Wildhack pull the trigger Monday or after the Pitt game??

[Cusefan95]

Planning for the downside is having the money to buyout the contract. Do you normally charge big ticket items without knowing how to pay for them.

Regardless if su wants to make a change and cares about it’s team then 10 million or whatever the buyout isn’t insurmountable even for a private university. There is almost no chance in a turnaround with this staff. Even if a miracle happens next weekend Dino has shown me nothing in 6 years. The fact of the matter is you are what your record is and he has a losing record.

There's a concept in macroeconomic theory called "opportunity cost". The issue is that whatever resources get spent on one thing, CANNOT be spent on another.

Its really easy to armchair quarterback, and be baffled why other people won't spend their (limited) resources in the way you would prefer. That the buyout "isn't insurmountable" isn't the issue. Its that there's limited resources, and something won't get done that would also have value to the university as a whole if the money gets spent on a buyout.

As others have said, universities that buy out coaches are often doing that with money boosters pony up specifically to pay to dump a coach. I see a lot of angst from people that Syracuse might not choose to spend their own money to dump Dino - I have yet to see the link to a GoFundMe that would, possibly, actually matter.

(And "not going to games anymore" if Dino gets fired is not likely to lead to the result you want. If I was in charge of spending and knew I had declining revenues from attendance, major uncertainty it could be turned around sustainably, AND lots of other things I wanted/needed to spend money on - the last thing I would do is dedicate more resources to the AD. Alabama was still drawing 92,000 fans to games when Mike Shula was coaching them to sub-500 seasons - that they have revenue certainty is a big part of why they can and do make changes more quickly than Syracuse. While that may seem counter-intuitive - Its also reality. That northeastern fans in general and Syracuse fans specifically are very fickle contributes to the tendency to hang on to losing coaches longer than other schools would.)

 

[Willy75]

Last second losses that were a result of poor game management by the head coach. Don’t forget that Willy.

Unless half the team enters the portal after Pitt, Dino is here for at least one more year; SU simply won’t pay millions to replace him. If the job were to become open (which it won’t) Marrone is not coming back, Moorhead is not coming here, the Coastal coach isn’t and the Louisiana coach isn’t. There are a number of desirable jobs with lots more resources already open with more to come. What we’d get as the next savior is another MAC coach, or a P5 or NFL assistant most folks haven’t heard of.

 

[Cusefan95]

Structuring the contract on the back end to give yourself an out. We didn’t do that.

How, EXACTLY?

You realize contacts are negotiated between two parties, right? Why would Dino have agreed to a contract extension which had a much lower back end buyout than other coaches in similar situations get?

I'll put this in the "didn't have any chance of actually happening in the real world" column...

 

[kcsu]

What, exactly, would "planning for the downside" have looked like?

That feels like a really easy thing to say, a virtually impossible thing to do in a world of limited resources. I'd pretty much guarantee your answer will be something that couldn't have been done, or something that no responsible leadership at the university would have signed up for.

I have dealt with contracts my whole professional life and have had my share of deals/contracts not work out, go bad.
Bad contracts in my world mean that they are not financially successful relationships.
Its the same with Dinos contract. SU asked to be paid a significant amount of money in the event Dino decided to take another job. The flip side is SU also agreed to pay Dino in the event they decided to hire a different coach.
SU it seems didnt think that they would be put in a position by Dinos lack of performance to have to seriously consider terminating his contract and paying the financial penalty to do so.
Simply put they entered into a bad contract given their lack of financial willingness to sever ties with an unsuccessful hire.
So at this point SU is faced with a choice.
Pay the financial penalty to rid itself of the failed hire or continue to employ the person and live with the negative results.
It seems likely that SU has will choose the second option.

Hopefully after Dino is let go. SU will learn from this failed contract and structure its next coaches employment contract accordingly.

 

[Cusefan69]

Structuring the contract on the back end to give yourself an out. We didn’t do that.

So you think Dinos attorney would have been receptive to some back end of contract "out " that would negate value or make it easy for Syracuse to walk for his client? Not sure I am buying that. Before any contract like this gets signed, people at higher levels are signing off on risk that is potentially in the contract. I am skeptical ADs at all programs get outs. There is a litany of schools who have not and the dead money numbers having been posted on this board suggest few to no schools have outs. If you want to blame Wildhack for other stuff fine but let's be legit about the complaints.

 

[Cusefan78]

The bigger issue ADJW & Dino will run into if Dino returns from ‘22 is everyone and their mother will know he’s basically a dead man walking.

May be very tough for White, Schmidt, Monroe to stick around if other options present themselves knowing Dino is on his 9th life.

I have to assume they already have feelers out. Dino has been deadman walking even if wildhack isn’t admitting it. These guys have been hired and fired many times over, the writing is on the wall. You have to let a new coach bring in his guys. If they want to retain them they can but it has to be the decision of the new coach.

 

[kcsu]

I have to assume they already have feelers out. Dino has been deadman walking even if wildhack isn’t admitting it. These guys have been hired and fired many times over, the writing is on the wall. You have to let a new coach bring in his guys. If they want to retain them they can but it has to be the decision of the new coach.

2 are most likely gone.

 

[DPCuse]

Interesting contract conversation. Perhaps the next coach we hire should have a low buyout to entice them to sign on. Do we risk losing them early? Of course. But the flip side is, if we win and the coach leaves early, we are back to respectability making it easier to recruit and find a successor coach. That may have to be our concession to find the up and comers in the coaching world. Said another way, we might have to be that stepping stone school for a while.

 

[orangeinohio]

The bigger issue ADJW & Dino will run into if Dino returns from ‘22 is everyone and their mother will know he’s basically a dead man walking.

May be very tough for White, Schmidt, Monroe to stick around if other options present themselves knowing Dino is on his 9th life.

Assuming Wildhack is sticking with Dino in 2022, it’s Wildhack’s responsibility to fully commit, not to say, ‘Win or else’.
He need to go all in or there’s no point in going another year.

 

[PAcuse]

2 are most likely gone.

Names?
You’ve been saying people are going left and right.
Would like to see who is leaving before it happens.
Also to hold your accountable for the nonstop beating of this dream.
Yes I know called one leaving already but come give us names already.

 

[qdawgg]

Cant believe yesterday happened

I’d like to say I thought that as well but as someone pointed out with the stats prior to the game. It’s been a pretty common thing for this team to be blown out in numerous games in the last 5/6 years.

 

[kcsu]

Interesting contract conversation. Perhaps the next coach we hire should have a low buyout to entice them to sign on. Do we risk losing them early? Of course. But the flip side is, if we win and the coach leaves early, we are back to respectability making it easier to recruit and find a successor coach. That may have to be our concession to find the up and comers in the coaching world. Said another way, we might have to be that stepping stone school for a while.

Or agree to a long payout term

 

[kcsu]

Names?
You’ve been saying people are going left and right.
Would like to see who is leaving before it happens.
Also to hold your accountable for the nonstop beating of this dream.
Yes I know called one leaving already but come give us names already.

I provided another poster names in a PM.

 

[qdawgg]

Where is Moorheads family? Hes moved around quite a bit, PSU 2015-2017, Miss 2017-2020, Oregon 2020-Present. I see he's getting a whisper for the Washington job. Does he have a young family? Do they want to move to Central NY?

I get what you’re saying but the reality is, these coaches are always on the move. The days of getting someone who stays a long time is rare. You might get lucky but also shouldn’t bank on it. The downside of making a good hire is that person is going to be picked off by a bigger school, guaranteed. But it is what is in the 21st century.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Interesting contract conversation. Perhaps the next coach we hire should have a low buyout to entice them to sign on. Do we risk losing them early? Of course. But the flip side is, if we win and the coach leaves early, we are back to respectability making it easier to recruit and find a successor coach. That may have to be our concession to find the up and comers in the coaching world. Said another way, we might have to be that stepping stone school for a while.

Nothing wrong with taking the Cinci approach. They didn't fret about hiring a guy they knew they would lose if he was successful; they understood all along that success is success, and it tends to generate even more success. Being afraid of making a hire that might move on is a silly concept.

Not every coach can be JB.

 

[qdawgg]

There's a concept in macroeconomic theory called "opportunity cost". The issue is that whatever resources get spent on one thing, CANNOT be spent on another.

Its really easy to armchair quarterback, and be baffled why other people won't spend their (limited) resources in the way you would prefer. That the buyout "isn't insurmountable" isn't the issue. Its that there's limited resources, and something won't get done that would also have value to the university as a whole if the money gets spent on a buyout.

As others have said, universities that buy out coaches are often doing that with money boosters pony up specifically to pay to dump a coach. I see a lot of angst from people that Syracuse might not choose to spend their own money to dump Dino - I have yet to see the link to a GoFundMe that would, possibly, actually matter.

(And "not going to games anymore" if Dino gets fired is not likely to lead to the result you want. If I was in charge of spending and knew I had declining revenues from attendance, major uncertainty it could be turned around sustainably, AND lots of other things I wanted/needed to spend money on - the last thing I would do is dedicate more resources to the AD. Alabama was still drawing 92,000 fans to games when Mike Shula was coaching them to sub-500 seasons - that they have revenue certainty is a big part of why they can and do make changes more quickly than Syracuse. While that may seem counter-intuitive - Its also reality. That northeastern fans in general and Syracuse fans specifically are very fickle contributes to the tendency to hang on to losing coaches longer than other schools would.)

I teach micro-economics and opportunity cost could be argued is a micro not macro idea but regardless. The concept plays out well for not keeping him as well. The cost of keeping him has a potential greater negative outcome than the cost of letting him go with the result being devastating long term especially in recruiting and fan support.

 

[tep624]

I’m on board with new HC, OC, and retaining some key components if we can like White, Schmidt and a few other assistants. If we win Saturday, I think Dino gets one more year, if we lose, time to move on.

I think you have to negotiate a buyout if we fall Saturday. It sends a pretty bad message to walk into another season with a HC who has had a losing record in 5 of 6 seasons and the last 3.

 

[Cusefan78]

There's a concept in macroeconomic theory called "opportunity cost". The issue is that whatever resources get spent on one thing, CANNOT be spent on another.

Its really easy to armchair quarterback, and be baffled why other people won't spend their (limited) resources in the way you would prefer. That the buyout "isn't insurmountable" isn't the issue. Its that there's limited resources, and something won't get done that would also have value to the university as a whole if the money gets spent on a buyout.

As others have said, universities that buy out coaches are often doing that with money boosters pony up specifically to pay to dump a coach. I see a lot of angst from people that Syracuse might not choose to spend their own money to dump Dino - I have yet to see the link to a GoFundMe that would, possibly, actually matter.

(And "not going to games anymore" if Dino gets fired is not likely to lead to the result you want. If I was in charge of spending and knew I had declining revenues from attendance, major uncertainty it could be turned around sustainably, AND lots of other things I wanted/needed to spend money on - the last thing I would do is dedicate more resources to the AD. Alabama was still drawing 92,000 fans to games when Mike Shula was coaching them to sub-500 seasons - that they have revenue certainty is a big part of why they can and do make changes more quickly than Syracuse. While that may seem counter-intuitive - Its also reality. That northeastern fans in general and Syracuse fans specifically are very fickle contributes to the tendency to hang on to losing coaches longer than other schools would.)

Thanks I also took that class. The cause of the lack of attendance is the record Dino has had for 5/6 seasons. If the attendance is such a big part of their revenue one would have to think they should do something to remedy the reason for lack of fans. Put a product on the field that fans want and can be proud of and they will come back and support the team.

 

[Cusefan95]

Simply put they entered into a bad contract given their lack of financial willingness to sever ties with an unsuccessful hire.

Simply put, they didn’t have a viable alternative.

Which, since you’ve spent your career working on contracts, I can reasonably presume you know but are choosing to ignore.

 

[orangenauburn]

Names?
You’ve been saying people are going left and right.
Would like to see who is leaving before it happens.
Also to hold your accountable for the nonstop beating of this dream.
Yes I know called one leaving already but come give us names already.

Monroe and Achuff

Just my opinion

 

[TexanMark]

Right. Because everyone is comparing Dino to saban.

And yes it was sophomoric...

 

[PAcuse]

Monroe and Achuff

Just my opinion

Achuff seems right
Monroe has been with Dino for a long but he might see the writing on the wall

 

[Cusefan95]

Thanks I also took that class. The cause of the lack of attendance is the record Dino has had for 5/6 seasons. If the attendance is such a big part of their revenue one would have to think they should do something to remedy the reason for lack of fans. Put a product on the field that fans want and can be proud of and they will come back and support the team.

Syracuse was drawing 35-37K in 1991, in a 10-2 season, to games against Vanderbilt and ECU. I’d argue the fans were never actually there in the first place, so paying big money in the hopes they “come back” would be pretty foolish.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Monroe and Achuff

Just my opinion

Are those really losses? Assistant coaches leave all the time. BTW our Ss have been really bad this year.

 

[Cusefan95]

I teach micro-economics and opportunity cost could be argued is a micro not macro idea but regardless. The concept plays out well for not keeping him as well. The cost of keeping him has a potential greater negative outcome than the cost of letting him go with the result being devastating long term especially in recruiting and fan support.

Only negative impact is potential on attendance - Compared to TV revenues that’s very small. Honestly we’re probably close to the attendance floor right now, so cost of keeping Dino is likely pretty low.