Will we have a 3rd go to spot up shooter next year or only the 5th year guys?

[orangefan13]

Roberson, Joseph, Richardson, Lydon, Howard. :noidea:
Have at it.

 

[iommi]

Cooney actually has to be consistent to be included in that group. He hasn't been a GREAT shooter in his first four years, so I'm not holding my breath he will be consistent in year five.

 

[Trueblue25]

Cooney actually has to be consistent to be included in that group. He hasn't been a GREAT shooter in his first four years, so I'm not holding my breath he will be consistent in year five.

Agreed.

Look to Lydon or Richardson maybe.

 

[jekelish]

Out of that group, you can pretty much cross Roberson and Howard off the list, and while I expect Joseph to be more serviceable than he was this year as a shooter, I wouldn't count on him as more than, maybe, a 30% guy.

If you want a shooter other than Gbinije or Cooney, it's absolutely, 100% without question going to be either Lydon or Richardson.

 

[Brooky03]

Cooney was a 38% 3-point shooter when he got a lot of minutes on a team with a good PG and other offensive threats. I think we'll see production somewhere around that mark for him again.

Gbinije finally became a shooter midway through last season. I think/hope he'll continue as a 36-39% shooter.

Malachi will be the 3rd shooter on the team. All reports I've heard label him as a knockdown shooter, albeit with a somewhat quirky release. If he can at least hit 33% of his deep balls off the bench, we're in good shape. This said, it's doubtful we'll ever see more than two of these shooters on the court at any given time.

Lydon would be gravy. I don't know how many minutes he'll get, but I expect him to be very efficient for a Freshman. His size alone should mean that he'll have no trouble getting his shot off.

 

[OlsenRyan13]

Cooney was a 38% 3-point shooter when he got a lot of minutes on a team with a good PG and other offensive threats. I think we'll see production somewhere around that mark for him again.

Gbinije finally became a shooter midway through last season. I think/hope he'll continue as a 36-39% shooter.

Malachi will be the 3rd shooter on the team. All reports I've heard label him as a knockdown shooter, albeit with a somewhat quirky release. If he can at least hit 33% of his deep balls off the bench, we're in good shape. This said, it's doubtful we'll ever see more than two of these shooters on the court at any given time.

Lydon would be gravy. I don't know how many minutes he'll get, but I expect him to be very efficient for a Freshman. His size alone should mean that he'll have no trouble getting his shot off.

I would think the three of them would be the second most common lineup we'll see after the starting five. First sub of most games is likely going to be Malachi for Joseph.

 

[jordoo]

The big thing is that the 3rd guy only need to be good enough to hurt the other team. In other words they must force teams to guard them or pay the price. So I'm thinking 32% or better.

I don't see Roberson doing that unless something drastic changes with his jumper. I think Lydon and Malachi are very capable of that but how often will one of them be on the floor with Mike and Trevor?

IMO Joseph being able to knock down 32% or higher could help our offense the most. It's likely he will be on the floor a lot and if he can be that 3rd shooter in the starting lineup it would really help space the floor. Then Malachi would come in for either backcourt spot and you still have 3 shooters. Mike is playing most of the game but it may become essential to have TylerL out there when he sits.

 

[HOFCeluck]

We're seldom going to have three shooters together. I think the bigger issue is just getting KJ tobe more aggressive, freeing things up a little for the two shooters we will have, and not having Cooney burning himself out with all that running around he does.

 

[Brooky03]

I would think the three of them would be the second most common lineup we'll see after the starting five. First sub of most games is likely going to be Malachi for Joseph.

Malachi for Joseph would likely mean Joseph isn't getting the job done and we have to put G out of position at PG. If this is our second most common lineup, I'll be sad. G was a servicable PG last season when we had no other options. Playing him there this coming season for more than a few minutes a game, is not what I want to see this team doing.

G, Cooney, and Richardson on the court at the same time is a possibility, but I don't expect to see it a whole lot in conference play.

 

[OlsenRyan13]

Malachi for Joseph would likely mean Joseph isn't getting the job done and we have to put G out of position at PG. If this is our second most common lineup, I'll be sad. G was a servicable PG last season when we had no other options. Playing him there this coming season for more than a few minutes a game, is not what I want to see this team doing.

G, Cooney, and Richardson on the court at the same time is a possibility that I like, but I don't expect to see it a whole lot in conference play.

Kind of a bummer to hear that, I was hoping we'd see the 3 of them together even if Joseph steps up his game. I think Cooney would benefit a ton from having another true spot up shooter on the floor to take the attention on the perimeter off him, and while G is a good shooter his game is much more than just that.

 

[Brooky03]

Kind of a bummer to hear that, I was hoping we'd see the 3 of them together even if Joseph steps up his game. I think Cooney would benefit a ton from having another true spot up shooter on the floor to take the attention on the perimeter off him, and while G is a good shooter his game is much more than just that.

Lydon at PF might be the answer, depending on if we see Diagne more at the 5 or the 4. If Diagne establishes himself as the backup Center, or DCII gets hurt, Lydon is the natural fit behind Roberson. Cooney, G, and Lydon on the court (or even Richardson in place of Cooney or G) is, I think, our best bet at getting 3 shooters on the court on a consistent basis.

 

[FrancoPizza]

It's sad that it's still a puzzle to get 3 shooters on the court. In this day and age, you need at least 3 out there to provide adequate spacing and to open up driving lanes. The best teams can swap shooters in and out. Many mid-majors have more shooting threats than we do, year in and year out. This is all on Jimmy.

 

[Brooky03]

It's sad that it's still a puzzle to get 3 shooters on the court. In this day and age, you need at least 3 out there to provide adequate spacing and to open up driving lanes. The best teams can swap shooters in and out. Many mid-majors have more shooting threats than we do, year in and year out. This is all on Jimmy.

Many mid-majors have more shooting threats on the court than most high-majors because they lack size. When you don't have size you have to shoot. Jim recruits size. It's difficult to have both, and all but a very select few high-majors do.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Many mid-majors have more shooting threats on the court than most high-majors because they lack size. When you don't have size you have to shoot. Jim recruits size. It's difficult to have both, and all but a very select few high-majors do.

Did you watch the NCAA tournament at all last year? Seems like every other team had more shooters than we did. Size doesn't mean that much if you can't put the ball in the basket.

 

[Brooky03]

Did you watch the NCAA tournament at all last year? Seems like every other team had more shooters than we did. Size doesn't mean that much if you can't put the ball in the basket.

You're using one of our worst teams in Boeheim's history as an example. This is not representative of a typical Syracuse team, certainly not in the last 5-10 years.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It's sad that it's still a puzzle to get 3 shooters on the court. In this day and age, you need at least 3 out there to provide adequate spacing and to open up driving lanes. The best teams can swap shooters in and out. Many mid-majors have more shooting threats than we do, year in and year out. This is all on Jimmy.

lol

 

[Knicks411]

You're using one of our worst teams in Boeheim's history as an example. This is not representative of a typical Syracuse team, certainly not in the last 5-10 years.

That's true, but Ken Pom has the data for the last 14 years; we've ranked in the top 100 (not a huge bar to clear) in 3 point% once in 14 years.

 

[Brooky03]

That's true, but Ken Pom has the data for the last 14 years; we've ranked in the top 100 (not a huge bar to clear) in 3 point% once in 14 years.

And we've had a National Championship, Final Four, and Elite 8 in that timeframe. Ignoring the two seasons cut short by the Onuaku injury and Fab suspension, and what they could've been, I'd say the plan is working. Size + good defense + 3 capable shooters = success

 

[HOFCeluck]

And we've had a National Championship, Final Four, and Elite 8 in that timeframe. Ignoring the two seasons cut short by the Onuaku injury and Fab suspension, and what they could've been, I'd say the plan is working. Size + good defense + 3 capable shooters = success

Not sure you can really count 2012 for anything. Fab should never have played.

 

[Knicks411]

And we've had a National Championship, Final Four, and Elite 8 in that timeframe. Ignoring the two seasons cut short by the Onuaku injury and Fab suspension, and what they could've been, I'd say the plan is working. Size + good defense + 3 capable shooters = success

That's fine, to an extent, but originally you said this team isn't representative of the last decade or so. From a 3 point shooting standpoint, it was on the low side, but not crazy. We haven't been a good outside shooting team no matter what year you look at.

 

[Knicks411]

Not sure you can really count 2012 for anything. Fab should never have played.

And 2010 was a really good 3 point team, the only one we've had.

 

[jordoo]

That's true, but Ken Pom has the data for the last 14 years; we've ranked in the top 100 (not a huge bar to clear) in 3 point% once in 14 years.

And we managed a NC, 2FF, 3E8 and how many S16's? Certainly offense has been an issue especially last season, the second half of the prior season and even the last FF season for stretches but its not like we haven't been successful over that stretch. Its also pretty rare that you will have a team that has great size, inside play and a plethora of shooters. Duke had one legit big guy and a backup which was just enough to go with all their shooters. Wiski also had size and shooting. Both made the FF and were elite teams all season. UK likely fell short because they didn't have enough shooting to go with their size. I think we would all want more shooters and it seems the staff agrees and has made the adjustment in recruiting but we shall have to see.

 

[Brooky03]

Not sure you can really count 2012 for anything. Fab should never have played.

I'll count what I want to count, dammit

 

[jekelish]

I'll count what I want to count, dammit

I figure that's basically how analytics works in general.

 

[Brooky03]

That's fine, to an extent, but originally you said this team isn't representative of the last decade or so. From a 3 point shooting standpoint, it was on the low side, but not crazy. We haven't been a good outside shooting team no matter what year you look at.

We've had at least 3 capable 3-point shooters on every team dating back to 2005. Last year, we had two, one of which didn't realize he could make 3's until halfway through the season. From a recruiting standpoint, Boeheim has recruited the shooters he's needed, which was the crux of the argument. He can't always control how well they perform in a season (like Fair's dropoff senior year or Triche's drop to 28% one season), but he's put the pieces in place.

Like I said, you normally get to pick 2 of the 3 between size, athtleticism, or shooting. Substitue size or athleticism with shooting on some of our teams and you can kiss the high defensive rankings goodbye. It's all about balance. There are only a handful of recruits with all 3 attributes, and we can't 'point-and-click' them like Kentucky or Duke.