Woody Newton transferring to Oklahoma St

[OrangeXtreme]

'It's a trust factor': Why Woody Newton chose Oklahoma State after rough year at Syracuse

New OSU wing Woody Newton rarely played in the second half last season at Syracuse, so he transferred. He chose the Cowboys based on trust.

www.oklahoman.com

 

[AZOrange]

Lets not trash Ok St's head coach...If JW truly goes outside for a candidate, Mike B will get a call. His NYC connection is a major +

Yeah as I have said in previous posts Boynton is going to be a short lister.

 

[jdubs30]

'It's a trust factor': Why Woody Newton chose Oklahoma State after rough year at Syracuse

New OSU wing Woody Newton rarely played in the second half last season at Syracuse, so he transferred. He chose the Cowboys based on trust.

www.oklahoman.com

It’s crazy how bad JG3, Buddy and Woody all were really effected by Covid

 

[Orangezoo]

'It's a trust factor': Why Woody Newton chose Oklahoma State after rough year at Syracuse

New OSU wing Woody Newton rarely played in the second half last season at Syracuse, so he transferred. He chose the Cowboys based on trust.

www.oklahoman.com

Interesting read. He talks a lot about not knowing and trust but also his point about needing to get away to focus and grow up is telling to me. He needed a change plain and simple for I am sure numerous reasons built into his comments. Gotta respect that and it's probably the primary reason for many kids.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

It’s crazy how bad JG3, Buddy and Woody all were really effected by Covid

Covid + Braswell's improvement = limited playing time.

 

[RF2044]

Covid + Braswell's improvement = limited playing time.

It's interesting that even when Braswell didn't shoot well [and in fact shot ATTROCIOUSLY] over the first stretch of games earlier in the season, JB never seemed to lose confidence in him. So even though RB's playing time fluctuated a bit early in the season -- JB stuck with him, and he eventually produced.

Just highlights that if JB has confidence in you, PT ensues. And if he doesn't...

All that said, I perfectly understand Woody's frustration. His situation was the opposite of what I describe above -- he started out incredibly hot, shot well, produced from the jump, then got benched. It wasn't tied to his production, him hurting the team or playing outside of the team's offensive concept. Really, it is hard to understand why he lost time.

And yes -- I've heard the rumor about the big argument with JB. JB has had many such arguments over the years, they usually boil over and he doesn't hold it against players after that.

I fear that in a year or two, Woody will go in the ledger as a huge missed opportunity for our program. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in the NBA down the road.

 

[DilemaCuse]

It reads to me there is a lack of communication between JB and the players. I kind of expect that, but where are the assistants to bridge the communication gap and keep him engaged?

Its 12 kids! Not 85 like in football.

 

[Orangezoo]

It reads to me there is a lack of communication between JB and the players. I kind of expect that, but where are the assistants to bridge the communication gap and keep him engaged?

Its 12 kids! Not 85 like in football.

It generates some questions. That said have you ever been set in leaving a job and talked into staying? Plug the adult mentality into it and then think about it. We like to point fingers but you add a pandemic and unprecedented new world with the transfer rule and it's a year unlike any other.

Yes you can make a situation better for a player and give the player what they want and possibly what they deserve (always debatable) but at the end of the day if one foot was out the door it takes a lot to bring that back in and then be able to close that door.

 

[MSOrange]

It's interesting that even when Braswell didn't shoot well [and in fact shot ATTROCIOUSLY] over the first stretch of games earlier in the season, JB never seemed to lose confidence in him. So even though RB's playing time fluctuated a bit early in the season -- JB stuck with him, and he eventually produced.

Just highlights that if JB has confidence in you, PT ensues. And if he doesn't...

All that said, I perfectly understand Woody's frustration. His situation was the opposite of what I describe above -- he started out incredibly hot, shot well, produced from the jump, then got benched. It wasn't tied to his production, him hurting the team or playing outside of the team's offensive concept. Really, it is hard to understand why he lost time.

And yes -- I've heard the rumor about the big argument with JB. JB has had many such arguments over the years, they usually boil over and he doesn't hold it against players after that.

I fear that in a year or two, Woody will go in the ledger as a huge missed opportunity for our program. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in the NBA down the road.

I think JB also liked Braswell's defense but to be honest, I thought Woody was pretty strong on that end also for a freshman.

 

[RF2044]

I think JB also like Braswell's defense but to be honest, I thought Woody was pretty strong on that end also for a freshman.

Agreed. And let's be honest -- with the few breadcrumbs of PT Braswell got in his career prior to this year, he always showed that he had a good feel for the zone, always seemed to be in position defensively, rebounded better than expected for someone with such a slight build, etc.

I think that's a big reason JB trusted him -- and didn't sweat the shooting, because he saw in practice that Braswell could hit and he expected the shooting to eventually come around. And in the meantime, Braswell did other things [especially defensively] that JB was cool rolling with.

My issue with the way Woody was handled is that the kid was a PERFECT 4 in our system. Someone who could and should have been a multi-year starter. And that potential was squandered, despite how well he played at the beginning of the year.

 

[dasher]

It's interesting that even when Braswell didn't shoot well [and in fact shot ATTROCIOUSLY] over the first stretch of games earlier in the season, JB never seemed to lose confidence in him. So even though RB's playing time fluctuated a bit early in the season -- JB stuck with him, and he eventually produced.

Just highlights that if JB has confidence in you, PT ensues. And if he doesn't...

All that said, I perfectly understand Woody's frustration. His situation was the opposite of what I describe above -- he started out incredibly hot, shot well, produced from the jump, then got benched. It wasn't tied to his production, him hurting the team or playing outside of the team's offensive concept. Really, it is hard to understand why he lost time.

And yes -- I've heard the rumor about the big argument with JB. JB has had many such arguments over the years, they usually boil over and he doesn't hold it against players after that.

I fear that in a year or two, Woody will go in the ledger as a huge missed opportunity for our program. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in the NBA down the road.

What we aren't talking about is what the argument was about. I don't think JB holds it against anyone who argues because they want more playing time. Effort in practice, now that is another story.

 

[orangecuse]

Jim Boeheim: 1 Syracuse backup stands out ahead of Rutgers game

Syracuse basketball's depth hasn't been tested in its first two contests without Buddy Boeheim and Bourama Sidibe. The Orange rolled to a 75-45 win against Niagara on

247sports.com

When asked about his confidence level in the group after the Rider game, Jim Boeheim pointed to freshman forward Woody Newton as the standout. "I think Woody's really stepped up," Boeheim said. "I like what he's done. I really do." "Woody's pretty good in the zone," Boeheim said. "I'm really happy with what he's done so far."

'It's a trust factor': Why Woody Newton chose Oklahoma State after rough year at Syracuse

New OSU wing Woody Newton rarely played in the second half last season at Syracuse, so he transferred. He chose the Cowboys based on trust.

www.oklahoman.com

He knew it would take time to return to his usual self on the court. He didn’t expect to play on Dec. 30 at Wake Forest after just two practices But a week later, he didn’t play against Pittsburgh.

That was the start of a downward trend. Newton appeared in only five games after the pause.

“It really hurt,” Newton said. “It messed with me because I know that I can be out there contributing, helping my team win. Games I see us losing by five points, we’re down by 20 — maybe I can change that. Who knows.”

Newton said Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim never gave an exact reasoning why Newton didn’t play much in the second half of the season. By the time the season ended, Newton knew he wanted to play elsewhere.

“I feel as if I lost trust there,” Newton said. “If I don’t have trust, we have nothing. If I can’t trust you, it was easy, to be honest. I already knew what I wanted to do.”

It's quite apparent in how the season played out, etc., Woody wanted nothing to do with JB's style, and the way in which he operates.

 

[RF2044]

What we aren't talking about is what the argument was about. I don't think JB holds it against anyone who argues because they want more playing time. Effort in practice, now that is another story.

That's fair -- but from what I understand, the effort waned a bit after his PT got ghosted, for no reason. He wasn't benched because of practice effort. He was playing really well, was quickly the first frontcourt guy off of the bench, caught COVID, was impaired for a couple of weeks, and then saw his PT drop off of a cliff once he recovered physically.

Not defending Woody or taking his side in how the argument unfolded, but pointing to practice effort as the reason he wasn't playing is disingenuous. JB benched him even when the team was struggling, and the problems escalated from there.

And I fully acknowledge that this was a very strange school year, especially for incoming frosh, who didn't have normal social outlets that might help to otherwise diffuse / offset such situations.

 

[UpstateSM]

That's fair -- but from what I understand, the effort waned a bit after his PT got ghosted, for no reason. He wasn't benched because of practice effort. He was playing really well, was quickly the first frontcourt guy off of the bench, caught COVID, was impaired for a couple of weeks, and then saw his PT drop off of a cliff once he recovered physically.

Not defending Woody or taking his side in how the argument unfolded, but pointing to practice effort as the reason he wasn't playing is disingenuous. JB benched him even when the team was struggling, and the problems arose from there.

I could be wrong but wasn't Woody's (and Kadary's) effort talked about before we started playing games this season? I'm pretty sure Quincy mentioned it in a pre-season interview but of course I can't find it now.

Not saying that to pick a side because I really don't care enough to litigate it anymore but I thought it was an "issue" from the jump. Of course things could have amplified that and made it worse over the course of the season (especially in a covid year) but I always got the vibe that they weren't exactly gymrats and that usually isn't going to earn you the benefit of the doubt from most good college coaches.

So I probably agree with your point about the reason being disingenuous on a macro level but at the end of the day you have to try in practice and if you decide not to you can't argue with the coach when he rides you about it.

I'm sure Woody will mature over the next couple of years and be a solid guy at OSU. I'll be rooting for him.

 

[RF2044]

I could be wrong but wasn't Woody's (and Kadary's) effort talked about before we started playing games this season? I'm pretty sure Quincy mentioned it in a pre-season interview but of course I can't find it now.

Not saying that to pick a side because I really don't care enough to litigate it anymore but I thought it was an "issue" from the jump. Of course things could have amplified that and made it worse over the course of the season (especially in a covid year) but I always got the vibe that they weren't exactly gymrats and that usually isn't going to earn you the benefit of the doubt from most good college coaches.

So I probably agree with your point about the reason being disingenuous on a macro level but at the end of the day you have to try in practice and if you decide not to you can't argue with the coach when he rides you about it.

I'm sure Woody will mature over the next couple of years and be a solid guy at OSU. I'll be rooting for him.

I'm going to push back a little. This is how board "fact" get established -- someone interprets vague information and then postulates that Kadary and Woody "weren't exactly gymrats," and then it begins to get established as truth.

That may be true. Or it might be overblown. Incoming frosh generally have an adjustment period -- because the requirements of playing high major basketball are much different than what they've experienced before, and requires a lot more effort. My belief is that it is incumbent upon the upperclassmen to show leadership, and show younger players the level of effort required [film study, extra work, etc.] to succeed at this level. If younger players aren't putting in the work [hypothetically], then team leaders can and should put pressure on them to correct those habits.

What I've heard [again, second hand -- so take it with a grain of salt] is that after Woody returned from COVID and had recovered, but then was out of the lineup, that he responded by having several practices in a row where he was going through the motions to show his unhappiness. JB yelled at him in practice, and like an immature 18 year frosh he stormed off the court and went into the locker room. JB followed him in, they had a huge off-court blowout argument, and the assistant coaches intervened to end the shouting match. After that, JB pocket vetoed Woody seeing the court, despite him having the skill to contribute, which pretty much set the transfer wheels in motion.

Now, in a normal year, Woody might have had a more engaging overall college experience. Maybe he wouldn't have wanted to leave if that had been the case. Or if the NCAA hadn't passed the one time transfer waiver to sit out, maybe he also wouldn't have been inclined to leave and sit out. We'll never know.

I just hate losing a starting caliber guy who might be NBA caliber over a contest of wills. Woody wasn't a bad seed, he was frustrated.

 

[UpstateSM]

I'm going to push back a little. This is how board "fact" get established -- someone interprets vague information and then postulates that Kadary and Woody "weren't exactly gymrats," and then it begins to get established as truth.

That may be true. Or it might be overblown. Incoming frosh generally have an adjustment period -- because the requirements of playing high major basketball are much different than what they've experienced before, and requires a lot more effort. My belief is that it is incumbent upon the upperclassmen to show leadership, and show younger players the level of effort required [film study, extra work, etc.] to succeed at this level. If younger players aren't putting in the work [hypothetically], then team leaders can and should put pressure on them to correct those habits.

What I've heard [again, second hand -- so take it with a grain of salt] is that after Woody returned from COVID and had recovered, but then was out of the lineup, that his effort waned and he had several practices in a row where he was going through the motions passive aggressively. JB yelled at him in practice, and like an immature 18 year frosh he stormed off the court and went into the locker room. JB followed him in, they had a huge blowout argument, and the assistant coaches intervened to end the shouting match. After that, JB pocket vetoed Woody seeing the court, despite him having the skill to contribute, which pretty much set the transfer wheels in motion.

Now, in a normal year, Woody might have had a more engaging overall college experience. Maybe he wouldn't have wanted to leave if that had been the case. Or if the NCAA hadn't passed the one time transfer waiver to sit out, maybe he also wouldn't have been inclined to leave and sit out. We'll never know.

I just hate losing a starting caliber guy who might be NBA caliber over a contest of wills. Woody wasn't a bad seed, he was frustrated.

I hope it didn't come across as if I was implying that I thought Woody was a bad seed because I don't. Things just don't workout in life sometimes, it happens. I'm also not the first on here to interpret what we've been told or have heard in the way that I did but if you or others think its going to evolve into a "false narrative" in large part due to my post I'll delete it.

I agree with your second paragraph 100% and if I had the time or energy I would spend the time to find Q's exact quote but I'm happy when veteran players ride younger guys, its almost always a good thing for the team as a whole.

I appreciate your info and it does suck that he's leaving. I can confidently say you won't find a bigger Woody fan on this board than me (I think I made that clear everyday for a couple of weeks) so I was pretty disappointed when he left.

 

[RF2044]

I hope it didn't come across as if I was implying that I thought Woody was a bad seed because I don't. Things just don't workout in life sometimes, it happens. I'm also not the first on here to interpret what we've been told or have heard in the way that I did but if you or others think its going to evolve into a "false narrative" in large part due to my post I'll delete it.

I agree with your second paragraph 100% and if I had the time or energy I would spend the time to find Q's exact quote but I'm happy when veteran players ride younger guys, its almost always a good thing for the team as a whole.

I appreciate your info and it does suck that he's leaving. I can confidently say you won't find a bigger Woody fan on this board than me (I think I made that clear everyday for a couple of weeks) so I was pretty disappointed when he left.

Nope -- not implying that you're creating a narrative at all. Just that the board has a tendency to take tidbits like that and then to begin generally accepting some of those things as "fact."

Example -- a couple of years ago, a good poster was on campus in the summer and reported on a pickup game between players. One of their observations was that Frank was pushing Gillon around, and got the better of him. Quickly that morphed into board "fact" as Frank dominating Gillon -- when in actuality, Frank was being excessively physical / getting away with stuff that would get called in games. That led to many posters to point to that information as justification for their belief that Frank was a better player than Gillon, when the opposite was true [and quickly proven when the season began].

 

[UpstateSM]

Nope -- not implying that you're creating a narrative at all. Just that the board has a tendency to take tidbits like that and then to begin generally accepting some of those things as "fact."

Example -- a couple of years ago, a good poster was on campus in the summer and reported on a pickup game between players. One of their observations was that Frank was pushing Gillon around, and got the better of him. Quickly that morphed into board "fact" as Frank dominating Gillon -- when in actuality, Frank was being excessively physical / getting away with stuff that would get called in games. That led to many posters to point to that information as justification for their belief that Frank was a better player than Gillon, when the opposite was true [and quickly proven when the season began].

 

[Chip]

Nope -- not implying that you're creating a narrative at all. Just that the board has a tendency to take tidbits like that and then to begin generally accepting some of those things as "fact."

There was one postgame presser where JB was asked specifically about Woody. He said (twice), we're going to play the guys who play hard in practice.

There was some speculation at that point whether Woody wasn't yet practicing because of Covid, or if he was back and JB just wasn't happy with his effort. I remember it specifically, and remember thinking the latter. I know that doesn't make it true, as near to perfect as I may be.

 

[RF2044]

There was one postgame presser where JB was asked specifically about Woody. He said (twice), we're going to play the guys who play hard in practice.

There was some speculation at that point whether Woody wasn't yet practicing because of Covid, or if he was back and JB just wasn't happy with his effort. I remember it specifically, and remember thinking the latter. I know that doesn't make it true, as near to perfect as I may be.

...to which I'd reply that JB says things. And that the things he says in press conferences / radio appearances are often used to rationalize decisions he makes.

To which I'd in turn reply [to myself] that he's a HOF coach, with 1000+ victories, so who am I to critique?

 

[miamicuse]

well, woody is just being immature, which is the way most kids his age behave.

I hope he finds a good home in OSU.

In some way, I think this reflects a certain disconnect between JB and the players. As we know in years past, it's not uncommon for players to be at odds with JB, I believe Rony, Dion, Scoop, MCW and many others were frustrated and blew up, but they were able to come around because they had a closer relationship with JB. As JB ages and with the assistants doing most of the recruiting and running practices, the players are no longer close to JB. This makes a difference, when they get yelled at or criticized at a presser, not by the coach but more like the overlord.

 

[Bball44]

well, woody is just being immature, which is the way most kids his age behave.

I hope he finds a good home in OSU.

In some way, I think this reflects a certain disconnect between JB and the players. As we know in years past, it's not uncommon for players to be at odds with JB, I believe Rony, Dion, Scoop, MCW and many others were frustrated and blew up, but they were able to come around because they had a closer relationship with JB. As JB ages and with the assistants doing most of the recruiting and running practices, the players are no longer close to JB. This makes a difference, when they get yelled at or criticized at a presser, not by the coach but more like the overlord.

Should not be an issue this season since all the guys, with the exception of Benny, already have 2-3 years college experience.

 

[sutomcat]

'It's a trust factor': Why Woody Newton chose Oklahoma State after rough year at Syracuse

New OSU wing Woody Newton rarely played in the second half last season at Syracuse, so he transferred. He chose the Cowboys based on trust.

www.oklahoman.com

Good luck to Woody in Stillwater.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I'm going to push back a little. This is how board "fact" get established -- someone interprets vague information and then postulates that Kadary and Woody "weren't exactly gymrats," and then it begins to get established as truth.

That may be true. Or it might be overblown. Incoming frosh generally have an adjustment period -- because the requirements of playing high major basketball are much different than what they've experienced before, and requires a lot more effort. My belief is that it is incumbent upon the upperclassmen to show leadership, and show younger players the level of effort required [film study, extra work, etc.] to succeed at this level. If younger players aren't putting in the work [hypothetically], then team leaders can and should put pressure on them to correct those habits.

What I've heard [again, second hand -- so take it with a grain of salt] is that after Woody returned from COVID and had recovered, but then was out of the lineup, that he responded by having several practices in a row where he was going through the motions to show his unhappiness. JB yelled at him in practice, and like an immature 18 year frosh he stormed off the court and went into the locker room. JB followed him in, they had a huge off-court blowout argument, and the assistant coaches intervened to end the shouting match. After that, JB pocket vetoed Woody seeing the court, despite him having the skill to contribute, which pretty much set the transfer wheels in motion.

Now, in a normal year, Woody might have had a more engaging overall college experience. Maybe he wouldn't have wanted to leave if that had been the case. Or if the NCAA hadn't passed the one time transfer waiver to sit out, maybe he also wouldn't have been inclined to leave and sit out. We'll never know.

I just hate losing a starting caliber guy who might be NBA caliber over a contest of wills. Woody wasn't a bad seed, he was frustrated.

Indeed if this was how it went down, then it sounds like more of a communication issue- a self-fulfilling prophesy if you will.
“Coach, I’m back from Covid and ready to contribute”.
“You have to show me in practice”.
“I’m trying hard Coach, why am I not playing”?
“You need to give me more”.
“What’s the point? I’m trying but you’re not giving me any run...effe it”!
“You won’t play, if you don’t practice hard”.
“Whatever”. -End scene-

I still say that it’s up to the adults in the room to steer the narrative, & if JB lost the kid...the 18-yr old kid, after the shouting match, then that’s a shame.
This new generation knows that they have alternatives. i don’t blame JB for doing it his way, but the “my way or the highway” approach doesn’t work w/ everyone.
Bottom line, we lost a talent...more than one, IMO. And that’s unfortunate.

 

[dollarbill44]

well, woody is just being immature, which is the way most kids his age behave.

I hope he finds a good home in OSU.

In some way, I think this reflects a certain disconnect between JB and the players. As we know in years past, it's not uncommon for players to be at odds with JB, I believe Rony, Dion, Scoop, MCW and many others were frustrated and blew up, but they were able to come around because they had a closer relationship with JB. As JB ages and with the assistants doing most of the recruiting and running practices, the players are no longer close to JB. This makes a difference, when they get yelled at or criticized at a presser, not by the coach but more like the overlord.

It may or may not be a disconnect. It's quite possible that the blowups JB had with those other players were different than what transpired with Woody. The reaction to the arguments may also have a lot to do with how the relationships were repaired. Successful coaches develop methods to get players' attention and to perform the way they want. Some players don't respond to these methods or it takes them longer (a couple of years) to get the point and see the lesson.
You may be right in that JB has lost something as he has aged that has affected his ability to reach his players. It could also be that a lot of players- particularly the more talented ones- don't feel like they need to be coached as much as they need to be "managed" and now they have the freedom to leave without penalty to play for a coach they think will be better for them.
Getting back to Rony, Dion, Scoop and MCW, maybe they responded the way coach wanted them to and Woody went the other direction, and maybe that is the difference.