YOU GUYS MAY BLAST ME AND GO AHEAD

[Eagles20]

I think the attendance numbers will trump slower pace when it comes to recruiting coupled with the past few seasons the cuse had.

You could see it was really JB slowing the game more than just Ennis wanting to play slow. He made a quick drive in the first half and turned it over and then when he did it again in the second half he got tied up. Also the only way UNC got easy hoops was by beating syracuse down the court in transition, so why speed it up. This seems like a pretty frivolous thing to be upset about.

 

[retro44]

Any chance you are misinterpreting what these stats imply? There is a big difference between adjusted tempo and adjusted offensive efficiency. SU is the 4th ranked team in the country based on Ken Pom's stats (those are the ones you are using, right?).

And even if you are not, are you still maintaining that Tyler Ennis is the cause of the trending "decline" over the last 5 years??

Foolish to even imply that Ennis was to blame for the last 5 years, but so far we have falling another 90 spots to be within a few from being in dead last place as for tempo. Clearly this a coaching trend.

also Oklahoma St. has a tempo rating of 62 and a efficiency of 4,one place ahead of Syracuse.
There has been countless posts made by many here complaining how slow the big ten is, when in fact we are much slower than that conference as a whole. Michigan is closet team to us at 322 as they lost many players from injury or to graduation.

Most here it appears is still in denial over the facts . We made need to run a high pace game in the tournament to get back in the game in the 2nd. half and this team we will have few opportunities to learn how to run plays if this trend continues.

I love being 16-0 but what scares is we could be behind by 10-12 points in the NCAA tournament at the 5 minute mark in the second half and we might not press at all if earlier in the game the opposing team scores on it's first press. Do e still walk the ball up and start to run the motion offense at the 12-15 second shot clock. Games are so much different than in practice.

 

[retro44]

View attachment 6654

so how many hours did it take you to find that? impressive I must say

 

[orange79]

I love being 16-0 but what scares is we could be behind by 10-12 points in the NCAA tournament at the 5 minute mark in the second half and we might not press at all if earlier in the game the opposing team scores on it's first press. Do e still walk the ball up and start to run the motion offense at the 12-15 second shot clock. Games are so much different than in practice.

Do you really, REALLY, think that HOF coach James Arthur Boeheim (you know, the one with over 900 wins) would really not recognize that he might need to do something to speed up the game and increase the number of possessions when faced with a double-digit deficit? Is that really the point you are trying to make?

 

[retro44]

Do you really, REALLY, think that HOF coach James Arthur Boeheim (you know, the one with over 900 wins) would really not recognize that he might need to do something to speed up the game and increase the number of possessions when faced with a double-digit deficit? Is that really the point you are trying to make?

but do it good was my point, do you know for sure it would work with little game experience behind them?

Does this make me a bad fan for being curious about the unkowns and trends?

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Do you really, REALLY, think that HOF coach James Arthur Boeheim (you know, the one with over 900 wins) would really not recognize that he might need to do something to speed up the game and increase the number of possessions when faced with a double-digit deficit? Is that really the point you are trying to make?

Sorry, but the OP is looking for a rationale to support the argument that our deliberate offense, which has gotten us off to a 16-0 start, is somehow a disaster in the making...and there isn't a plausible one in sight...

 

[Ward]

so how many hours did it take you to find that? impressive I must say

but do it good was my point, do you know for sure it would work with little game experience behind them?

Does this make me a bad fan for being curious about the unkowns and trends?

Being curious doesn't make you a bad fan, it's the obnoxious complaining and whining. Ennis is a great college point guard who has shown throughout his high school, aau, and even here that he can do more than fine in an uptempo game. Running a good fast break or uptempo style doesn't necessarily mean it's the fastest, it's about who can run a fast break to get the best shot as possible against an unsettled defense. Something Ennis does very very well.

In regards to tempo, we do a great great job at causing turnovers. The reason we don't have as many possessions is because teams use a lot of the shot clock against us because our zone is so good that they can't get a quick easy shot very often. As a result they use a lot of clock thus reducing the amount of possessions. In a situation where we're down 10-12 with 5 mins to go in the tournament, how many teams have a fool proof plan in place for that? Who can just dial up a press that would eliminate a ten point hole at the snap of a finger and if they do why not use it the whole game? Good shots and stops are more valuable than fast shots and opportunistic risky defense. If you want to see a team run all over and go crazy go root for Memphis and enjoy their first weekend exit from the tournament every year.

 

[orangefan13]

I find it funny when people say you need to speed up the game to get more possessions and transition. This isn't the 90's early 2000s transition won't win you games you can't win in the halfcourt as much.

You get a few defensive rebounds, and you score on a bunch of possessions. I laugh at this myth of going man to speed up games. When you go man you try to put more pressure on them just like the press to force them to make a bad pass or shot. How many times have we passed the ball around succesfully wasting clock against m2m or the press up 15? We do it all time.

Its not that you cut the drive, deny the passing any better in m2m/press then zone, it never was. M2m/pressing can force them to take a offbalenced or rushed shot, but they do the same thing against the zone all time. They take a bad shot against smothering man because its the only open look they can get without a hand in their face, against zone they do it, because its the only open look they can find off passing the ball. Zone also just like man morphes and cheats out of position trying to take opponents strengths away, and it is equally succesfull at that. We play enough press to force them to try to shoot a not so good shot, and when they break it we often cut the shot clock down to 15-20 which is also big.

Buckling down, rebounding the misses, and realizing you need to score every possession wins ball games. See the Miami game where we were down with 5 left. When you are a good team you can pull that off at any point in the game it just takes hustle patience and finishing your shots.

 

[RF2044]

Syracuse the last 5 years were 2010 no. 55 '11 no.177 '12 no.209 '13 no.252 '14 no. 342 strong trend has developed in the last 5 years

And this year you have 6 ACC teams lower than 303 and the big 10 has 3 teams

When average the two leagues out the ACC IS 192 and the Big Ten is 196.

When you subtract Syracuse and Pitt no. 303 the ACC average drops to 171 per team. Both Syracuse and Pitt has a big impact on the tempo of the games in the ACC and Syracuse fans here are always slamming how slow the Big ten is. Numbers here tell a different story.


And by us playing at such a slow tempo it is also bringing the others ratings down as well.

in 5 years we have gone from no. 55 to no. 342 that's freaking 287 teams and when opposing coaches figure this out they will be using this slow tempo against us in recruiting.

Personally speaking, I think your interpretation and premise are both wrong.

Are we playing at a slow pace, a la Wisconsin [your conclusion]? Or does our defense force other teams to play slower and use more time probing the zone, which slows down the overall pace?

Five years ago, in 2009, we weren't nearly as good defensively.

 

[retro44]

Being curious doesn't make you a bad fan, it's the obnoxious complaining and whining. Ennis is a great college point guard who has shown throughout his high school, aau, and even here that he can do more than fine in an uptempo game. Running a good fast break or uptempo style doesn't necessarily mean it's the fastest, it's about who can run a fast break to get the best shot as possible against an unsettled defense. Something Ennis does very very well.

In regards to tempo, we do a great great job at causing turnovers. The reason we don't have as many possessions is because teams use a lot of the shot clock against us because our zone is so good that they can't get a quick easy shot very often. As a result they use a lot of clock thus reducing the amount of possessions. In a situation where we're down 10-12 with 5 mins to go in the tournament, how many teams have a fool proof plan in place for that? Who can just dial up a press that would eliminate a ten point hole at the snap of a finger and if they do why not use it the whole game? Good shots and stops are more valuable than fast shots and opportunistic risky defense. If you want to see a team run all over and go crazy go root for Memphis and enjoy their first weekend exit from the tournament every year.

just to put this in perspective here's a post of yours from March 15 raging on Cooney.

Can you expand on this a little bit? I'll give you that you could make a legit argument Cooney is more athletic than McNamara, and probably has better size. At some point actual basketball ability has to come into the equation tho. As a freshman McNamara caught fire from behind the arc in a national championship game and was a huge part in winning the game for us, do I see Cooney doing that this year as a redshirt freshman(a year older than Gmac) ? Not even close. Do I see Cooney going off for 46 at some point in his career and almost single handedly winning us an NCAAT game? Nope. Do I think it is possible that Cooney makes huge shot after huge shot in the ACC tournament and leads us to one improbable win after another and saves the season? Not counting on it. So I'm just curious what makes you think his ceiling is higher, because for him to reach a higher level of play than what I just mentioned is a pretty tall task.

It's borderline delusional comments like these that led to the overhype in the first place. Cooney is not McNamara and most likely will never be McNamara or Rautins. Rautins evolved into a 6'5 guard that could play point, was a great passer, and lethal from 3. I'm all for staying optimistic that he'll be able to contribute in the future, but this year hes awful. I agree that he still could become a nice role player in time, but he's only going to have to battle more and more guys for time as the years go on. He literally had no competition for his spot this year and couldn't beat himself out. And lets stop with the new popular defense of its all mental or he just needs to adjust to the speed of the game. He's been around 30+ games and had a year to sit on the side and mature and learn. I wish the best for him, it'd be in the best interest of the program and team if he becomes a great player, but lets stop with the excuses and blind defense of him. This year he was a bust and this off season needs to get better in many areas of his game to contribute next year, all there is to it.

Now my op never got near as bad trashing the player as you have,and I can dig into everyone of the posters and dig up stuff. Do you think Ennis and GMAC play the same type of game of floor leadership ?

And if you really read my first post I never said the kid can't shoot,dribble,pass defend but rather mocking out all the clowns who say the big ten is slower than Syracuse. That's the reason why I said he was a big ten guard.

People on the B.B. are very intolerant of others posts if they don't agree with them.

 

[Ward]

just to put this in perspective here's a post of yours from March 15 raging on Cooney.

Can you expand on this a little bit? I'll give you that you could make a legit argument Cooney is more athletic than McNamara, and probably has better size. At some point actual basketball ability has to come into the equation tho. As a freshman McNamara caught fire from behind the arc in a national championship game and was a huge part in winning the game for us, do I see Cooney doing that this year as a redshirt freshman(a year older than Gmac) ? Not even close. Do I see Cooney going off for 46 at some point in his career and almost single handedly winning us an NCAAT game? Nope. Do I think it is possible that Cooney makes huge shot after huge shot in the ACC tournament and leads us to one improbable win after another and saves the season? Not counting on it. So I'm just curious what makes you think his ceiling is higher, because for him to reach a higher level of play than what I just mentioned is a pretty tall task.

It's borderline delusional comments like these that led to the overhype in the first place. Cooney is not McNamara and most likely will never be McNamara or Rautins. Rautins evolved into a 6'5 guard that could play point, was a great passer, and lethal from 3. I'm all for staying optimistic that he'll be able to contribute in the future, but this year hes awful. I agree that he still could become a nice role player in time, but he's only going to have to battle more and more guys for time as the years go on. He literally had no competition for his spot this year and couldn't beat himself out. And lets stop with the new popular defense of its all mental or he just needs to adjust to the speed of the game. He's been around 30+ games and had a year to sit on the side and mature and learn. I wish the best for him, it'd be in the best interest of the program and team if he becomes a great player, but lets stop with the excuses and blind defense of him. This year he was a bust and this off season needs to get better in many areas of his game to contribute next year, all there is to it.

Now my op never got near as bad trashing the player as you have,and I can dig into everyone of the posters and dig up stuff. Do you think Ennis and GMAC play the same type of game of floor leadership ?

And if you really read my first post I never said the kid can't shoot,dribble,pass defend but rather mocking out all the clowns who say the big ten is slower than Syracuse. That's the reason why I said he was a big ten guard.

People on the B.B. are very intolerant of others posts if they don't agree with them.

This entire post from you is just mind boggling to me.

I have absolutely zero idea of what that post you just creepily dug up from almost a year ago has to do with this thread or the point you were trying to make. I'm not even sure the thought process involved with, oh this poster didn't agree with me so let me go through every post he's made since he became a member and find to paste on here regardless of its relevancy. As far as that post goes, why was that considered "raging". I said Cooney was bad last year, everyone can agree he was. I said i don't think he would have the career of McNamara one of our programs greats, not an insult. We've had many players who weren't as good as McNamara doesn't mean they were bad. I said I really hope he gets better over the offseason because it'd help our team out a ton, he Did and I'm very grateful for that. I said he wasn't going to be like rautins or GMac, I still don't see him being like them because they have different games. Those two came in with reputations of being able to handle and play point. Cooney came in as a shooting specialist who had good athleticism. That's not a criticism it's just an opinion. Two things can be different and not be an insult to the other.

When in my post did I say that you said Ennis couldn't shoot, pass, dribble, or defend? You mentioned our pace and I gave reasons as to why we may not score as much or have as fast a pace as other teams. Instead of being tolerant like you suggest in the last sentence of that post, your response is to go through all of my posts and try to find something that you thought would embarrass me to help you save face. Instead it backfired because now you just look like even more of a clown. You call other posters on here clowns when I think it's quite obvious to anyone who is reading this thread who the clown is. You tried stirring the pot and trolling and got called out on it but by numerous people. Not sure how you thought it'd go over when you just admittedly started a thread to try and get people fired up with this random were more boring than a B1G team argument. Tough break but know when to cut your losses and just walk away. And if you're so disappointed with the posters on the basketball board because of our intolerance to threads such as these feel free to spend as much time away as you'd like.

 

[Dave85]

But Ennis is a big ten guard playing for Syracuse.

Even when no pressure he never gets the ball over half court until the 27 second mark and he could have very easily had 2 ten second violations. Proof is all over the place.

This style will not translate to the pro level well as he takes too long to set up the offense. Think 24 second clock.

I know some say it's because the our zone slows the game down, I say B.S. we are slowing the game down even more.

I guess a win is a win, but I love some run and gun offense and this offense is getting big ten boring.

The best part about Ennis's game against UNC was he actually made two of those weird twisty layup drives he does to the basket. If he had a stronger three point shot Cooney would have more time to shoot. Cooney destroyed Paige's offensive ability by running him ragged all over the court when UNC was on defense. It's hard to criticize Ennis for anything. I think he's playing pretty good ball right now for a freshmen.

 

[Dave85]

I've said it before - there are some on this board that are not happy unless they are unhappy. If you can't be happy at 16-0, you can't be happy.

I think the team's average GPA could be a little higher.

 

[CaptainJ]

I have absolutely zero idea of what that post you just creepily dug up

I do believe that is the first time I've ever seen the word "creepily" used on this board.

 

[Charco]

under Pomeroy's data we are 343 out of 351 teams for tempo and that is including 15 out of 135 games for today. Even Princeton is 50 spots ahead of us.

one or two games does not put us in this territory, a season long trend does

http://kenpom.com/

I hate to pull the rug out from under your dumb argument, but the reason our tempo is so low is because we've won every game. You'll notice that all the undefeated teams are near the bottom in tempo. Why? because killing clock has a significant effect on tempo.

You're inability to differentiate between a team that is in a position to kill a lot of time and a team that plays slow doesn't reflect well on your basketball knowledge.

 

[CaptainJ]

We may slightly elevate our tempo ranking now that Grant seems to be developing a jumper that he isn't afraid to unleash quickly, and that he's been able to drive strong to the hole and finish more than in the past. I love when Tyler is able to utilize the hesitation move because of the fact the other team expects him to slow things down.

 

[Dave85]

We may slightly elevate our tempo ranking now that Grant seems to be developing a jumper that he isn't afraid to unleash quickly, and that he's been able to drive strong to the hole and finish more than in the past. I love when Tyler is able to utilize the hesitation move because of the fact the other team expects him to slow things down.

I thought UNC did a pretty good job on defending Grant. They stopped is finger roll to the basket. But he did make a few good drives. He made one jumper and then missed 2 or 3. My hope for Grant is by March he has a decent top of the key shot.

Tyler is improving every game. He made a few of the twisty reverse layups he does against UNC which was a good sign because I have not seen him make those very often before. Tyler needs to work on his three point shooting to free up Cooney to shoot. Teams are concentrating on Cooney too much which indirectly helps the team but Cooney is not making enough threes. The other thing I want to see Tyler do is dish the ball higher to the big men. When he drives and dishes Keita simply can't handle a pass below his waist. Minor stuff. You have love what both Ennis and Cooney have done this season. 16-0 is awesome. It will be fun if we can beat SU's all time best start this season!