ACC Brand - Refs - Protecting the Brand

[Hoo's That]

I’ve come to the conclusion that ACC refs don’t like Northern teams. This nonsense happens no matter what is on the line when playing a Southern team.

No. It's not that. UVa doesn't get calls. NC State doesn't get calls. Duke doesn't get calls. GA Tech doesn't get calls. As the OP noted, they're protecting Clemson. Only two teams stood a chance of getting that blatantly obvious OOB late hit call that they missed, UNC and Florida State.

 

[Roger N]

Pitt is the reigning ACC champion.

Yeah, but Clemson was out of contention at that point.

 

[orangefog]

It isn't just an excuse. Look, we hurt ourselves. No question. Letting the clock run 30 seconds before calling the time out. Just dumb. But the bigger issue to me, and those are big issues, is that I went in the game worried that the league and the refs wouldn't let us win. The P.I.??? You never see that called a P.I. The hit out of bounds was obvious. The ref was brokenhearted they had to reverse the sideline pass. I do wonder if there would have been another call if we had scored late. The ACC wanted and needed Clemson to win that game. Syracuse would not have got in the playoff if we ran the table. Can't you hear Paul Finebaum now? Oh, and by no means am I saying that the game is fixed. It isn't. It just the league knows who to assign the game to. And how those guys call a game.

Have you ever seen such an obvious review take so long as the one on that reception?

 

[orangefog]

I flipped over to FOX at halftime and they were talking about the possible Syracuse upset of Clemson. They discussed all of the possible implications. Could it open up a 3rd spot for an SEC team? What about a second Big Ten team? Maybe the PAC? They never considered that Syracuse could run the table and go to the playoff. How do they not even consider that at that point?

 

[djcon57]

Have you ever seen such an obvious review take so long as the one on that reception?

So why not just call it an incomplete pass if the fix was in?

 

[Pyle]

< 72hr until ND kickoff
> 72hr since Clemson

Pack that stuff up. Time to move on. It's all about this Sat. the ACC refs for sure but it's not going to change for us anytime soon.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

It’s a lot less nefarious and well planned than that.

ACC officiating just stinks, in general.

It has stunk since long before Syracuse joined the conference.

Even as a dye-hard SU fan - they don't all suck. I attended the Virginia game and was confident that a bunch of calls were missed. On one play it looked as though a UVA guy had caught a ball with his knee down but was given more yardage. When I replayed the game at home, however, the call was correct. He had bobbled the ball when his knee was down and secured it after the knee came up. This happened with several other calls .. each time I was wrong. The box score notes say: "Referee: Hedgepath, Timothy". And I have to say, I actually think this guy was trying to do the right thing and most of his crew's calls were reasonable.

Another guy who seemed pretty competent is Jeff Heaser (he did a good job in the NCSt game but can be off on PI calls). As Dasher posted, however, Jeff Flannigan - the CU Ref - is among the ACC's worst. It's almost like he does his best to stoke the 'rigged' narrative when SU is playing. Not only is he one-sided, his crew is terrible. It's especially frustrating because the Referee runs the game: in that position sometimes you have to throw the flag when the side judge won't (the play on GS). Or you have to say, "there was no flag" when the call isn't correct (the PI on IJ). Even after a mistake gets through, like the line judge on the Fuentes play (that 4.5 million people saw), a competent review should have picked up the push by the OL that set the whole thing up. All of this was, at best, poor officiating and, at worst, southern fried grits, although our 2d-half offensive struggles were the biggest factor in the outcome.

If it's any consolation, there can be repercussions for officials. Here's an article about a league suspension (of Jerry Magallanes) from 2015. Who is Jerry Magallanes? - ACCSports.com

 

[orangefog]

So why not just call it an incomplete pass if the fix was in?

Because it was 100% clear

 

[djcon57]

Because it was 100% clear

So was the late hit? They do whatever they want.

So we're to believe they are fixing the game at all costs...but can't just go "hey, he didnt have control when his foot came down, tough luck"

 

[orangefog]

So was the late hit?

There is gray area in those calls. The players were in motion, you can make an argument.

 

[bnoro]

I can tell when someone has never played the sport at any meaningful level, and experienced that swing of emotion and what it does to the on field physical performance when this situation arises. That lack of meaningful experience results in solely an X's and O's gameplan only analysis of sport which is short sighted.

Combine that feeling that your not up just against the very talented team (who finally woke up) but the refs too, along with your own short sighted staff and the erroneous second half game plan, and it’s an inevitable outcome. You put no credence in the former and only the latter and you’re wrong.

The spark is indeed the refs biased calls and non calls which starts all too often the inevitable cascade. It’s pretty simple to anyone whose been there and experienced it. Sometimes you can overcome it, too often ya can’t.

Ah yes the old "you didn't play D1 college ball so your opinion doesn't matter" conundrum. The calls didn't help but we hurt ourselves just as bad with everything else.

Nope. He was escorting the player out of bounds and got knocked into. If he lets him tip toe down the line he steals yards. It's bogus.

Fuentes didn't have to touch him. He was running out of bounds and was still 20 yards short of the line to gain. Let him steal 5 more yards, it literally didn't matter there.

 

[dasher]

So why not just call it an incomplete pass if the fix was in?

Well, because everyone saw that it was complete. They took a long time because they were looking for any shot where they could say call stands. It should have been ruled complete on the field. And as I said in another thread, it wasn't a fix. Nothing that obvious. The ACC knew who they assigned the game to.

 

[Scooch]

I have an acquaintance who's a college ref. Does mostly AAC games. Also have a friend who's father was a longtime college ref and worked many of our Big East games back in the 90s.

Both think this kind of talk about "fixing" and conference preference is beyond lunacy.

Or, as someone wise named Hanlon once said, never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

Hanlon's razor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[dasher]

Ah yes the old "you didn't play D1 college ball so your opinion doesn't matter" conundrum. The calls didn't help but we hurt ourselves just as bad with everything else.


Fuentes didn't have to touch him. He was running out of bounds and was still 20 yards short of the line to gain. Let him steal 5 more yards, it literally didn't matter there.

yeah, we hurt ourselves. But we should get a fair shake. And we didn't. GS was clearly hit out of bounds. Right in front of the ref. And they didn't ,make the same call they made when we hit their guy. The P.I. was a total joke. That is never called a P.I.. And wouldn't have been called for us on the same play. Did we hurt ourselves with a few dumb penalties? Yes. Did we hurt ourselves with crazy time management? Yes. Both can be true. Clemson is tough enough to beat straight up. Over coming calls is a bridge too far.

 

[dasher]

I have an acquaintance who's a college ref. Does mostly AAC games. Also have a friend who's father was a longtime college ref and worked many of our Big East games back in the 90s.

Both think this kind of talk about "fixing" and conference preference is beyond lunacy.

Or, as someone wise named Hanlon once said, never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

Hanlon's razor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Money talks. The rest is just talk. The ACC needs Clemson in the playoff. For more than Money by the way. There is a lot going on in college sports right now. You have to be a player. The ACC wasn't in the playoff last year. Two years in a row would hurt. Both financially and prestige. And there was no fix. Just the right assigned guys. In case you haven't noticed, there is a lot of malice in our society right now. A real lot. In every aspect.

 

[Scooch]

Money talks. The rest is just talk. The ACC needs Clemson in the playoff. For more than Money by the way. There is a lot going on in college sports right now. You have to be a player. The ACC wasn't in the playoff last year. Two years in a row would hurt. Both financially and prestige. And there was no fix. Just the right assigned guys. In case you haven't noticed, there is a lot of malice in our society right now. A real lot. In every aspect.

So why wasn't there a bogus holding call during our last drive? Or some motion penalty? I mean, if the right guys were assigned to make sure the outcome went to Clemson, why would they let us get down the field like we did, and have a chance to score and ruin the game?

 

[dasher]

So why wasn't there a bogus holding call during our last drive? Or some motion penalty? I mean, if the right guys were assigned to make sure the outcome went to Clemson, why would they let us get down the field like we did, and have a chance to score and ruin the game?

We didn't score, did we? They tried to call a pass in bounds out of bounds. We didn't get a fair shake. I don't know what would have happened if we did score. Neither do you. And to be clear, I didn't say it was a plot. Nothing said in the open. Just understood. And if you think things like this haven't happened, well, I disagree.

 

[djcon57]

Well, because everyone saw that it was complete. They took a long time because they were looking for any shot where they could say call stands. It should have been ruled complete on the field. And as I said in another thread, it wasn't a fix. Nothing that obvious. The ACC knew who they assigned the game to.

Agreed on all counts. My response to those that are suggesting the game was fixed.

Edit: Sorry...I misread, Disagree they were looking for any shot where they could say call stands.

They literally could just say the call stand and we would be mad, the internet would be angry and call fix, and Clemson fans would cheer. AKA what we are doing now anyway. They didn't need proof. Just make the call.

Agreed the ACC knew who they assigned and there is general bias, but also incompetence comes into play.

 

[City of Cuse]

All you have to do is look who the supervisor of officials is for the ACC and realize there is no conspiracy.

There are certainly good and bad calls, but no conspiracy.

 

[Cuseregular]

Ah yes the old "you didn't play D1 college ball so your opinion doesn't matter" conundrum. The calls didn't help but we hurt ourselves just as bad with everything else.


Fuentes didn't have to touch him. He was running out of bounds and was still 20 yards short of the line to gain. Let him steal 5 more yards, it literally didn't matter there.

no doubt we hurt ourselves, that's one of the things I said, and no one said your opinion doesn't matter but, rather, you simply don't have the data points/experience on the subject matter and, thus, can't possibly know the reality of the situation and are off on this particular subject.

 

[Scooch]

We didn't score, did we? They tried to call a pass in bounds out of bounds. We didn't get a fair shake. I don't know what would have happened if we did score. Neither do you. And to be clear, I didn't say it was a plot. Nothing said in the open. Just understood. And if you think things like this haven't happened, well, I disagree.

We disagree. But I'm not a conspiracy theory guy, so we just may have some philosophical differences about how the world works.

 

[Cuseregular]

I have an acquaintance who's a college ref. Does mostly AAC games. Also have a friend who's father was a longtime college ref and worked many of our Big East games back in the 90s.

Both think this kind of talk about "fixing" and conference preference is beyond lunacy.

Or, as someone wise named Hanlon once said, never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

Hanlon's razor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

All you have to do is look who the supervisor of officials is for the ACC and realize there is no conspiracy.

There are certainly good and bad calls, but no conspiracy.

conscious bias, unconscious bias?, call it whatever u want but its legit and occured right in front of our eyes (AGAIN, for what the 20th time!)

 

[dasher]

We disagree. But I'm not a conspiracy theory guy, so we just may have some philosophical differences about how the world work

Depends on the conspiracy theory. And I made it clear that this was no plot. Sadly, there are a lot more conspiracies than we would like to believe. We just saw people convicted for a plot to kidnap a sitting gov. We just saw a group try to over throw our gov't. But a football game is too much. Okay.

 

[Scooch]

conscious bias, unconscious bias?, call it whatever u want but its legit and occured right in front of our eyes (AGAIN, for what the 20th time!)

Referees take their job very seriously. They value their integrity to a wildly high degree. Are their bad refs? Of course. But I will continue to say that just because bad calls are made that doesn't mean there is a league-directed and crew-implemented effort to intentionally swing games.

If the argument is "unconscious bias" then we really can't have a productive conversation.

 

[djcon57]

conscious bias, unconscious bias?, call it whatever u want but its legit and occured right in front of our eyes (AGAIN, for what the 20th time!)

Where was the bias vs NC State then?

Or did the ACC decide the fix was in our favor for that game...only to screw us vs Clemson?