This one's on the staff

[cuseinseattle]

And that my friend is why I asked for 5 other coaches. I knew I would get the usual suspects.

I love the K or Roy or whomever. Whomever? So I'm eligible then. I'm assuming you meant whomever has been to over 5 final 4's and one multiple titles. That's a really long list. One thing I think is messed up about comparing JB is that when he got here they were in no conference and their biggest rival was St. Bonaventure. K has been at Duke (a blue blood) and Roy has been at Kansas and UNC two of the 4 or 5 best programs of all time. It's a lot harder to build something than it is to have certain things already in place. I mean Boeheim jokes about it but kids in California didn't even know what Syracuse was when he started. I think to compare that starting point to some of these other people is kind of absurd. I'm not saying K isn't a great coach I'm just saying that should be acknowledged.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Outside of K, Pitino, maybe Roy, maybe Self, and maybe Izzo it's really difficult to sell me on anyone else being a better coach than Boeheim.

Very very iffy and hard to say. I would take a number of coaches over Boeheim that are coaching currently. Have they had the same success as him? No. Have they been coaching for 40+ years though? No.

 

[djcon57]

Once again, you responded to me for some reason about eli manning. I wasn't talking to you. You didn't say you didn't know anyone that thought jb was a good coach. You didn't say that you thought that jb wasn't a good coach. That was someone else. Why did you respond to me? I never said you couldn't dislike some aspects of jb's coaching. I dislike some aspects of his coaching. But i never said he wasn't a good coach. And neither did you. What you are wasting my time on this, I have no idea.

A) This is a public message board. We can comment on any thread.

B) I was responding to your comment, "Yeah, because it is a fair observation that jb isn't a very good coach. And that is exactly what Zonk and his friends are saying. They don't like his coaching. Hard to have a 'FAIR" conversation with something so moronic."

IMO, it's completely unfair to categorize saying they don't like his coaching as saying JB isn't a very good coach. I responded because I thought it was horse-ish thing to say and you are trying to spin conversation from valid arguments to being either Pro JB vs Anti JB. It's crap.

 

[dasher]

You can't read good.
• Didn't say you are a better fan if you get angrier. I said it doesn't make you a better fan if you are less angry. Can you see the difference? Secondly, in case that hadn't been clear enough, I said it was a SPECIOUS argument. Look it up.
• Doesn't really illustrate your maturity, calling people "dip craps."
• I said people I speak to, including myself, respect what JB has done. But we can also be critical. Personally, I think that represents a more intelligent and informed perspective than people who worship at his feet and can't see or acknowledge that he isn't without faults. But, hey, to each his own. Which is also MY POINT.
• That passionate fan at Virginia wasn't me or anyone I know. So, what's your point? As I said above, I've watched or listened to every available game (minus 4, due to technical failures beyond my control) since I stepped foot on campus in 85. Only turned one game off before the final horn. I don't much care what your metric is for 'fandom' but if I haven't met the standard, even while wanting some things to be different, so be it. My love is not dependent upon your approval. It's for life, and on my own terms.

Not what you said. First, don't come at me with things like specious, look it up. You won't fare well. Second, you said that you and your friends don't like his coaching. Most sane people wouldn't say that about a coach that they thought was a good coach. You can think and feel anyway you want. But you threw your opinion out there so it makes it fair game on this board. No one is worshiping at his feet. At least not that I can see. I see fans that understand that we have been blessed to have this guy for the last 41 years and I see petulant fans that think they know more than they do. as for the dip crap remark, it isn't really mature. But I use truth as absolute defense in this case.

 

[dasher]

A) This is a public message board. We can comment on any thread.

B) I was responding to your comment, "Yeah, because it is a fair observation that jb isn't a very good coach. And that is exactly what Zonk and his friends are saying. They don't like his coaching. Hard to have a 'FAIR" conversation with something so moronic."

IMO, it's completely unfair to categorize saying they don't like his coaching as saying JB isn't a very good coach. I responded because I thought it was horse-ish thing to say and you are trying to spin conversation from valid arguments to being either Pro JB vs Anti JB. It's crap.

Where does the I don't know a person that likes his coaching come in? You believe that you can think someone is a good coach and not like their coaching. I think that is spin and crap. I wasn't trying to spin the conversation anywhere. I responded to what he wrote. What you are trying to do, I haven't got a clue. Don't much care either.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Very very iffy and hard to say. I would take a number of coaches over Boeheim that are coaching currently. Have they had the same success as him? No. Have they been coaching for 40+ years though? No.

Then make a list and post it.

 

[dasher]

Very very iffy and hard to say. I would take a number of coaches over Boeheim that are coaching currently. Have they had the same success as him? No. Have they been coaching for 40+ years though? No.

When can we expect this list?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Why do people throw these numbers out and act like they are just amazing!

How about these numbers - At Duke, Krzyzewski has led the Blue Devils to five NCAA Championships, 12 Final Fours, 12 ACC regular season titles, and 13 ACC Tournament championships.

40 years is a long time. I wish there had been more success, but let's not all act like JB is infallible or the best in the business.

Hell, Roy Williams, who I don't think is actually a great coach has 2 titles, 8 final fours, 7 ACC regular season titles, 3 ACC tourney titles, 3 big 12 tourney titles.

JB has done amazing things for the program, but could he have had more success of the years? Possibly.

We aren't Duke. We know that. The problem is only 9 schools have made more final fours than Syracuse.

 

[djcon57]

Where does the I don't know a person that likes his coaching come in? You believe that you can think someone is a good coach and not like their coaching. I think that is spin and crap. I wasn't trying to spin the conversation anywhere. I responded to what he wrote. What you are trying to do, I haven't got a clue. Don't much care either.

I'm not "trying" to do anything other than respond to a thread in a message board, sir.

 

[dasher]

We aren't Duke. We know that. The problem is only 9 schools have made more final fours than Syracuse.

We aren't Duke. We aren't Kentucky. We aren't Kansas. We aren't North Carolina. After that, we are in the mix. And we have done it least that well.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

HOLY F.

You are coming off like a loon here.

I LOVE JB. Why would I make a list of coaches that I'd rather "HAVE". Whatever that means?

Coaches I would rather have: Archie Miller, John Calipari, Sean Miller, Coach K, Izzo, Pitino, Few, Roy Williams, Tony Bennet, Buzz Williams, Bill Self, Jay Wright, Gregg Marshall, Randy Bennett (Saint Mary's)... Your argument will be but JB has a national championship and 5 final fours! My argument back to that would be A) Most these guys have not been coaching for 40+ years... B)They are in a different situation so its impossible to compare... From a game perspective and an Xs and Os perspective I would take all these guys over JB. Just my opinion

 

[dasher]

I'm not "trying" to do anything other than respond to a thread in a message board, sir.

Well, it seems you were trying to be confrontational over something we actually agree on. We have both been here for years and to my knowledge, we have never had a discussion Probably better to leave it that way.

 

[djcon57]

Well, it seems you were trying to be confrontational over something we actually agree on. We have both been here for years and to my knowledge, we have never had a discussion Probably better to leave it that way.

I'm not. You have 15000 posts. It's hard to avoid when you are in every other thread, but I'll do my best.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Then make a list and post it.

I'll post one.

K
Don Pitino
Izzo
Jay Wright
Shaka Smart
Sean Miller (Miller has lost two E8 games to Wisconsin both one possession games (one OT).

 

[cuseinseattle]

A) This is a public message board. We can comment on any thread.

B) I was responding to your comment, "Yeah, because it is a fair observation that jb isn't a very good coach. And that is exactly what Zonk and his friends are saying. They don't like his coaching. Hard to have a 'FAIR" conversation with something so moronic."

IMO, it's completely unfair to categorize saying they don't like his coaching as saying JB isn't a very good coach. I responded because I thought it was horse-ish thing to say and you are trying to spin conversation from valid arguments to being either Pro JB vs Anti JB. It's crap.

I don't think we need explain the way a public message board works do we? I think it's crap to act like Zelda thinks Boeheim is a good coach but doesn't like the way he coaches. Zelda does not like Boeheim and to some that makes him less of fan because the guy built the program (I'm one of them). I don't care if he went there and if he has watched every game for the last 35 years (which all would have been coached by the same guy), in my mind he is less of a fan than myself or Dasher or many other people on here. He is discounting many accomplishments and I feel like he is delegitimizing Boeheim and the program in a way. I'm not sure if he met Boeheim in the 80's and he was a jerk to him or something and he has carried that crap around with him like a cancer for the last 30 years like a guy her in Seattle on sports radio named Mitch Levy but that is the reality. Stand up for Zelda if you want but don't tell people to calm down when they try and defend the best thing to every happen to Syracuse basketball which they love. That is the way I feel.

 

[dasher]

Coaches I would rather have: Archie Miller, John Calipari, Sean Miller, Coach K, Izzo, Pitino, Few, Roy Williams, Tony Bennet, Buzz Williams, Bill Self, Jay Wright, Gregg Marshall, Randy Bennett (Saint Mary's)... Your argument will be but JB has a national championship and 5 final fours! My argument back to that would be A) Most these guys have not been coaching for 40+ years... B)They are in a different situation so its impossible to compare... From a game perspective and an Xs and Os perspective I would take all these guys over JB. Just my opinion

Fine. Just curious, what is jb's head to head record against those guys? Mich st is a peer school, imho, and I think jb is 4-1 against him. I only remember two games against Few. we won them both. Buzz Williams, I think jb has done a pretty good job against him. I think you were reaching a bit at the end but even if we take your list as whole, so in all of college basketball there are 14 coaches better than jb. That seems pretty good to me. And I think he is much higher than your list. I don't think many in kansas are as high on Self as you are. He has one title and it was a gift from Memphis. Plus, he makes our tournament miscues look like nothing. Thanks for the list. I think it is a weak one. And I don't think a number of those guys would do all that well at Syracuse.

 

[dasher]

I'll post one.

K
Don Pitino
Izzo
Jay Wright
Shaka Smart
Sean Miller (Miller has lost two E8 games to Wisconsin both one possession games (one OT).

We beat Wisky in a one possession game to get to the f8. Doesn't mean a thing but it was one of my favorite games of all time. Mostly because of the woman I took to the game with me.

 

[djcon57]

Stand up for Zelda if you want but don't tell people to calm down when they try and defend the best thing to every happen to Syracuse basketball which they love. That is the way I feel.

EXACTLY...you hit it on the head. Thanks for the post.

 

[dasher]

I'm not. You have 15000 posts. It's hard to avoid when you are in every other thread, but I'll do my best.

you don't have to at all. Usually, I actually like your posts.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I'll post one.

K
Don Pitino
Izzo
Jay Wright
Shaka Smart
Sean Miller (Miller has lost two E8 games to Wisconsin both one possession games (one OT).

Sean Miller has almost been to the final 4 twice so he is better than Boeheim? The first 3 people I'm with you there is an argument to be made. I would rather the coach of my team to give back to the community than have sex with women in the bathroom at restaurants and allow strippers to sleep with recruits back that is just me. The idea of putting Wright, Smart and Miller above Boeheim is rediculious to me unless you are doing a future thing based on Boeheims age.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Coaches I would rather have: Archie Miller, John Calipari, Sean Miller, Coach K, Izzo, Pitino, Few, Roy Williams, Tony Bennet, Buzz Williams, Bill Self, Jay Wright, Gregg Marshall, Randy Bennett (Saint Mary's)... Your argument will be but JB has a national championship and 5 final fours! My argument back to that would be A) Most these guys have not been coaching for 40+ years... B)They are in a different situation so its impossible to compare... From a game perspective and an Xs and Os perspective I would take all these guys over JB. Just my opinion

You repeated half the guys i mentioned above and go on to mention 2 guys JB beat in the tournament last year because their teams folded against our press. Bennett and Few have proven so far that they can't even get to the final four. We have been to the 9th most final fours EVER. Yes it's only 5, but outside of Duke and UK who's getting to them routinely?

All I get from your posts is SU basketball isn't aesthetically pleasing enough for you. Which is fine, maybe you would rather lose pretty than win ugly?

Wright hasn't been around for 40 years and yes he has a title(last year), but he has not been as consistent as JB. He's won a significantly lower percentage of his games.

I'm not really sure what the Millers have proved yet. Sean has had his share of early flameouts and I don't think Arizona basketball is as pleasing to the eye as it was under Lute Olson.

 

[dasher]

EXACTLY...you hit it on the head. Thanks for the post.

??? That is what I was doing.

 

[Townie72]

Yeah, because it is a fair observation that jb isn't a very good coach. And that is exactly what Zonk and his friends are saying. They don't like his coaching. Hard to have a 'FAIR" conversation with something so moronic.

Maybe what's so galling about these opinions is that they are wrapped up in College sophomore-like logic such as "Boeheim isn't perfect so it's OK to point out what we think his failings are".

 

[dasher]

You repeated half the guys i mentioned above and go on to mention 2 guys JB beat in the tournament last year because their teams folded against our press. Bennett and Few have proven so far that they can't even get to the final four. We have been to the 9th most final fours EVER. Yes it's only 5, but outside of Duke and UK who's getting to them routinely?

All I get from your posts is SU basketball isn't aesthetically pleasing enough for you. Which is fine, maybe you would rather lose pretty than win ugly?

Wright hasn't been around for 40 years and yes he has a title(last year), but he has not been as consistent as JB. He's won a significantly lower percentage of his games.

I'm not really sure what the Millers have proved yet. Sean has had his share of early flameouts and I don't think Arizona basketball is as pleasing to the eye as it was under Lute Olson.

JB was under great fire for his early flame outs until very recently. Grass+ greener

 

[Cusefan0307]

This thread is crazy.