tough to get a kid who is being offered the moon and the sun and who is able to live in the lap of luxury for 4 or 5 years with nap rooms, endless free video games, and such. As much as old guys like myself and others on this board laugh at that and don't think its important, we aren't in the mind of an 18 or 19 year old who sees that as the greatest thing ever presented to them in their short lives!

 

[nzm136]

I agree stadium renovation helps but isn't nearly enough to make Syracuse Football a "real player" in the college football world. As much as we laugh at the "nap rooms" and indoor "wiffle ball" fields some other schools have, those are the things that are needed to compete. SU will never be in the market for the same level of talent/recruits as those schools. And while having a bunch of 5 star recruits doesn't guarantee you anything on the field it sure as heck gives you a giant step up on everyone else who is playing with 2 and 3 star recruits.

In the past SU could steal a 4 and 5 star recruit because recruits weren't tempted with nap rooms, wiffle ball fields, video game rooms...etc. Nowadays its tough to get a kid who is being offered that and being able to live in the lap of luxury for 4 or 5 years. As much as old guys like myself and others on this board laugh at that and don't think its important, we aren't in the mind of an 18 or 19 year old who sees that as the greatest thing ever presented to them in their short lives!

It depends on what you call "a real player." Will we be Alabama? No. Will we be Baylor (under Art), TCU, Stanford? Oklahoma State? Maybe.

**And to be clear, I mean occasional great teams like we had in '87 (and like those schools have had in the last couple of years), occasional 4-8/5-7 teams, and mostly pretty good teams.

 

[billorange44]

I remember watching Jim Brown in the Cotton Bowl in 1957 when I was 10, and i still go to the games. Sit in section 129, row B, will always be a fan. After Czonka left in 1968, we all waited until 1987, for another great team, but we still were fans. That was 19 years, so some of us have stayed fans through bad periods. Rome wasn't built in a day, and good football teams take time to build, with a good coach. The year before Mac went 11-0-1, they went 5-6,and people wanted him gone.

Somebody besides myself gets it.

 

[orangecuse]

Everything you say is true. But the landscape has changed though in the college football world.The divide between the "Have's" and "Have-More's" is huge. And then there is a group of "Have-Not's" who have zero chance to compete.

In the past you could ride out a rough wave no matter how long it was, and wait till when you got good again and you got that special coach or player to turn things around. With the money involved these days that's impossible. There is a group of schools that are playing at another level than the rest of the field. And unless you go toe-to-toe with them $$$ money wise you can't compete and never will.

Just how I see things

I agree stadium renovation helps but isn't nearly enough to make Syracuse Football a "real player" in the college football world. As much as we laugh at the "nap rooms" and indoor "wiffle ball" fields some other schools have, those are the things that are needed to compete. SU will never be in the market for the same level of talent/recruits as those schools. And while having a bunch of 5 star recruits doesn't guarantee you anything on the field it sure as heck gives you a giant step up on everyone else who is playing with 2 and 3 star recruits.

In the past SU could steal a few Top recruits because recruits weren't tempted with nap rooms, wiffle ball fields, video game rooms...etc. And you could sell a kid on the school and the tradition of the program. Nowadays its tough to get a kid who is being offered the moon and the sun and who is able to live in the lap of luxury for 4 or 5 years with nap rooms, endless free video games, and such. As much as old guys like myself and others on this board laugh at that and don't think its important, we aren't in the mind of an 18 or 19 year old who sees that as the greatest thing ever presented to them in their short lives!

I'm a realist, so I find your posts dead on here. Unfortunately, I don't ever see us being able to compete for an ACC title, let alone a national championship. As you mention, it's not a level playing field today and the gap is so much more to overcome. My expectation that I'd be quite content and happy with is SU getting to top 25 status relatively regularly and 2nd/3rd tier type bowl games.

 

[AlaskaSU]

In the past all you needed was a good coach and reputation to attract recruits. Archibold had concrete seats and no roof and that was before so called global warming. Times have changed. The pros make millions. Therefore, the future pros have a reasonable expectation to be treated like royalty. When it comes to recruiting, facilities now count more than they ever did in the past. Babers cannot, and will not get the recruits, we need to compete with top ten, or maybe even top 20, schools without strong financial support from the University.

The reason that our pipedream is a winning record is that we see it as a necessity for getting better recruits. A winning record will get us better recruits, but it will not get us the best recruits, the ones we need to compete for a major bowl. Half of all teams have winning records.

Recruiting has two parts; 1) reputation as represented by both the record on the field and the coach, and 2) facilities. They are both important. It is misguided to play down the importance of either one.

In summary; it is no longer ; 'win one for the gipper', it is 'show me the money'.

 

[orangecuse]

I remember watching Jim Brown in the Cotton Bowl in 1957 when I was 10, and i still go to the games. Sit in section 129, row B, will always be a fan. After Czonka left in 1968, we all waited until 1987, for another great team, but we still were fans. That was 19 years, so some of us have stayed fans through bad periods. Rome wasn't built in a day, and good football teams take time to build, with a good coach. The year before Mac went 11-0-1, they went 5-6,and people wanted him gone.

As orange in va alludes to though, you've experienced these memorable moments first hand, and, so to speak, have seen Rome built. The lost generation he is of and cites hasn't, which as stated, really makes rooting for the Orange today (from their perspective) truly a horse of a different color.

 

[TheCusian]

I agree stadium renovation helps but isn't nearly enough to make Syracuse Football a "real player" in the college football world. As much as we laugh at the "nap rooms" and indoor "wiffle ball" fields some other schools have, those are the things that are needed to compete. SU will never be in the market for the same level of talent/recruits as those schools. And while having a bunch of 5 star recruits doesn't guarantee you anything on the field it sure as heck gives you a giant step up on everyone else who is playing with 2 and 3 star recruits.

In the past SU could steal a few Top recruits because recruits weren't tempted with nap rooms, wiffle ball fields, video game rooms...etc. And you could sell a kid on the school and the tradition of the program. Nowadays its tough to get a kid who is being offered the moon and the sun and who is able to live in the lap of luxury for 4 or 5 years with nap rooms, endless free video games, and such. As much as old guys like myself and others on this board laugh at that and don't think its important, we aren't in the mind of an 18 or 19 year old who sees that as the greatest thing ever presented to them in their short lives!

No - just wins with an exciting style and a new Dome will get us 75% of the way there. We get to 8/9 wins per year on the regular, and someone wants to invest fine.

HS/College kids like nice stuff but you're making them out to be something this generation is not.

 

[Stern]

No - just wins with an exciting style and a new Dome will get us 75% of the way there. We get to 8/9 wins per year on the regular, and someone wants to invest fine.

HS/College kids like nice stuff but you're making them out to be something this generation is not.

1) We can't get to 6 wins and we just lost to Middle Tennessee St at home. 8/9 win season may not be realistic being in the ACC even scheduling cupcakes on the OOC schedule. I mean if we can't schedule MTU at home on the OOC schedule and get a win there isn't much lower you can go on the FBS level.

2) HS/College kids like nice stuff (and free stuff) and I am telling you what this generation 100% is. Most of these top rated recruits come from rough upbringings (not all, but most) and when a school can give them literally a play house to live in for 4 or 5 years with everything they ever dreamed of and lets be honest not so tough academics to where they are "pushed" in the classroom...a place like Syracuse can never compete.

The college football world has changed and it isn't going back to the old days.

 

[TheCusian]

1) We can't get to 6 wins and we just lost to Middle Tennessee St at home. 8/9 win season may not be realistic being in the ACC even scheduling cupcakes on the OOC schedule. I mean if we can't schedule MTU at home on the OOC schedule and get a win there isn't much lower you can go on the FBS level.

2) HS/College kids like nice stuff (and free stuff) and I am telling you what this generation 100% is. Most of these top rated recruits come from rough upbringings (not all, but most) and when a school can give them literally a play house to live in for 4 or 5 years with everything they ever dreamed of and lets be honest not so tough academics to where they are "pushed" in the classroom...a place like Syracuse can never compete.

The college football world has changed and it isn't going back to the old days.

1. Of course 8-9 win seasons are possible. So many people bailed on Dino at the first sign of trouble. Losses to lesser teams happen. Ask VaTech.

2. My wife works with college kids, I worked with HS kids, my Mom works with college kids. Yeah, sure sometimes that stuff works on some kids. I'd just be careful painting with that broad brush. There are a lot of awesome college kids who are way more selfless than I ever was. Student athletes too.

 

[orange_in_VA]

As orange in va alludes to though, you've experienced these memorable moments first hand, and, so to speak, have seen Rome built. The lost generation he is of and cites hasn't, which as stated, really makes rooting for the Orange today (from their perspective) truly a horse of a different color.

My thoughts exactly. I almost posted something like this myself, but I thought it went without needing to be explained after my initial post.