ACC Brand - Refs - Protecting the Brand

[goofnoff]

I'm a Syracuse fan. I've had a chip on my shoulder about the officiating ever since the horrendous call in the Notre Dame game in 1961. We all watched that one on closed circuit down at the War Memorial.

I believe there is a good 'ol boy bias against Syracuse. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people out there trying to get you.

 

[djcon57]

Never.

Seriously, EVERY fan base thinks that (a) refs are biased against them, and (b) the announcing crew favors their opponent.

yeah thats the core of what I'm getting at.

Not that the calls weren't crummy or we seemingly don't get calls in Clemson or Fla State or vs Duke in basketball...ever. I'm agreeing.

But it tends to even out more than you think if you are objectively looking at the games as a whole outside of the fan realm.

 

[Scooch]

So what? I was asked if we ever got the benefit of bias and the answer is probably yes. Maybe not against G-town or UConn but the bottom teams.

I think it's a fair question. Since this bias is so extensive and obvious, SU fans should be able to rattle off the top of their heads numerous times we won because of it. Just like we can list all the times it worked against us.

 

[RF2044]

I think it's a fair question. Since this bias is so extensive and obvious, SU fans should be able to rattle off the top of their heads numerous times we won because of it. Just like we can list all the times it worked against us.

I can -- in 2010, the Wes Johnson year where we finished the year ranked #1 and were a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament -- we won at home against a ranked West Virginia team that took us down to the wire. The refs swallowed their whistles in the final minute, and didn't call a bunch of stuff down the stretch that probably should have. Huggins was furious after the game, the missed calls were obvious -- and our "W" was aided greatly by some preferential no-calls.

But we rarely get preferential treatment [at least in basketball] at home, to the degree that other blue chip programs do. Kansas, Duke, UK -- there are games when the refs won't let 'em lose. Example -- when that terrific Cornell team in 2011 [might be off by a year or so] had Kansas on the ropes in the final minute, only to have a billion calls go against them that enabled Kansas to squeak out a win. Massive influence on the game's outcome.

 

[dasher]

I think it's a fair question. Since this bias is so extensive and obvious, SU fans should be able to rattle off the top of their heads numerous times we won because of it. Just like we can list all the times it worked against us.

That is such a dumb response I thought of just ignoring it. You know better than that. First, I never once said that the bias is extensive. Straw man. And any team that has ever won, has thought they won fair and square. No one gives a second thought about the calls that went their way. Even when they weren't the right calls. But you know that. Otherwise, you would making the ridiculous argument that there are no bad calls. You are veering off from a reasonable discussion. Very close to being put on ignore. Just for the record, cheating plots are in almost every aspect of our lives. We have seen poker and chess cheating plots. And I was clear that I don't think the refs cheated per se. But we didn't get the same call that Clemson did with the ref right there. That isn't incompetence. That was the ref not throwing the flag because he didn't want to.

 

[dasher]

I can -- in 2010, the Wes Johnson year where we finished the year ranked #1 and were a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament -- we won at home against a ranked West Virginia team that took us down to the wire. The refs swallowed their whistles in the final minute, and didn't call a bunch of stuff. Huggins was pissed, the missed calls were obvious -- and our "W" was aided by some preferential no-calls.

But we rarely get preferential treatment [at least in basketball] at home, to the degree that other blue chip programs do. Kansas, Duke, UK -- there are games when the refs won't let 'em lose. Example -- when that terrific Cornell team in 2011 [might be off by a year or so] had Kansas on the ropes in the final minute, only to have a billion calls go against them that enabled Kansas to squeak out a win. Massive influence on the game's outcome.

The best bet of my life. I took Cornell getting a bundle of pts and I was never worried about the outcome. And Cornell was out and out cheated at the end.

 

[RF2044]

The best bet of my life. I took Cornell getting a bundle of pts and I was never worried about the outcome. And Cornell was out and out cheated at the end.

Blatantly. The refs refused to let Kansas lose that game, and made calls accordingly. The better team got cheated that day.

I don't need to know the motivation of the refs or how / whether they were incented to see that they screwed a team that deserved to win.

 

[dasher]

rf, that game might be my favorite hoop game of all time. I bet a lot for me but I really thought about going to Vegas and making a life changing bet. They had us by 18 the year before and they had everyone back.

 

[dasher]

Blatantly. The refs refused to let Kansas lose that game, and made calls accordingly. The better team got cheated that day.

I don't need to know the motivation of the refs or how / whether they were incented to see that they screwed a team that deserved to win.

By the way, Cornell went deeper in the NCAA than Kansas did.

 

[Scooch]

That is such a dumb response I thought of just ignoring it. You know better than that. First, I never once said that the bias is extensive. Straw man. And any team that has ever won, has thought they won fair and square. No one gives a second thought about the calls that went their way. Even when they weren't the right calls. But you know that. Otherwise, you would making the ridiculous argument that there are no bad calls. You are veering off from a reasonable discussion. Very close to being put on ignore. Just for the record, cheating plots are in almost every aspect of our lives. We have seen poker and chess cheating plots. And I was clear that I don't think the refs cheated per se. But we didn't get the same call that Clemson did with the ref right there. That isn't incompetence. That was the ref not throwing the flag because he didn't want to.

"Dumb response"? What is wrong with you? Why do you insist on being such a jerk so often? I'm trying to have a discussion. Forget it, be you, I'm done. Put me on ignore.

 

[PhatOrange]

I hardly remember bad calls as time passes but there are a few that I'll remember forever. Mostly with basketball. The CJ Fair Duke charge and the Marquette backcourt violation.

 

[dasher]

"Dumb response"? What is wrong with you? Why do you insist on being such a jerk so often? I'm trying to have a discussion. Forget it, be you, I'm done. Put me on ignore.

You are on ignore

 

[kingtidge]

If we didn't play scared the entire second half and gave the ball to our all american RB we win the game.

The refs played a small role but we did this to ourselves. Sick of the excuses.

I think it's fairly clear at this point that Tucker is injured and one decent hit away from out-for-the-season with his wrapped leg... and our sparse use of him and his requisite removal from the next play after use, in the biggest game of the year, was proof-positive of that.

We're managing him as a decoy with kid gloves and the cat's out of the bag on that.

Clemson certainly figured that out and adjusted defensive responsibilities accordingly to shut down schrader's mobility at half time.

The remaining teams on our schedule... their coaches now know this now too.

It is what it is.

I do think Dino and Anae better have a plan b with the other runningbacks, even if they aren't nearly as effective.

Decoying Tucker in sets to open up the run game for Schrader is likely no longer going to work.

 

[TheCusian]

I lost all faith in impartial officiating when we played Ohio St in the NCAA's in the Bernie year. It was clear we were not to move on.

There's a lot of money in play, the future of the ACC and Clemson's role in it...

and I still don't trust refs with a southern accent

 

[Bayside44]

I lost all faith in impartial officiating when we played Ohio St in the NCAA's in the Bernie year. It was clear we were not to move on.

There's a lot of money in play, the future of the ACC and Clemson's role in it...

and I still don't trust refs with a southern accent

If we ever got jobbed anywhere it was that game (tOSU).

I am trying to wipe Saturday from the memory bank. We've watched the Fuentes thing a zillion times - in real time it looked like a penalty, and more important, it looked stupid and blatant (which is what a penalty often is).

The play on Shrader, not sure if anyone actually saw it. At that point the penalty was behind the play.

Calling a PI in that situation was foul hunting and they got it.

A penalty in football can be far more punitive than any in hoop or baseball, it's like a 5 minute major in hockey with 15 yards and new downs.

 

[TheCusian]

If we ever got jobbed anywhere it was that game (tOSU).

I am trying to wipe Saturday from the memory bank. We've watched the Fuentes thing a zillion times - in real time it looked like a penalty, and more important, it looked stupid and blatant (which is what a penalty often is).

The play on Shrader, not sure if anyone actually saw it. At that point the penalty was behind the play.

Calling a PI in that situation was foul hunting and they got it.

A penalty in football can be far more punitive than any in hoop or baseball, it's like a 5 minute major in hockey with 15 yards and new downs.

Yep. Penalties are drive killers and drive extenders when you get only so many

 

[NJCuse97]

I think it's a fair question. Since this bias is so extensive and obvious, SU fans should be able to rattle off the top of their heads numerous times we won because of it. Just like we can list all the times it worked against us.

Just because I like the premise of the question, and it's admittedly hard to do that self inspection, but the first that jumps to mind is the "missed" FG against... damn if I can't recall. I don't think it was Akron, but considering the loss to Akron got ESPN to do a piece on how bad we were, and ultimately got GRob fired, I assume there was some "home cooking" in that Marrone era game. Whatever the FG game was, the ball went just inside the upright and they called it no good to preserve our win.

I'm sure we got some in our 2014 Nova football game.

 

[djcon57]

Just because I like the premise of the question, and it's admittedly hard to do that self inspection, but the first that jumps to mind is the "missed" FG against... damn if I can't recall. I don't think it was Akron, but considering the loss to Akron got ESPN to do a piece on how bad we were, and ultimately got GRob fired, I assume there was some "home cooking" in that Marrone era game. Whatever the FG game was, the ball went just inside the upright and they called it no good to preserve our win.

I'm sure we got some in our 2014 Nova football game.

2011 Toledo.

 

[Bvilledave]

The ACC website says the supervisor of officials is DS Winney, but didn’t provide any other info.

The supervisor of acc officials is from Camillus. This is his last year. Meant him at the greater Syracuse hall of fame in 2017. Wish I could have talked longer with him, but is a great guy

 

[CousCuse]

If SU had won last week I could just about guarantee that they would have a let down this week and lose to Notre Dame or without a doubt lose one the tough games coming up. The chances of going 13-0 and making the playoffs would be negligible so I'm good with the ACC putting their chips on Clemson, if they do such things. And I would much rather they a lose a close game at Clemson and get a win against Notre Dame in the JMA than the other way around.

 

[Roger N]

I'm a Syracuse fan. I've had a chip on my shoulder about the officiating ever since the horrendous call in the Notre Dame game in 1961. We all watched that one on closed circuit down at the War Memorial.

I believe there is a good 'ol boy bias against Syracuse. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people out there trying to get you.

I remember the ‘61 game, about 1,000 fans showed up at Hancock to greet the team. I’ve hated Notre Dame ever since.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

I think a lot of this is time, place, situation. You’re a ref in Death Valley, the crowd is going crazy, you’re more apt to side with the mob. That’s not nefarious, it’s human nature.

I think a lot of the refs are underpaid, overworked, and under trained. Get them in a high pressure situation where they get heaps of scorn hurled upon them in the moment, or they don’t, what do you think they’ll choose subconsciously?

The adjustments in refereeing calls based on location and situation is an AMAZING sociological study waiting to happen. Also think about the repercussions of momentum. We all felt it WITHOUT the penalties. SU was reeling. How easy is it to look at a 60/40 play and push it towards the way the crowd/your emotions/and momentum is going?

It’s 100% nebulous, but I think it plays an outsized role in sports where the refs aren’t top notch and are more apt to be undone by time/location/situation.

 

[City of Cuse]

The supervisor of acc officials is from Camillus. This is his last year. Meant him at the greater Syracuse hall of fame in 2017. Wish I could have talked longer with him, but is a great guy

 

[Scooch]

The supervisor of acc officials is from Camillus. This is his last year. Meant him at the greater Syracuse hall of fame in 2017. Wish I could have talked longer with him, but is a great guy

So you’re saying he’s a traitor?! This thing runs so deep! Where’s Deep Throat when we need him?!

 

[SuFTW]

The ACC website says the supervisor of officials is DS Winney, but didn’t provide any other info.

The supervisor of acc officials is from Camillus. This is his last year. Meant him at the greater Syracuse hall of fame in 2017. Wish I could have talked longer with him, but is a great guy

Pleas tell me you know I was kidding.