6.5 man rotation. | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

6.5 man rotation.

Jack Hall said:
correct me if im wrong but the lead grew while Gbinje was on the court? His plus minus is very good in acc play
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To counter that stat, I offer his numbers in ACC play: 2.8 ppg, .8 rpg, .7 apg, .3 spg, .5 tpg, and .2 bpg.

The question to ask: Is he the reason that he does well plus/minus-wise when he's on the floor? The numbers don't suggest "yes." I could stand in the corner of the floor, do nothing while watching my teammates go on a 10-0 run, and I still get credit for the plus/minus numbers.

Stats can say whatever we want…the truth is, if he was producing more, Coach B would play him more.

That said, my point here isn't really about G's worth--it's about the magical myth of statistical soundness. When it comes to G, I think he will steadily improve his production in ways that make us fans proud. :)

Edit: I should add that I believe G's length offers some effectiveness defensively in that it is bothersome to opponents--some things aren't measured by stats, another reason stats are misleading at times.
 
Marsh01 said:
Play the best players my friend. Playing patterson and johnson does nothing for this team. We have all american forwards. They need to play 37-40 minutes every game. Games are spaced out enough where they have plenty of time to rest.
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I only think we should play Buss and BJ in easy wins...but IMO with Roc only playing the 5, we should be giving Roberson some minutes each half...but I'm beating a dead horse.

On top of that, Roberson has looked like he's trying too hard out there. He really looks like a freshman out there but it must be tough knowing JB has the quick hook.
 
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Coach Orange said:
To counter that stat, I offer his numbers in ACC play: 2.8 ppg, .8 rpg, .7 apg, .3 spg, .5 tpg, and .2 bpg.

The question to ask: Is he the reason that he does well plus/minus-wise when he's on the floor? The numbers don't suggest "yes." I could stand in the corner of the floor, do nothing while watching my teammates go on a 10-0 run, and I still get credit for the plus/minus numbers.

Stats can say whatever we want…the truth is, if he was producing more, Coach B would play him more.

That said, my point here isn't really about G's worth--it's about the magical myth of statistical soundness. When it comes to G, I think he will steadily improve his production in ways that make us fans proud. :)
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What have you seen from G's game that gives you such optimism (in your last sentence)? He has shown very little "game" on offense. I hope you're right because we'll need the production in the Big Dance.
 
Izzo has played ten guys already in this game...and this isn't including Payne/Dawson who are injured.

Now, you can argue this is because they are trying to mix and match to make up for their (Payne/Dawson) production, but still very interesting.

I'll say it again, if either Grant or Fair pick up 2 fouls early on (within 5 mins), which I think will happen at some point, things will be interesting.
 
Coach Orange said:
To counter that stat, I offer his numbers in ACC play: 2.8 ppg, .8 rpg, .7 apg, .3 spg, .5 tpg, and .2 bpg.

The question to ask: Is he the reason that he does well plus/minus-wise when he's on the floor? The numbers don't suggest "yes." I could stand in the corner of the floor, do nothing while watching my teammates go on a 10-0 run, and I still get credit for the plus/minus numbers.

Stats can say whatever we want…the truth is, if he was producing more, Coach B would play him more.

That said, my point here isn't really about G's worth--it's about the magical myth of statistical soundness. When it comes to G, I think he will steadily improve his production in ways that make us fans proud. :)

Edit: I should add that I believe G's length offers some effectiveness defensively in that it is bothersome to opponents--some things aren't measured by stats, another reason stats are misleading at times.
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if hes out there and the lead grows then he is more than fine to give the starters a blow. to win a championship our big four will need to have fresh legs at the end. we all know we went 8 deep in 03
 
iommi said:
I disagree, marsh. We need some sort of a bench to have fresh legs...and I don't want to even mention what would happen in the event of our annual Syracuse injury or other issue...hopefully, DC's injury WAS that injury (get well soon, DC).
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If we suffer an injury to one of the starters, it will be a challenge to overcome. The depth issue this year leaves us a razor thin margin for error in that regard.

That said, I actually feel reasonably optimistic that Patterson, Roberson, and do a lesser extent BJ could potentially contribute if they were given a steadier dose of minutes.

I tend to agree with Marsh above, that for the most part we will be fine in-games, even with the abbreviated rotation. But an injury or foul trouble in a game would really be tough to overcome.

We've enjoyed such great depth / bench firepower these past few years; lacking both this season certainly hasn't hurt us yet, but it could [especially with the aforementioned, inevitable game where we are in bad foul trouble]. Very little scoring pop on the bench right now with Grant shifted into the starting lineup. Again, Patterson might be able to help in that regard. Otherwise, the "depth" we have is primarily minutes stealing to give guys a situational rest here and there. Other than Keita, who plays more extended minutes, I think it is unrealistic to expect anything else from the bench this year.
 
iommi said:
What have you seen from G's game that gives you such optimism (in your last sentence)? He has shown very little "game" on offense. I hope you're right because we'll need the production in the Big Dance.
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Let me start by saying that I don't expect that he will become a 10 ppg scorer this season, nor do I think that he will average seven dimes a game. However, when he makes a good play offensively early upon entering the game, he seems to produce more. As such, he has shown the ability to meaningfully contribute; he had eight points against Virginia Tech, and he had two five-assist games earlier in the season (granted against lesser competition).

I think what I'm suggesting is that he will (hopefully) become more comfortable as a play-maker in time, taking-and-making shots within the flow of our offense in key spots as the season progresses. Many of his issues right now aren't about his physical abilities (his form on his shot actually looks good, he has shown the ability to pass, and he is 6'6"/6'7", though he could definitely work on his handle)--they are between his ears. He's hesitant to pull the trigger or to drive the lane, indicative of a player thinking too much instead of just playing.

He needs to trust his abilities more to fit in and contribute. Confidence is a tricky thing. I guess the coach in me thinks he has time to remember he was a highly recruited player at one time. He doesn't have to be a star this year, he just has to fill his role productively.

That said, the "make us proud" comment was really more about his whole career as compared to just this season. :)
 
Jack Hall said:
correct me if im wrong but the lead grew while Gbinje was on the court? His plus minus is very good in acc play
Expand...

off topic, but where can you find +/- stats for an individual game?
 
RF2044 said:
If we suffer an injury to one of the starters, it will be a challenge to overcome. The depth issue this year leaves us a razor thin margin for error in that regard.
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Iommi says:

My point is why don't we prepare Roberson for the inevitable NEED for him to play meaningful minutes by playing him a few minutes each half now...when we DON'T have to?

Again,I also understand JB is coaching to win the games, and as others, like Marsh, have pointed output, JB plays his best. All I know is, every time Grant or Fair go flying around the basket, it is a very scary moment. Maybe what will happen is Roberson may have to play in a game, due to emergency/ necessity. Trial by fire. I'd rather avoid that.
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That's what happened today. Unfortunately, we squandered an 18 point lead, and JB certainly didn't trust Roberson to be out there when the game got close. Today was a great opportunity to get Roberson some PT, in a hostile road venue, for developmental purposes. Oh well--need to play better. Simple as that.
 
iommi said:
What have you seen from G's game that gives you such optimism (in your last sentence)? He has shown very little "game" on offense. I hope you're right because we'll need the production in the Big Dance.
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By the way, good to see that you're doing well, i-man. :)
 
Orangefan1 said:
Robertson better snap out of it. When he is on the court he looks mad that he isn't getting enough run. I understand that he is frustrated, I thought he played pretty good defense. Also if you watched the last game he was one of the only ones sitting and giving a half clap on the bench. That's a sign of an unhappy camper.
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I wouldn't look too much into his demeanor too much. Kid would have the same one if he was playing 40 min a game. Always has a serious face. He's a great kid and doesn't show much emotion. Obviously he's prob not happy about not playing but that's not him showing it. That's just how he is. Very shy
 
samspann1 said:
thanks for that, but shouldn't the "RR" equal the margin of victory/loss?
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I dont think so. For ex, MG was plus seven today. So when he wasnt on the court we were plus five as we won by twelve. Seven minus five is plus two
 
RF2044 said:
Good point, Coach. How are you feeling, Iommi?
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Thanks, guys. I updated folks who asked in another thread. I am very sore but it's manageable pain. I got GREAT news from my doctor's office on Thursday. My first follow up appointment is this Monday. Fingers crossed but optimistic that no further measures are needed... Just have a lot of healing to do.

I appreciate everyone's concern and positive thoughts. I wasn't even going to tell anyone on the board about my cancer but I'm glad I did.
 
iommi said:
Thanks, guys. I updated folks who asked in another thread. I am very sore but it's manageable pain. I got GREAT news from my doctor's office on Thursday. My first follow up appointment is this Monday. Fingers crossed but optimistic that no further measures are needed... Just have a lot of healing to do.

I appreciate everyone's concern and positive thoughts. I wasn't even going to tell anyone on the board about my cancer but I'm glad I did.
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Thank god.

That disease...
 
Jack Hall said:
I dont think so. For ex, MG was plus seven today. So when he wasnt on the court we were plus five as we won by twelve. Seven minus five is plus two
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my bad - I read the index incorrectly.
 
Jazz P said:
I wouldn't look too much into his demeanor too much. Kid would have the same one if he was playing 40 min a game. Always has a serious face. He's a great kid and doesn't show much emotion. Obviously he's prob not happy about not playing but that's not him showing it. That's just how he is. Very shy
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I can attest to this. I saw him play in high school. Kid is very introverted, even when he's doing amazing things on the court. It's not pouting IMO.
 
iommi said:
I can attest to this. I saw him play in high school. Kid is very introverted, even when he's doing amazing things on the court. It's not pouting IMO.
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Exactly. I was able to see him a few times myself. And spoke to him for a little before one of his games and he was a very nice humble kid. And like you said even after unbelievable putbacks or whatever he wouldn't show any emotion. And I like the fact that our whole team is like that. You never really see them celebrate at all. Some of these teams celebrate after every made bucket
 
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