Why do I invest in this program?

[CuseLegacy]

I think we can all agree that on the grand scheme of things 22 million doesn't go very far but they made it work when they made a lot less in the big east. When we joined the acc we. All assumed that extra money would get funneled down into the programs and we would see major improvements. Well we aren't. We have seen the dome go on the back burner due to funding and politics. We have seen a few nice things like an ipf that was done well on a smaller budget. We have seen weightroom additions and the dome locker rooms. The problem is we see the dome locker rooms and most of us are underwhelmed and expected more. Yes the staff is getting more funding but it's simply not enough and su needs to recognize that.

If you look around at those improvements you mentioned it comes from booster money...the IPF, the football wing, etc. It was that way when we were in the Big East and the same holds true now. Without donations from boosters you can't build those things or make the renovations needed. It always comes back to the same thing. Win and the money will come.

 

[blizz]

The IPF is underwhelming?

ooooooooooookay

I don't even know where to begin with this. It's like no one has ever registered a critique around here...







Or maybe, maybe some are just incapable of hearing an argument that disturbs the fantasy of their everyday life. So be it.

 

[CuseLegacy]

$22 million goes a lot farther than the $8 million that we got from the Big East. I really don't see a $14 million dollar difference in the program. Answer honestly, do you see it?

I know and understand that most of everyone else's facilities come from booster donations.

My point is that because SU doesn't have huge boosters, should they just sit around and watch as other programs get farther ahead of us? Because that is "The way we have always done it".

Clearly waiting for huge boosters to invest in the program isn't working.
Sitting around waiting for state money that may or may not be coming isn't working.
What they have done up to this point isn't working.

Definition of insanity.

Time to try something different or apply a different way of attacking the problem.

Side note, the sideline bell stinks.

Here is a Forbes article from 2014. Maybe it can explain better than I can why booster money is a necessity. Click on the links within the paragraph I posted.
The Most Valuable Conferences In College Sports 2014


"The nation's collegiate athletic programs receive healthy cuts of conference distributions - last year most Big 12 schools got $22 million (new members TCU and WVU only received half-shares of $11 million) - but the schools have their own expenses to account for. And those expenses can be incredibly high. According to the numbers in the Department of Education's financial database, half of the members of the ten most valuable conferences lost money last year, and only one-third of them netted a profit of $1 million or more.

There may be a lot of money getting passed around but, for most schools, at the end of the day there isn't always a whole lot left over. "

 

[orange79]

I don't even know where to begin with this. It's like no one has ever registered a critique around here...







Or maybe, maybe some are just incapable of hearing an argument that disturbs the fantasy of their everyday life. So be it.

Got it.

Later - gotta go feed my unicorn some more rainbows.

 

[CuseOnly]

Here is a Forbes article from 2014. Maybe it can explain better than I can why booster money is a necessity. Click on the links within the paragraph I posted.
The Most Valuable Conferences In College Sports 2014


"The nation's collegiate athletic programs receive healthy cuts of conference distributions - last year most Big 12 schools got $22 million (new members TCU and WVU only received half-shares of $11 million) - but the schools have their own expenses to account for. And those expenses can be incredibly high. According to the numbers in the Department of Education's financial database, half of the members of the ten most valuable conferences lost money last year, and only one-third of them netted a profit of $1 million or more.

There may be a lot of money getting passed around but, for most schools, at the end of the day there isn't always a whole lot left over. "

Again, not disputing what you are saying. My point is that strategy is clearly not working for Syracuse University.

NVM, forget everything I said, I take it back, we should continue to wait, it seems to be working just fine.

 

[CuseOnly]

The IPF is underwhelming?

ooooooooooookay

The IPF gets us out of the 20th century. We look at it as an upgrade because we had crap before.

It won't be too long before most G5 schools have one if they don't already...then guess what, we will be behind again.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

My point is that because SU doesn't have huge boosters, should they just sit around and watch as other programs get farther ahead of us? Because that is "The way we have always done it".

Clearly waiting for huge boosters to invest in the program isn't working.

Definition of insanity.

Time to try something different or apply a different way of attacking the problem.

Bingo! A major problem is the Orange Club itself. The leadership ONLY cares about the few HUGE donors we do have and does little to cultivate any other donors. If you're not a 6-figure donor, you matter very little to the Orange Club.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Again, not disputing what you are saying. My point is that strategy is clearly not working for Syracuse University.

NVM, forget everything I said, I take it back, we should continue to wait, it seems to be working just fine.

If it didn't work then there wouldn't be the Melo Center. There is at least one member of this forum that helped fund that project. There are boosters/alums who have given large sums for improvements in facilities at the university and not just on the athletic side. Fund raising for a major renovation like they are talking about for the Dome takes time. And again winning would help immensely.

 

[kirbivore]

This loss is sad because I'm losing faith in Dino, and since our University isn't willing to partake in any semblance of a CFB arms race, he's really our only hope.

The ACC is becoming a Football Power and I'm going to resign myself to the fact that the powers that be are totally ok with cashing that P5 check and being the Rutgers/Vandy of this conference.

Just apathetic and sad really. Not mad. Not angry. Just not caring for the time being.

I'm thinking more like Kansas. Hoops first and cash checks in football.

 

[HSPORANGE]

They always say know when it's time to cut losses on a bad investment.

My wife always asks me why do I put myself through this every week, every season.

And I do not have a good answer anymore.

Enough with the hope and change malarkey.

I'm taking a break for a while. Enough is enough.

Feel better? See you Saturday

 

[orange_in_VA]

Have some patience. You are young. If I have learned anything over the years, SU football is like a roller coaster ride.

Imagine sitting in an old concrete stadium, discolored from age and with more patches to its concrete walls than old Route 66. Imagine a hall of fame coach who sadly stayed with his sixties style of coaching as the college football world past him by. Ad in the fact that we were losing and losing badly. Still I/we had hope.

Imagine trying to recruit players to play in this stadium. Still I/we had hope.

Imagine sitting in this old stadium with no roof like today. Imagine in November weather as you sat on concrete bleachers in a torrential downpour. It was like sitting in a waterfall. Still, I/we had hope.

Enter a new coach into the program with that same old stadium. He wasn't a very good coach either, but he did have ambition. The best he could do was make sure we had new uniforms. Hope, yes, even then I/we still had it.

I think you know how all this turned out. It was a long time until 1987.

It will get better. It is such a shame we live in a world of instant gratification now. I don't live like that and I refuse to. Just have patience, it will come. For the time being, go to the games and hang out with your friends at tailgate parties. When it does happen, you will be glad you took my advice.
Bill

I'm a diehard Cuse fan. Born with Orange Blood in my veins. I'm 28 years old. You think I need instant gratification? I just need any gratification. I've seen two "good" seasons in my life that I was old enough to remember. I've invested a ridiculous amount of time and money into the program. I'm not one of the fans here that is giving up or any of that, but I don't blame those people either. If those people are as diehard as me, I understand the pain they go through watching their favorite team disappoint week after week and year after year. It's really hard to stomach. I've never seen a top 25 Cuse team before unless I look them up in history books or youtube videos from 30 years ago. I am part the lost generation of Cuse fans. Part of the reason we have empty games every week is because people between 21-35 years old have never seen Cuse actually win games before. And the people that have seen Cuse win before are too old to go to games anymore. It's been 20 years of below average football. You can't sustain a fan base on that.

There are those like me who continue to believe and who will never give up on the program they were born into, but we are few and far between and growing fewer by the year.

 

[Cusefan78]

I'm a diehard Cuse fan. Born with Orange Blood in my veins. I'm 28 years old. You think I need instant gratification? I just need any gratification. I've seen two "good" seasons in my life that I was old enough to remember. I've invested a ridiculous amount of time and money into the program. I'm not one of the fans here that is giving up or any of that, but I don't blame those people either. If those people are as diehard as me, I understand the pain they go through watching their favorite team disappoint week after week and year after year. It's really hard to stomach. I've never seen a top 25 Cuse team before unless I look them up in history books or youtube videos from 30 years ago. I am part the lost generation of Cuse fans. Part of the reason we have empty games every week is because people between 21-35 years old have never seen Cuse actually win games before. And the people that have seen Cuse win before are too old to go to games anymore. It's been 20 years of below average football. You can't sustain a fan base on that.

There are those like me who continue to believe and who will never give up on the program they were born into, but we are few and far between and growing fewer by the year.

Very well said. I'm almost 40 and lived through the some amazing games. I remember being a punching bag for Miami for years until mcnabb torched them. I remember almost beating Tennessee in the dome. How about Florida, beating psu in 87. Those distant memories are all I have and honestly it's not enough anymore. It doesn't take 20 years for anything to turn around and the only people to blame are the university, including the ad, and board of trustees. They want fans week in and week out but all we want is a decent team that doesnt punch us in the gut every week. They want our money well guess what I want a return. You don't keep buying stock in a company that constantly drops so why should we keep buying su football stock. Fixing the program shouldn't be this difficult. Lesser teams are competitive. The secret is money. If su is serious then spend money and the recruits and fans will come. They hired Dino and are paying him appropriately now they need to get the dome Reno or a new stadium project going. Not just release plans I mean dig a hole and build. They need to hire the appropriate staff like nutrientionist. They need to show these recruits and the fans they mean business and are dedicated to making it work. If they aren't then I hope the acc wakes up and tosses us in favor of a school that wants to invest. Honestly if su dropped to d2 and was competive I would be at every game but I just can't stomach these losses to crap teams or getting blown out on national tv or listening to people saying what a joke we are. I sat through every grob game every marrone game and for what, To be laughed at. Well enough is enough. Dino brings us hope but in the end he isn't a miracle worker. He's a talented man without the full backing of the university. I really hope su finally figures it out that he is our last hope cause honestly if he leaves without turning it around I don't see us getting lucky on another coach again.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Very well said. I'm almost 40 and lived through the some amazing games. I remember being a punching bag for Miami for years until mcnabb torched them. I remember almost beating Tennessee in the dome. How about Florida, beating psu in 87. Those distant memories are all I have and honestly it's not enough anymore. It doesn't take 20 years for anything to turn around and the only people to blame are the university, including the ad, and board of trustees. They want fans week in and week out but all we want is a decent team that doesnt punch us in the gut every week. They want our money well guess what I want a return. You don't keep buying stock in a company that constantly drops so why should we keep buying su football stock. Fixing the program shouldn't be this difficult. Lesser teams are competitive. The secret is money. If su is serious then spend money and the recruits and fans will come. They hired Dino and are paying him appropriately now they need to get the dome Reno or a new stadium project going. Not just release plans I mean dig a hole and build. They need to hire the appropriate staff like nutrientionist. They need to show these recruits and the fans they mean business and are dedicated to making it work. If they aren't then I hope the acc wakes up and tosses us in favor of a school that wants to invest. Honestly if su dropped to d2 and was competive I would be at every game but I just can't stomach these losses to crap teams or getting blown out on national tv or listening to people saying what a joke we are. I sat through every grob game every marrone game and for what, To be laughed at. Well enough is enough. Dino brings us hope but in the end he isn't a miracle worker. He's a talented man without the full backing of the university. I really hope su finally figures it out that he is our last hope cause honestly if he leaves without turning it around I don't see us getting lucky on another coach again.

While I agree with a lot of what you said and the last 15 + years has been absolutely brutal the day SU drops Div 1 football is the day I pack it in. Id rather go winless for the next decade then drop out of Div 1.

 

[Cusefan78]

While I agree with a lot of what you said and the last 15 + years has been absolutely brutal the day SU drops Div 1 football is the day I pack it in. Id rather go winless for the next decade then drop out of Div 1.

Trust me I don't want that to happen I'm just saying they need to own what there plans are. If they want to be a check casher like they have been for 15 years then fine I'm out but if they want to show commitment then I'm standing by my team.

 

[FAL]

While I agree with a lot of what you said and the last 15 + years has been absolutely brutal the day SU drops Div 1 football is the day I pack it in. Id rather go winless for the next decade then drop out of Div 1.

The faith = belief without proof can't last 2-3 years more, much less a decade. This loss was a real gut punch for the faithful. What happens if we go 4-8 again this year? 3-9? Worse?

To paraphrase Thomas Paine: these are truly times to try SU fans' souls...

 

[Bayside44]

They also have about 40% more students that SU does. Each year. That's a lot more donation potential.

Who basically all stay close to home who many are second and third generation alumni. People who make these comparisons have no idea what those places are like

 

[FasterCuse]

The faith = belief without proof can't last 2-3 years more, much less a decade. This loss was a real gut punch for the faithful. What happens if we go 4-8 again this year? 3-9? Worse?

To paraphrase Thomas Paine: these are truly times to try SU fans' souls...

I have faith in Babers, and I hope he'll right the ship. But I agree that I can't take another 3 years. If he doesn't go 7-5 or better next year with his recruits and a slightly easier schedule I think I'll be done with SU football for a while.

On another note,I think that the purse string holders (BOT, CFO, budget office, controller department) really needs to determine what they want to be. Either decide football will be the whipping boy of the ACC (much like Kansas) or invest in the program in a meaningful way. We've been going down the middle road for far to long and it's obviously not working.

 

[Cusefan78]

I have faith in Babers, and I hope he'll right the ship. But I agree that I can't take another 3 years. If he doesn't go 7-5 or better next year with his recruits and a slightly easier schedule I think I'll be done with SU football for a while.

On another note,I think that the purse string holders (BOT, CFO, budget office, controller department) really needs to determine what they want to be. Either decide football will be the whipping boy of the ACC (much like Kansas) or invest in the program in a meaningful way. We've been going down the middle road for far to long and it's obviously not working.

Middle? Most of us would accept middle but what we are stuck in the off ramp or maybe the on ramp now that they hired Dino and are paying him. But we are still stuck with a
Flat tire right now.

 

[TheCusian]

Middle? Most of us would accept middle but what we are stuck in the off ramp or maybe the on ramp now that they hired Dino and are paying him. But we are still stuck with a
Flat tire right now.

No - this is wrong as of Wildhack. He's spending on football.

 

[Cusefan78]

Who basically all stay close to home who many are second and third generation alumni. People who make these comparisons have no idea what those places are like

I have been to a few bigger sec schools for games and I do agree that the allumi tent to stay closer and that due to the southern city's like Atlanta investing in infrastructure and jobs. But look at Syracuse basketball. Go to any road game and there are ton of su fans. Support may not be local but the alumin base is strong. I was watching some dumb tv show over the weekend that had a realtor that was a kicker on su. The guy had a su helmet on his desk. Su for some reason can't raise the donations. I think it's because football has been down and the kids while hear aren't becoming rabid fans so when it comes to getting donations they aren't coming cause they spent ten minutes a game for football

 

[FasterCuse]

No - this is wrong as of Wildhack. He's spending on football.

I think Wildhack's mind and heart are in the right place when it comes to football, but he only has so much power when it comes to how SU allocates their revenue. I do agree though that he is going to do everything within his power to support Cuse football and basketball.

 

[Cusefan78]

No - this is wrong as of Wildhack. He's spending on football.

Agree with that. But they aren't doing enough yet. I have heard the rumors of him wanting to lock down babers if he keeps this recruiting class together and or makes a bowl. That's great but he needs more to do his job

 

[TheCusian]

I think Wildhack's mind and heart are in the right place when it comes to football, but he only has so much power when it comes to how SU allocates their revenue. I do agree though that he is going to do everything within his power to support Cuse football and basketball.

wasn't there a report that said we're in the top half of the league in spending on support staff? I dunno. Too lazy to look it up

 

[Bayside44]

I have been to a few bigger sec schools for games and I do agree that the allumi tent to stay closer and that due to the southern city's like Atlanta investing in infrastructure and jobs. But look at Syracuse basketball. Go to any road game and there are ton of su fans. Support may not be local but the alumin base is strong. I was watching some dumb tv show over the weekend that had a realtor that was a kicker on su. The guy had a su helmet on his desk. Su for some reason can't raise the donations. I think it's because football has been down and the kids while hear aren't becoming rabid fans so when it comes to getting donations they aren't coming cause they spent ten minutes a game for football

I was at Cuse when football was great and now my age group should be the ones becoming the bigger donors. The school never really cultivated it. In those days they didn't have to I suppose. There is a lot of work to do on that front.

 

[Bayside44]

I have been to a few bigger sec schools for games and I do agree that the allumi tent to stay closer and that due to the southern city's like Atlanta investing in infrastructure and jobs. But look at Syracuse basketball. Go to any road game and there are ton of su fans. Support may not be local but the alumin base is strong. I was watching some dumb tv show over the weekend that had a realtor that was a kicker on su. The guy had a su helmet on his desk. Su for some reason can't raise the donations. I think it's because football has been down and the kids while hear aren't becoming rabid fans so when it comes to getting donations they aren't coming cause they spent ten minutes a game for football

Most of my Cuse games are roadies living in VA. We have a good mix of ex pat CNYers and alumni at those for the big 3. They need to be cultivated into donors. But for most of them 2 trips a year to stubhub and they get what they want.