WWE Thread

[Symphony Steve]

Well. THIS is interesting. Two WWE co-Presidents have been fired. Stock is down 20% in after-hours trading.

20%. That's, um, a lot:

WWE Shakeup Sees Co-Presidents George Barrios and Michelle Wilson Exit

 

[Knicks411]

There’s no good reason that Joe and Owens aren’t both draws by now if they were treated right. AJ too.

Glad there’s no Rousey though. One MMA person running roughshod over their entire division and making everyone else look like clowns, is more than enough. Still irritated that Banks hasn’t gotten a major push and title run as a heel.

I get what you're saying, but on the other hand
1) Ronda is really good, and
2) She's a legit huge star.

She pulled Becky and Charlotte up to her level last year.

Sasha is hurt again. She can't stay healthy. Feel for her

 

[Alsacs]

I get what you're saying, but on the other hand
1) Ronda is really good, and
2) She's a legit huge star.

She pulled Becky and Charlotte up to her level last year.

Sasha is hurt again. She can't stay healthy. Feel for her

Ronda was awful on the mic.
She wasn’t that great in the ring.
She was all hype from her UCF days.
I give her credit for not being a part timer and doing a full year and doing house shows. She doesn’t have good matches and was brutal on the mic.

Becky was on her Stone Cold momentum last year and the fans were behind her for how she was jobbing to a Charlotte back to the 2018 Summerslam match. Creative tried to make Becky a heel and Charlotte a face but fans revolted and they turned Becky into a badass.
Ronda didn’t make that match anythijg special IMO.

 

[Knicks411]

Ronda was awful on the mic.
She wasn’t that great in the ring.
She was all hype from her UCF days.
I give her credit for not being a part timer and doing a full year and doing house shows. She doesn’t have good matches and was brutal on the mic.

Becky was on her Stone Cold momentum last year and the fans were behind her for how she was jobbing to a Charlotte back to the 2018 Summerslam match. Creative tried to make Becky a heel and Charlotte a face but fans revolted and they turned Becky into a badass.
Ronda didn’t make that match anythijg special IMO.

Her promos weren't great (in fact, a lot of them were downright weird) but I disagree, I thought she was really good in the ring, especially considering her lack of experience.

Becky was riding the wave at the end of 2018 for sure, that was mostly of her (and creative) doing, but I think having Ronda as the target to go after was huge for her. Without Ronda there's no way the women are main eventing Mania last year. People view her as a massive star, she brings other people up by association.

I still think they dropped the ball, Mania should've been Becky over Ronda in a singles match

 

[OrangeDW]

I get what you're saying, but on the other hand
1) Ronda is really good, and
2) She's a legit huge star.

She pulled Becky and Charlotte up to her level last year.

Sasha is hurt again. She can't stay healthy. Feel for her

You’ve got a point. I will give her credit in that she did perform and the match was good. And she had other good matches too. There were lots of points in her run where the whole thing was boring to me though, and I don’t think they really need her. For the number of women’s matches that get on the card, I think they have more than enough top notch performers to fill them.

 

[Alsacs]

Well. THIS is interesting. Two WWE co-Presidents have been fired. Stock is down 20% in after-hours trading.

20%. That's, um, a lot:

WWE Shakeup Sees Co-Presidents George Barrios and Michelle Wilson Exit

Vince personally lost an estimated 125 million dollars last night after the drop.

It’s amazing how with the Fox and USA deals paying them so much in just broadcast rights the company stock isn’t exploding up. It speaks to how the company is a house of cards creative wise and Vince is leaving so much money on the table to satisfy what his brand advisors are telling him.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Vince personally lost an estimated 125 million dollars last night after the drop.

It’s amazing how with the Fox and USA deals paying them so much in just broadcast rights the company stock isn’t exploding up. It speaks to how the company is a house of cards creative wise and Vince is leaving so much money on the table to satisfy what his brand advisors are telling him.

The press release referenced a disagreement over direction going forward. I wonder if this is Vince exercising his 'inner Trump' and getting rid of the grown-ups in the room.

Not to mention, he chooses NOW to do this with his XFL due to launch next month?

As Dave Meltzer pointed out, the real problem is that they haven't created any new mega-stars. That doesn't fall on the business side of the management team. Me? I think that references to the last years of the Al Davis era in Oakland apply.

 

[Knicks411]

Vince personally lost an estimated 125 million dollars last night after the drop.

It’s amazing how with the Fox and USA deals paying them so much in just broadcast rights the company stock isn’t exploding up. It speaks to how the company is a house of cards creative wise and Vince is leaving so much money on the table to satisfy what his brand advisors are telling him.

The stock ran up so much in the build to signing those new tv deals, it was trading in the 20-30 range through the end of 2017 before exploding and getting near 95 as recently as last April (i think maybe intraday it broke $100?). Obviously that's reversed. Network not doing so hot. The Saudi deal is huge though.

I've been in and out of the stock, I thought I still had some. Was so happy yesterday when I checked and I sold it in November. Tend to think its undervalued here

 

[OrangeDW]

Old school WWF Thought/question: why did they depush Mr. Perfect as a face in ‘93? They turned him face in late 92 in the biggest angle in the company, as he turned on Flair-Razor-Heenan and teamed up with Savage after Warrior left the company.

Then he beat Flair in a loser leaves town match. The fans were behind him in a major way.

Then...nothing. They have him lose to Luger at Mania...then get knocked out after the match...then get beat up AGAIN by Shawn Michaels backstage in the same night.

Then he comes up short to Bret Hart at King of the Ring(understandable), then comes up short to Michaels for the IC belt at Summerslam. Understandable to a point, but Michaels did NOTHING with the belt after that before dropping it due to not defending it(really he briefly quit the company), they should’ve just had Perfect beat him for it. Then he does nothing significant all fall before leaving the company.

He was neck and neck with Bret for being the best overall wrestler in the company back then. They should’ve pushed him like it. What a waste of a great face turn and great performer.

 

[MSOrange]

Old school WWF Thought/question: why did they depush Mr. Perfect as a face in ‘93? They turned him face in late 92 in the biggest angle in the company, as he turned on Flair-Razor-Heenan and teamed up with Savage after Warrior left the company.

Then he beat Flair in a loser leaves town match. The fans were behind him in a major way.

Then...nothing. They have him lose to Luger at Mania...then get knocked out after the match...then get beat up AGAIN by Shawn Michaels backstage in the same night.

Then he comes up short to Bret Hart at King of the Ring(understandable), then comes up short to Michaels for the IC belt at Summerslam. Understandable to a point, but Michaels did NOTHING with the belt after that before dropping it due to not defending it(really he briefly quit the company), they should’ve just had Perfect beat him for it. Then he does nothing significant all fall before leaving the company.

He was neck and neck with Bret for being the best overall wrestler in the company back then. They should’ve pushed him like it. What a waste of a great face turn and great performer.

I know he had some back problems that knocked him out but unsure of the time frame.

 

[OrangeDW]

I know he had some back problems that knocked him out but unsure of the time frame.

I think that happened in the fall when he disappeared?

It initially happened in ‘91, which is why he stopped wrestling for over a year after dropping the IC title at Summerslam ‘91 to Hart.

He was a Raw fixture for much of ‘93. Seems like he was hot early on in his face turn, then they suddenly turned him into the guy who puts young or new heels over. He should’ve worked Lex(that gimmick was horrible), and taken the IC title from Michaels and been the number 2 face(#3 when Hogan did his brief comeback cameo) all year IMO.

 

[Alsacs]

Old school WWF Thought/question: why did they depush Mr. Perfect as a face in ‘93? They turned him face in late 92 in the biggest angle in the company, as he turned on Flair-Razor-Heenan and teamed up with Savage after Warrior left the company.

Then he beat Flair in a loser leaves town match. The fans were behind him in a major way.

Then...nothing. They have him lose to Luger at Mania...then get knocked out after the match...then get beat up AGAIN by Shawn Michaels backstage in the same night.

Then he comes up short to Bret Hart at King of the Ring(understandable), then comes up short to Michaels for the IC belt at Summerslam. Understandable to a point, but Michaels did NOTHING with the belt after that before dropping it due to not defending it(really he briefly quit the company), they should’ve just had Perfect beat him for it. Then he does nothing significant all fall before leaving the company.

He was neck and neck with Bret for being the best overall wrestler in the company back then. They should’ve pushed him like it. What a waste of a great face turn and great performer.

1991 Perfect had a major back injury.
He couldn’t wrestle and was pulled from shows.
He agreed to comeback and drop the IC belt to Bret Hart at Summerslam 1991 At MSG.

Hart in his book described how Henning put on weight because he wasn’t in ring shape and he did everything he could to keep bumps off Henning’s back to protect him. Henning let Bret kickout of the Perfectplex and beat him.

After that match Henning became Flair’s executive consultant. While Henning was collecting on his insurance policy with Lloyd’s of London.
That policy paid Henning enough to not wrestle.
He came back in 1993 to feud with Flair. His loser leaves town match with Flair on Monday night raw was outstanding.
He was a part timer and announcer till his WWF contract expired.
Bishcoff and WCW overpaid him to jump ship and he did. He took a lot of drugs to mask the back pain.
He died from ODing probably because of His back issues.

 

[OrangeDW]

1991 Perfect had a major back injury.
He couldn’t wrestle and was pulled from shows.
He agreed to comeback and drop the IC belt to Bret Hart at Summerslam 1991 At MSG.

Hart in his book described how Henning put on weight because he wasn’t in ring shape and he did everything he could to keep bumps off Henning’s back to protect him. Henning let Bret kickout of the Perfectplex and beat him.

After that match Henning became Flair’s executive consultant. While Henning was collecting on his insurance policy with Lloyd’s of London.
That policy paid Henning enough to not wrestle.
He came back in 1993 to feud with Flair. His loser leaves town match with Flair on Monday night raw was outstanding.
He was a part timer and announcer till his WWF contract expired.
Bishcoff and WCW overpaid him to jump ship and he did. He took a lot of drugs to mask the back pain.
He died from ODing probably because of His back issues.

Im talking about ‘93...he wasn’t a part timer for most of the year? He was wrestling often.

He was a commentator in ‘92 when he was also Flair’s “executive consultant”, and then again in like 95-96 when he came back - he was briefly HHH’s manager too.

 

[Knicks411]

Im talking about ‘93...he wasn’t a part timer for most of the year? He was wrestling often.

He was a commentator in ‘92 when he was also Flair’s “executive consultant”, and then again in like 95-96 when he came back - he was briefly HHH’s manager too.

Yeah, that is real weird He was seriously hurt in 91-92, and then again after that (left late 93 ish?)
So I'm thinking they knew he was only a short term guy, and didn't want to push him too hard and then have him have to go away for a long time?

 

[Symphony Steve]

2.17 million for Raw. One of the lowest non-holiday Raws ever. Down 14% from last year. WWE conference call on Thursday, The two company officials who generally conduct the call have been fired. Should be interesting.

 

[jncuse]

Im talking about ‘93...he wasn’t a part timer for most of the year? He was wrestling often.

He was a commentator in ‘92 when he was also Flair’s “executive consultant”, and then again in like 95-96 when he came back - he was briefly HHH’s manager too.

Maybe because he was a reliability risk? You may have seen him often on TV, but he may have been a high no show risk on house shows. And house shows were probably a much bigger portion of the revenue model back then.

Just a guess.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Wrestlemania is looking more like Nostalgiamania this year. Reportedly on the card: Cena vs. Elias, Undertaker vs. AJ Syles, and Edge vs. Orton. Cena vs. Elias? AYFKM?

The entire card looks underwhelming so far.

 

[OrangeDW]

Wrestlemania's is looking more like Nostalgiamania this year. Reportedly on the card: Cena vs. Elias, Undertaker vs. AJ Syles, and Edge vs. Orton.

The entire card looks underwhelming so far.

From my standpoint - there’s not much they can really do. There’s nobody new that I really care about, and the old stars that used to sell the show for people like me (because the new stars sucked or were nonexistent) are either completely washed or not even an option anymore for one reason or another(Michaels, Flair, Jericho, HHH, Austin, Rock, Foley...Taker-Lol). Not making any new stars for like 15 years has really caught up with them. The Punk/Bryan era was a last gasp that faded quick.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Wrestlemania is looking more like Nostalgiamania this year. Reportedly on the card: Cena vs. Elias, Undertaker vs. AJ Syles, and Edge vs. Orton. Cena vs. Elias? AYFKM?

The entire card looks underwhelming so far.

Elias has never really gotten a chance. Been odd. Hopefully cena helps put him over, I guess.

 

[Symphony Steve]

From my standpoint - there’s not much they can really do. There’s nobody new that I really care about, and the old stars that used to sell the show for people like me (because the new stars sucked or were nonexistent) are either completely washed or not even an option anymore for one reason or another(Michaels, Flair, Jericho, HHH, Austin, Rock, Foley...Taker-Lol). Not making any new stars for like 15 years has really caught up with them. The Punk/Bryan era was a last gasp that faded quick.

Yeah, that's the point. And they could have made new stars if Vince didn't start/stop so many pushes. I struggle to watch any of the Monday or Friday shows now.

 

[OrangeDW]

Elias has never really gotten a chance. Been odd. Hopefully cena helps put him over, I guess.

I pretty much never watch Raw or Smackdown anymore, but when I was still watching often I do recall him being quite over and them looking like they were wasting him rather than capitalizing. So typical.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Elias has never really gotten a chance. Been odd. Hopefully cena helps put him over, I guess.

I think this will just be Cena doing his five moves and winning in under two minutes. They ain't putting Elias over in this one. (Clip 'n save).

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, that's the point. And they could have made new stars if Vince didn't start/stop so many pushes. I struggle to watch any of the Monday or Friday shows now.

Yup. Feels like Cena/Batista was the last time they made new stars(Batista’s build was awesome), with the brief exception of Punk/Bryan which both felt like they happened by accident.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think this will just be Cena doing his five moves and winning in under two minutes. They ain't putting Elias over in this one. (Clip 'n save).

was it last year when Cena got destroyed by a washed Undertaker, or is that further in the past now? Is that the last time Cena was around? Its the last thing I sorta remember at this point.

 

[Knicks411]

was it last year when Cena got destroyed by a washed Undertaker, or is that further in the past now? Is that the last time Cena was around? Its the last thing I sorta remember at this point.

2 years ago. Last year he interrupted Elias, so I guess there's some build for that match. I don't blame you for not remembering what happened at which Mania; the only reason I really can distinguish is because I was at the one last year. Otherwise, when it comes to the last few years, I always need to stop for a second to remember what happened when

Yup. Feels like Cena/Batista was the last time they made new stars(Batista’s build was awesome), with the brief exception of Punk/Bryan which both felt like they happened by accident.

You can throw Becky in there also, which, of course, was also an accident