2017 Yankees Thread | Page 54 | Syracusefan.com

2017 Yankees Thread

br801 said:
I like the move for Frazier, even though he really hasn't been that good lately as donniesyracuse rightly points out. Sometimes these veterans get a bump when they come to NY and put on the pinstripes for the first time. I have a feeling that might play out here...
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I read in one of the articles that TFrazier did better away from the White Sox home...so maybe he/we will see that bump from the move...
 
I don't like giving up Rutherford, but I get it. Have to trust the people that are smarter than me.

Throwing in Clippard alone might make the deal worth it. I guess we couldn't get them to take Ellsbury too.

I hope Frazier gets a bump from jumping into a pennant race at a much more exciting place. Yankees have seen that movie plenty of times.
 
donniesyracuse said:
After a good night's sleep, I still hate the deal. I believe individual relievers are overvalued in MLB. It's why I also hated signing Chapman to a huge deal. There is no denying that bullpens are extremely valuable. The Royals of whatever year it was demonstrated this. Individuals that make up bullpens are not that valuable. There is no huge shortage of adequate relievers. Relievers are almost all flawed pitchers who excelled once they were allowed to let loose over one or two innings and focus on just two pitches. Obviously, not every failed starter becomes a good reliever. Kahnle has already proven himself so he is certainly an asset, but I just can't get behind trading a valued commodity for a relief pitcher and two rentals.

The notion that Rutherford would never play outfield for the Yankees is irrelevant. He was a commodity that could have been packaged with other commodities to acquire something the Yankees actually needed.

By the way, Frasier is barely better than Headley, if at all.

Since 2012
Frazier: wOBA = .337, wRC+ = 111 WAR = 18.4

Headley: wOBA = .328, wRC+ = 109, WAR = 20.3
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Fair analysis. I do think the Yankees needed a SP but they got a 4 year good reliever in this deal.
Frazier is going to play 1B I would bet.
So the proper WAR would be for the Yankees other 1B prospects this year.

Would you rather have the 3 players from the White Sox or Sonny Gray for the Rutherford package.
 
Alsacs said:
Would you rather have the 3 players from the White Sox or Sonny Gray for the Rutherford package.
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Pass on both. Sign Gray and Robertson in the off-season if you really want them.
 
AirForceOrange said:
I read in one of the articles that TFrazier did better away from the White Sox home...so maybe he/we will see that bump from the move...
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Frazier grew up in NJ, was a NYY fan as a kid. It could work, or at least there's an opportunity that it could. Besides, I like seeing Brock Holt starting at 3rd in Chowdah Land, 50 points below the Mendoza Line and still an upgrade over the Panda (and Rutledge, Hill, Shaw ...), who's under contract until 2020. :D
 
Cowtown said:
Frazier grew up in NJ, was a NYY fan as a kid. It could work, or at least there's an opportunity that it could. Besides, I like seeing Brock Holt starting at 3rd in Chowdah Land, 50 points below the Mendoza Line and still an upgrade over the Panda, who's under contract until 2020. :D
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The Sox are just going to get somebody like Astrubal Cabrera instead of Frazier. Which is fine.
Sandoval only has 2 years after this year on the books. It's among the worst contracts of alltime.

Boston gutted their system for Chris Sale, Craig Kimbrel, Tyler Thornburg. So they aren't going to spend their remaining quality prospects this year.
The Yankees had prospect equity to spare and used one for this trade. I do agree the trade was good for the Yankees but I get the Donnie side. He wants an impact for quality prospects.
 
I don't love the trade, I don't hate the trade. As has been already mentioned, I wish starting pitching would/will be addressed. Yes, I get the bullpen is deeper, which means starters don't have to last as long. I'm not excited at all about Cessa as our No 5 starter. At all.
 
donniesyracuse said:
It's sad that we have to resort to gut feelings and "the magic of New York" to justify this trade.
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I didn't say that entirely justifies a move for Frazier.

He's still only 31 and not broken down and can bolster this team at two positions of need right now; the wild card and a division races look like they will come down to the wire, and he very well could make the difference in either one.

I'm more than comfortable with this trade in its entirety for the package that was given up.
 
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donniesyracuse said:
It's sad that we have to resort to gut feelings and "the magic of New York" to justify this trade.
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Fair enough, I'm pleased that a.) the Yankees are in a pennant race at this point this year when we didn't expect them to be, and b.) their upstairs made the decision to upgrade their chances this year instead of standing pat. Either way is a calculated risk, but this year has been a pleasant surprise and a lot of fun. Let the enjoyment continue.
 
donniesyracuse said:
Pass on both. Sign Gray and Robertson in the off-season if you really want them.
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The problem is neither of them are FA after this season. I would have preferred to have used Rutherford to get a s/p but Oakland is likely asking for Rutherford plus one of the high end guys in Mateo or Adams or Fowler etc plus another piece.
 
Ryand877 said:
I don't love the trade, I don't hate the trade. As has been already mentioned, I wish starting pitching would/will be addressed. Yes, I get the bullpen is deeper, which means starters don't have to last as long. I'm not excited at all about Cessa as our No 5 starter. At all.
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Who says the starting pitching won't be addressed at a later date? I expect it will be.
 
JeremyCuse said:
The problem is neither of them are FA after this season.
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You're right, I forgot. I am confusing all the trade targets I have been thinking about lately.

I certainly would have preferred Gray for the Rutherford package, but I'm sure it would be nowhere near enough.

My overall position stands though. I prefer to hold on to prospects for now. Improve the team via free agency in the off season. Gray and Robertson won't be available, but similar players will.
 
donniesyracuse said:
You're right, I forgot. I am confusing all the trade targets I have been thinking about lately.

I certainly would have preferred Gray for the Rutherford package, but I'm sure it would be nowhere near enough.

My overall position stands though. I prefer to hold on to prospects for now. Improve the team via free agency in the off season. Gray and Robertson won't be available, but similar players will.
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I think Gray would be under team control thru the 2019 season. He won't be cheap. I would get it more if Rutherford was dangled to them. But now I don't see how they make it happen.

Still, bird in hand... That's why I liked the Sale deal so much for the Sox. You have to keep talking to Oakland about it.
 
Not only do the Yankees not lose any major league ready prospects, but they got the package that the sux wanted...so not only do they upgrade the IF and bullpen, but they keep those players away from the sux. I would imagine that if the Yankees could have got a good SP without giving up the farm, they would have...but I was/am not completely sold on Gray...

Rutherford was going to be blocked for a couple/few years, if not more...

Finally...they got rid of Clippard in the deal...which is addition by subtraction...
 
What will be the roster moves?

Robertson replaces Clippard. I assume Cooper and Smith go down to make room for Frazier and Kahnle.
 
donniesyracuse said:
He was a commodity that could have been packaged with other commodities to acquire something the Yankees actually needed.
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If you can't find the right starter, you make a longer bullpen.

At the end of the day, 9 innings need to be pitched. And that is certainly improved.

I also don't think the Gray talks are dead, or another starter than no one is thinking about.
 
donniesyracuse said:
He was a commodity that could have been packaged with other commodities to acquire something the Yankees actually needed.
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The Yankees need corner IF and bullpen help along with starting pitching...there wasn't/isn't good enough SP to give up top tier prospects...as that is what it would cost to get a SP.
 
AirForceOrange said:
The Yankees need corner IF and bullpen help along with starting pitching...there wasn't/isn't good enough SP to give up top tier prospects...as that is what it would cost to get a SP.
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They could have chosen not to do anything.

Despite recent struggles, the Yankee bullpen has been the best in the AL all year by any statistical measure (advanced or old fashioned). How much help did they need?
 
donniesyracuse said:
What will be the roster moves?

Robertson replaces Clippard. I assume Cooper and Smith go down to make room for Frazier and Kahnle.
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Yankees have to make room on the 40 for Frazier and Kahnle.

Someone gets DFA'd, and unless Tyler Austin gets moved to the 60 Day DL, two guys have to be DFA'd.
 
donniesyracuse said:
They could have chosen not to do anything.

Despite recent struggles, the Yankee bullpen has been the best in the AL all year by any statistical measure (advanced or old fashioned). How much help did they need?
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True...if they had decided that they weren't going for at least the WC...however apparently they have decided to go for the playoffs. Also, two of the three players, both RPs, are under control after this year...only TFrazier is a FA after this season. Both RPs are experienced and very good and under control...to me that is a good trade on paper.

I get it, you hate the deal, and it apparently any deal they would have made...which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion...
 
i like to break things out.

the plan is to win in 18 & 19 and beyond.

since Rutherford wasnt going to be here till maybe 19, so they moved him for Robertson & Kahnle, both who will be here next year and Kahnle even longer...to do so they threw in Clarkin who wouldn't have made the 40 man this offseason and would've been gone.

now lets swap slumping veterans and give you back some bullpen help...Clippard for Frazier, and to keep Frazier from the sux...Yanks threw in Polo.

maybe billy beane wants Garrett Cooper and/or someone else for gray.

maybe the yanks don't want gray and can get Cole.

and maybe just maybe...somebody takes DLsbury.

maybe the Long Island Ducks?? Somerset Patriots??
 
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