Woody Newton transferring to Oklahoma St

[DoctorBombay]

It may or may not be a disconnect. It's quite possible that the blowups JB had with those other players were different than what transpired with Woody. The reaction to the arguments may also have a lot to do with how the relationships were repaired. Successful coaches develop methods to get players' attention and to perform the way they want. Some players don't respond to these methods or it takes them longer (a couple of years) to get the point and see the lesson.
You may be right in that JB has lost something as he has aged that has affected his ability to reach his players. It could also be that a lot of players- particularly the more talented ones- don't feel like they need to be coached as much as they need to be "managed" and now they have the freedom to leave without penalty to play for a coach they think will be better for them.
Getting back to Rony, Dion, Scoop and MCW, maybe they responded the way coach wanted them to and Woody went the other direction, and maybe that is the difference.

It’s a known fact that Rony absolutely hated JB at SU, and it even lingered for a few years after college. In time he saw the lessons that were imparted and they patched things up- but that was a different time.
I’ll say it again...kids have alternatives, and entourages, and branding, and social media. This year was a perfect storm w/ Covid and the transfer waivers, but it’s only the beginning. This is likely the new normal.

 

[dollarbill44]

the “my way or the highway” approach doesn’t work w/ everyone.

I think he's probably more forgiving in private than what comes across in his pressers or on the sideline during games.
There are likely nuances to these storylines that we, as fans, will never learn that shaped how events ultimately unfold, so we fill in the blanks based on our own experiences in a way that is similar to squinting at an incomplete picture to make it blurry so we can pretend it's finished.

 

[dollarbill44]

It’s a known fact that Rony absolutely hated JB at SU, and it even lingered for a few years after college. In time he saw the lessons that were imparted and they patched things up- but that was a different time.
I’ll say it again...kids have alternatives, and entourages, and branding, and social media. This year was a perfect storm w/ Covid and the transfer waivers, but it’s only the beginning. This is likely the new normal.

I agree. But, Rony knew he had to do what JB said, even if he didn't like it. I think the majority of kids are still this way, but a number of them aren't.
I also think Rony liked SU. He seemed like a pretty happy guy the few times I saw him on campus.

 

[OrangeDW]

It’s a known fact that Rony absolutely hated JB at SU, and it even lingered for a few years after college. In time he saw the lessons that were imparted and they patched things up- but that was a different time.
I’ll say it again...kids have alternatives, and entourages, and branding, and social media. This year was a perfect storm w/ Covid and the transfer waivers, but it’s only the beginning. This is likely the new normal.

Yes, I want to say around mid 90s Rony said something negative about Boeheim, and Boeheim replied saying something like “Rony’s always been an idiot and he’s continuing to be an idiot”.

But yeah, pretty sure I remember Rony being at the 2003 NC game.

 

[Chip]

...to which I'd reply that JB says things. And that the things he says in press conferences / radio appearances are often used to rationalize decisions he makes.

This is true though. I think most of us agree that he tends to lash out more when he thinks the fans/reporters are questioning him about specific topics. More now than ever.

 

[Trueblue25]

I don’t think Woody, Kadary and JB will be exchanging Christmas cards. I think Woody deserved more run last season but I’m getting the feeling that our departures were less team and more me.

 

[NorSyr66]

Just happened to check back on this thread after seeing the activity over the past few days to discover some thought provoking posts reflecting on the Woody situation. I agree with others that we may have lost a special talented player but as some point out, not everyone fits the mold here at Syracuse. Coach and player personalities are key factors but the major factor at this time is the waiver on transfers due to the COVID impact over the last year. Contributing factors, also attributed to COVID, were the shutdown of in school learning, not playing in front of 30,000 fans and missing the fun of college social life. Obviously this is not just a Syracuse/Boeheim problem when you look at the total number of players in the portal. The prior rule of sitting out one year before playing after a transfer was a major road block to many unhappy players. This large number of potential transfers will continue if the waiver stays in place. Each and every year the starry eyed incoming freshmen expect to move immediately into a starting role or at least get major playing time. Last year's team started with 5 of the top 6 players returning from the prior year and a larger than usual incoming freshmen squad. Not a good fit for a coach that prefers to play a short bench and favors reliable upper classmen over rookies. Bottom line, it is what it is. Kadary, Woody and Braswell are gone, hoping to find better opportunities. Best of luck to them, we would have loved to watch them continue to play for Syracuse but that book has closed. I hope when the portal dust settles Frank is still at Syracuse. Lets Go Orange!

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Interesting to read the way Boynton communicates with Woody already. Maybe that's just the honeymoon/intro period, but i can imagine there's a vast difference between the way JB runs things versus other coaches. JB doesn't seem like the type to be engaged with players any more than is necessary—on the court, during practices. And even then, if it's true that he watches the first hour from the 'balcony'/catwalk or whatever... that wouldn't impress me much if i were the kid/player. As noted above, "my way or the highway"—seems like the JB ethos. 'I'm the HoFer, and you're just a snotnosed kid. I'm not going to pander or kowtow, or text you when you get the sniffles...'

That kind of 'overlord' thing possibly generates respect among some players. And then others would probably thrive with a more personal, involved approach.

Sad, that Woody says he was never given a direct reason for his playing time 'shift.' I know that player/coach relationships are difficult and complex, but Woody needed to have specifically asked those questions, not just relied on JB to spell it out for him on his own. Maybe that's part of the "growing up" thing he was talking about.

I wish him well, and hope he kills it on this and the next level.

 

[djcon57]

Putting 2 and 2 together based on the article and the comments on this board throughout the year.

A) Woody had/or attended a party unmasked with many people
B) Woody got sick
C) JB says, “oh you put yourself in position to get sick? YA BENCHED”
D) Woody points at “others on team” that got COVID and weren’t benched, not understanding they didn’t possibly attend unmasked party and/or his presence got others sick
E) blow it up

that sound unreasonable?

 

[Madbiker]

What's difficult to figure out here? JB plays 1 forward sub, 1 guard sub, and some years if lucky 1 center sub. Sometimes the forward sub doubles as the center sub. If JB had 13 McD AA's only 7 or 8 would ever play. That's the system. Know that going in.

 

[djcon57]

What's difficult to figure out here? JB plays 1 forward sub, 1 guard sub, and some years if lucky 1 center sub. Sometimes the forward sub doubles as the center sub. If JB had 13 McD AA's only 7 or 8 would ever play. That's the system. Know that going in.

he was the forward sub for some games, then not. Something obviously changed. That’s what some in the post are examining

 

[miamicuse]

You may be right in that JB has lost something as he has aged that has affected his ability to reach his players.

I wasn't saying JB can't reach his players as he aged.

I was saying as he aged he is no longer as involved in recruiting and practices as he used to. This means the current players are not as close to him as the former players. JB knocked on Carmelo's door, I bet JB didn't knock on woody's door. So if woody may react differently to being yelled at by someone who recruited him and helped him developed day to day instead of someone who's the overlord HOF.

I remember watching the Devo podcast where he interviewed scoop and scoop said he went to JB before a Nova game and asked if he would play in front of his home town, if he's going to sit he'd rather not go down to Philly and sit. JB said scoop would play. Scoop end up playing two minutes total, and he was upset. He said he was ready to just quit and stay in Philly and not go back to Syracuse. JB came back to talk to Scoop while Scoop was taking a shower and Scoop ignored him but eventually he came around because JB gave him a hug. I doubt today's JB would hug woody or kadary LOL.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I wasn't saying JB can't reach his players as he aged.

I was saying as he aged he is no longer as involved in recruiting and practices as he used to. This means the current players are not as close to him as the former players. JB knocked on Carmelo's door, I bet JB didn't knock on woody's door. So if woody may react differently to being yelled at by someone who recruited him and helped him developed day to day instead of someone who's the overlord HOF.

I remember watching the Devo podcast where he interviewed scoop and scoop said he went to JB before a Nova game and asked if he would play in front of his home town, if he's going to sit he'd rather not go down to Philly and sit. JB said scoop would play. Scoop end up playing two minutes total, and he was upset. He said he was ready to just quit and stay in Philly and not go back to Syracuse. JB came back to talk to Scoop while Scoop was taking a shower and Scoop ignored him but eventually he came around because JB gave him a hug. I doubt today's JB would hug woody or kadary LOL.

Feels like you're timing in the story about the hug could be cleaned up a bit.

You know it's the offseason when you get to 20 pages about a guy who left the team after playing like 30 minutes all season.

And yes, I think it's a tremendous loss that Woody left.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Interesting to read the way Boynton communicates with Woody already. Maybe that's just the honeymoon/intro period, but i can imagine there's a vast difference between the way JB runs things versus other coaches. JB doesn't seem like the type to be engaged with players any more than is necessary—on the court, during practices. And even then, if it's true that he watches the first hour from the 'balcony'/catwalk or whatever... that wouldn't impress me much if i were the kid/player. As noted above, "my way or the highway"—seems like the JB ethos. 'I'm the HoFer, and you're just a snotnosed kid. I'm not going to pander or kowtow, or text you when you get the sniffles...'

That kind of 'overlord' thing possibly generates respect among some players. And then others would probably thrive with a more personal, involved approach.

Sad, that Woody says he was never given a direct reason for his playing time 'shift.' I know that player/coach relationships are difficult and complex, but Woody needed to have specifically asked those questions, not just relied on JB to spell it out for him on his own. Maybe that's part of the "growing up" thing he was talking about.

I wish him well, and hope he kills it on this and the next level.

The reason is obvious. Good riddance.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

Let’s look at the start of the season. Syracuse had Bourama © Marek (SF), Quincy (PF), Buddy (SG) and Joe (PG) as the starters with Allan, Woody and Kadary (not really focusing on him) the first players (not in order) off the bench. Bourama goes down quickly, Marek moves to Center, Allan moves to SF (plays well for a prolong time) and Woody is the first forward off the bench. COVID hits taking Joe, Buddy. Woody and possibly others down for some period of time. Buddy and Joe take turns returning (with some lingering effects) . Braswell plays in Woody’s place over the time and shows a lot of improvement. Woody returns and get less to no playing time (some related to recovery and some practice related). Allan gets a lot of the time at SF and Quincy is a fixture at PF. Braswell picks up the remaining available Forward minutes and does a good job. Woody gets spot minutes and shows some promise but can not get pass Braswell for more playing time.

Later, Allan makes unwarranted plays, gets quick hooks and Braswell comes in and plays the majority minutes at SF with notable success. Woody is basically stuck on the bench.

So, is it that Braswell played well, did the things that Coach was looking for and Woody did not.

Both transfer, implying they see the future and don’t want to be part of it. I can understand Woody leaving (he lost his previous position) but Braswell won the position and Allan leaves to go pro. Implying that the position would be his and maybe have to share the position with incoming player, Benny Williams (then a 5 star, now a 4 star). Question on how much playing time will be available at the forward position (By the way, Quincy is known to try for the pros and Allan decided to get an agent).

To me, it look like Braswell, Newton and Williams would have been the primary candidates to split the PF and SF minutes for 2021-2022. Braswell left (not sure of the reason), Woody left because of the lack of playing time and disagreement/trust issues with the coach.

Sounds to me that both players left opportunities on the table and chose to leave.

 

[OrangeDW]

I wasn't saying JB can't reach his players as he aged.

I was saying as he aged he is no longer as involved in recruiting and practices as he used to. This means the current players are not as close to him as the former players. JB knocked on Carmelo's door, I bet JB didn't knock on woody's door. So if woody may react differently to being yelled at by someone who recruited him and helped him developed day to day instead of someone who's the overlord HOF.

I remember watching the Devo podcast where he interviewed scoop and scoop said he went to JB before a Nova game and asked if he would play in front of his home town, if he's going to sit he'd rather not go down to Philly and sit. JB said scoop would play. Scoop end up playing two minutes total, and he was upset. He said he was ready to just quit and stay in Philly and not go back to Syracuse. JB came back to talk to Scoop while Scoop was taking a shower and Scoop ignored him but eventually he came around because JB gave him a hug. I doubt today's JB would hug woody or kadary LOL.

Ha, it was more than Scoop ignoring him. Scoop said he threw his bar of soap at the wall right next to JB and was cursing him out, and Boeheim was yelling back and Scoop said afterwards he was thinking Boeheim was going to kick him off the team, but instead he hugged him and they moved on.

 

[jdubs30]

It’s a known fact that Rony absolutely hated JB at SU, and it even lingered for a few years after college. In time he saw the lessons that were imparted and they patched things up- but that was a different time.
I’ll say it again...kids have alternatives, and entourages, and branding, and social media. This year was a perfect storm w/ Covid and the transfer waivers, but it’s only the beginning. This is likely the new normal.

Dion was similar. He wasn’t a big fan at all of JB but then after he graduated and matured he understood why JB did what he did. They are way closer now

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Let’s look at the start of the season. Syracuse had Bourama © Marek (SF), Quincy (PF), Buddy (SG) and Joe (PG) as the starters with Allan, Woody and Kadary (not really focusing on him) the first players (not in order) off the bench. Bourama goes down quickly, Marek moves to Center, Allan moves to SF (plays well for a prolong time) and Woody is the first forward off the bench. COVID hits taking Joe, Buddy. Woody and possibly others down for some period of time. Buddy and Joe take turns returning (with some lingering effects) . Braswell plays in Woody’s place over the time and shows a lot of improvement. Woody returns and get less to no playing time (some related to recovery and some practice related). Allan gets a lot of the time at SF and Quincy is a fixture at PF. Braswell picks up the remaining available Forward minutes and does a good job. Woody gets spot minutes and shows some promise but can not get pass Braswell for more playing time.

Later, Allan makes unwarranted plays, gets quick hooks and Braswell comes in and plays the majority minutes at SF with notable success. Woody is basically stuck on the bench.

So, is it that Braswell played well, did the things that Coach was looking for and Woody did not.

Both transfer, implying they see the future and don’t want to be part of it. I can understand Woody leaving (he lost his previous position) but Braswell won the position and Allan leaves to go pro. Implying that the position would be his and maybe have to share the position with incoming player, Benny Williams (then a 5 star, now a 4 star). Question on how much playing time will be available at the forward position (By the way, Quincy is known to try for the pros and Allan decided to get an agent).

To me, it look like Braswell, Newton and Williams would have been the primary candidates to split the PF and SF minutes for 2021-2022. Braswell left (not sure of the reason), Woody left because of the lack of playing time and disagreement/trust issues with the coach.

Sounds to me that both players left opportunities on the table and chose to leave.

I gave that a like because it looked like you copyrighted Bourama.

Didn't read anything else once I read that tbh.

 

[two3zone]

Let’s look at the start of the season. Syracuse had Bourama © Marek (SF), Quincy (PF), Buddy (SG) and Joe (PG) as the starters with Allan, Woody and Kadary (not really focusing on him) the first players (not in order) off the bench. Bourama goes down quickly, Marek moves to Center, Allan moves to SF (plays well for a prolong time) and Woody is the first forward off the bench. COVID hits taking Joe, Buddy. Woody and possibly others down for some period of time. Buddy and Joe take turns returning (with some lingering effects) . Braswell plays in Woody’s place over the time and shows a lot of improvement. Woody returns and get less to no playing time (some related to recovery and some practice related). Allan gets a lot of the time at SF and Quincy is a fixture at PF. Braswell picks up the remaining available Forward minutes and does a good job. Woody gets spot minutes and shows some promise but can not get pass Braswell for more playing time.

Later, Allan makes unwarranted plays, gets quick hooks and Braswell comes in and plays the majority minutes at SF with notable success. Woody is basically stuck on the bench.

So, is it that Braswell played well, did the things that Coach was looking for and Woody did not.

Both transfer, implying they see the future and don’t want to be part of it. I can understand Woody leaving (he lost his previous position) but Braswell won the position and Allan leaves to go pro. Implying that the position would be his and maybe have to share the position with incoming player, Benny Williams (then a 5 star, now a 4 star). Question on how much playing time will be available at the forward position (By the way, Quincy is known to try for the pros and Allan decided to get an agent).

To me, it look like Braswell, Newton and Williams would have been the primary candidates to split the PF and SF minutes for 2021-2022. Braswell left (not sure of the reason), Woody left because of the lack of playing time and disagreement/trust issues with the coach.

Sounds to me that both players left opportunities on the table and chose to leave.

I have zero doubt Swider and Jimmy were targets before our end of the season. Newton didn’t stand a chance.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Ha, it was more than Scoop ignoring him. Scoop said he threw his bar of soap at the wall right next to JB and was cursing him out, and Boeheim was yelling back and Scoop said afterwards he was thinking Boeheim was going to kick him off the team, but instead he hugged him and they moved on.

You're plagiarizing an After School Special.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I have zero doubt Swider and Jimmy were targets before our end of the season. Newton didn’t stand a chance.

Very well could be. And people need to man up here, this is D1 hoops. Not everyone is going to pan out, and the covid rules accelerated the fallout. Looks like Woody would have had to beat the odds for starting type minutes at forward here.

The F's for SU, they are in decent shape, and with good seperation. QG sr, JimJr sr, Cole jr, Benny frosh, and Lands on deck. So, yes, Braswell and Woody were not getting starters minutes, accept the role or move on.

The Centers are also in order Sid sr, Jesse jr(3 yrs left), Frank so (potential 4 yrs left).

It's Kadary leaving that hurt. Need a quality recruit to come in, hopefully Copeland.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Yes, I want to say around mid 90s Rony said something negative about Boeheim, and Boeheim replied saying something like “Rony’s always been an idiot and he’s continuing to be an idiot”.

But yeah, pretty sure I remember Rony being at the 2003 NC game.

Ronny never heard the word no until JB.

 

[stlorange]

I'm fairly certain based on 40 plus years of observing and listening to JB that he, more than anything, wants to win the game at hand. If he thought Woody could have helped the team win, he would have played. I really think its that simple. For better or worse, he plays to win the game, player development or any other objective be damned.

 

[Bball44]

I have zero doubt Swider and Jimmy were targets before our end of the season. Newton didn’t stand a chance.

Maybe they became targets after it became known that Newton was likely to transfer.

 

[Orangezoo]

I have zero doubt Swider and Jimmy were targets before our end of the season. Newton didn’t stand a chance.

Just as Seton Hall was on Kadary likely in November/December.