ACC Meetings ...

[elimunelson]

After the ACC old guard politics got involved...several schools really didn't want us in (UNC and UVA were two of them)...and VTech received the invite after VA Governor Warner got involved...Cuse had cake on their face so we said mea culpa to the Big East and tried to make it work. Yes, Boeheim ran his mouth and old ACC fans cite that but Virginia Tech won on a power play and ACC traditionalists wanting a Piedmont centric league.

BC played both sides against the middle and when 11 teams scuttled an ACC FB Championship they secretly worked to get the 12th slot.

I loved much of what the Big East was all about but if we didn't go to the ACC we'd be UConn in FB right now playing in a Dome with fresh paint but no new roof.

I think we demonize BC for what they did but I'm sure we would have done the same if presented with the three dimensional chessboard to accomplish it, in 2004. By 2011 we hit the detonation button on the Big East anyway. BC did what was best for BC just like Syracuse did what was best for Syracuse.

UConn cried about the entire thing because they didn't get a chance to do the same thing.

BC was always more attractive to world building than Syracuse was purely on the market.

I think UNC and Duke were against any team coming into the ACC. It wasn't just Syracuse. Bees, correct me on that but i thought they were pretty much against all forms of expansion

 

[Bayside44]

I think we demonize BC for what they did but I'm sure we would have done the same if presented with the three dimensional chessboard to accomplish it, in 2004. By 2011 we hit the detonation button on the Big East anyway. BC did what was best for BC just like Syracuse did what was best for Syracuse.

UConn cried about the entire thing because they didn't get a chance to do the same thing.

BC was always more attractive to world building than Syracuse was purely on the market.

I think UNC and Duke were against any team coming into the ACC. It wasn't just Syracuse. Bees, correct me on that but i thought they were pretty much against all forms of expansion

The ACC needed 10 votes. They had 10. UNC and Duke were going to die on the proverbial hill. Then Connecticut native Mark Warner decided he wanted to be a Senator and went all in on VT. UVa did what they had to do in their financial best interest. (which is probably hooey in real life but it played in a small window).

Logan airport > Hancock airport

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

This is an interesting thread, but my recollection is that the ACC only came after the BE teams when the rumors of UMass to the Big 10 started.

 

[SU68]

I don’t think the ACC pushed us down. It was other factors, including luck. The NCAA sanctions…some bad coaching hires…a good coach leaving…some rule changes…

Don't forget a chancellor and AD in over their heads.

 

[Moontan]

I think UNC and Duke were against any team coming into the ACC. It wasn't just Syracuse. Bees, correct me on that but i thought they were pretty much against all forms of expansion

That is correct. They abstained in voting.
Miami, BCU & SU were going in until the VA governor got involved.

 

[WoadBlue]

I think we demonize BC for what they did but I'm sure we would have done the same if presented with the three dimensional chessboard to accomplish it, in 2004. By 2011 we hit the detonation button on the Big East anyway. BC did what was best for BC just like Syracuse did what was best for Syracuse.

UConn cried about the entire thing because they didn't get a chance to do the same thing.

BC was always more attractive to world building than Syracuse was purely on the market.

I think UNC and Duke were against any team coming into the ACC. It wasn't just Syracuse. Bees, correct me on that but i thought they were pretty much against all forms of expansion

UNC and Dook did NOT want to go to 12 members. Their desire was to add Miami and stop at 10 members, and then look at the situation again in a few years. Once UVA was 'encouraged' to vote Yes on expansion to 12 if VT were voted in as #10 before any other school could be added, then the UNC and Dook votes against going to 12 meant nothing.

BC understood ACC politics and worked with them to secure the 12th slot. Syracuse seemed to be led by Boeheim and his strong desire to remain BE.

I would have taken WVU or Pitt before BC.

The ACC needed 10 votes. They had 10. UNC and Duke were going to die on the proverbial hill. Then Connecticut native Mark Warner decided he wanted to be a Senator and went all in on VT. UVa did what they had to do in their financial best interest. (which is probably hooey in real life but it played in a small window).

Logan airport > Hancock airport

The 10th vote was UVA. Until the full pressure of VA state government was applied, UVA was going to vote NO to adding 3 schools,, and then vote YES to adding Miami as the 10th ACC member. Just like UNC and Dook.

So there never was a time when the 'Miami plan' (add Miami, BC, and Cuse as a group) was accepted even in principle. That is just what Miami wanted and what FSU wanted as part of getting Miami ASAP. And the fact that Clemson, GT, and NCSU were very happy to get VT as the 10th means that they only went along with the Miami plan until something they preferred could happen.

 

[WoadBlue]

That is correct. They abstained in voting.
Miami, BCU & SU were going in until the VA governor got involved.

Nope. If the VA Gov (and much of the rest of state govt) hadn't gotten involved, UVA would have voted NO on adding 3 schools to the ACC, along with UNC and Dook. Lacking 10 votes to get to 12, the ACC then would have added Miami and stopped at 10.

The VA state pressure on UVA to vote Yes to 12 was restricted to UVA voting Yes only if VT were guaranteed to be #10.

It was impossible for both BC and Cuse to be added to the ACC at that time. The votes never were there.

 

[orange79]

BC understood ACC politics and worked with them to secure the 12th slot. Syracuse seemed to be led by Boeheim and his strong desire to remain BE.

Just because you keep saying this over and over does not make it true.

Because it's not. Stop it.

 

[All4SU]

UNC and Dook did NOT want to go to 12 members. Their desire was to add Miami and stop at 10 members, and then look at the situation again in a few years. Once UVA was 'encouraged' to vote Yes on expansion to 12 if VT were voted in as #10 before any other school could be added, then the UNC and Dook votes against going to 12 meant nothing.

BC understood ACC politics and worked with them to secure the 12th slot. Syracuse seemed to be led by Boeheim and his strong desire to remain BE.

I would have taken WVU or Pitt before BC.


The 10th vote was UVA. Until the full pressure of VA state government was applied, UVA was going to vote NO to adding 3 schools,, and then vote YES to adding Miami as the 10th ACC member. Just like UNC and Dook.

So there never was a time when the 'Miami plan' (add Miami, BC, and Cuse as a group) was accepted even in principle. That is just what Miami wanted and what FSU wanted as part of getting Miami ASAP. And the fact that Clemson, GT, and NCSU were very happy to get VT as the 10th means that they only went along with the Miami plan until something they preferred could happen.

The Boeheim excuse is just a public perception. It had nothing to do with what transpired. Just like how JB didn’t keep Manley from closing… didn’t keep the BE from adding football teams…

 

[rrlbees]

Only 2 no’s couldn’t keep SU out. Duke and unc were no’s until Warner threatened the UVa president and applied a lot of pressure. Several straw votes were taken on schools and SU had the 7 yeses until Warner was able to flip UVA. Go see what Debbie Yow and John Swofford said after their visit to SU. It was so much a lock that the formal announcement had been drafted.

 

[javadoc]

Only 2 no’s couldn’t keep SU out. Duke and unc were no’s until Warner threatened the UVa president and applied a lot of pressure. Several straw votes were taken on schools and SU had the 7 yeses until Warner was able to flip UVA. Go see what Debbie Yow and John Swofford said after their visit to SU. It was so much a lock that the formal announcement had been drafted.

Between the Vick recruitment and the ACC expansion, the state of Virginia has been a pretty big poop sandwich for SU football. Bunch of ramrods who can't follow through on a process. Untrustworthy.

 

[Bayside44]

UNC and Dook did NOT want to go to 12 members. Their desire was to add Miami and stop at 10 members, and then look at the situation again in a few years. Once UVA was 'encouraged' to vote Yes on expansion to 12 if VT were voted in as #10 before any other school could be added, then the UNC and Dook votes against going to 12 meant nothing.

BC understood ACC politics and worked with them to secure the 12th slot. Syracuse seemed to be led by Boeheim and his strong desire to remain BE.

I would have taken WVU or Pitt before BC.


The 10th vote was UVA. Until the full pressure of VA state government was applied, UVA was going to vote NO to adding 3 schools,, and then vote YES to adding Miami as the 10th ACC member. Just like UNC and Dook.

So there never was a time when the 'Miami plan' (add Miami, BC, and Cuse as a group) was accepted even in principle. That is just what Miami wanted and what FSU wanted as part of getting Miami ASAP. And the fact that Clemson, GT, and NCSU were very happy to get VT as the 10th means that they only went along with the Miami plan until something they preferred could happen.

My understanding from UVa people (I live here) is different than this.

John Swofford would have to be dumber than a bag of hammers to have press conferences on our campuses if your story is true.

 

[All4SU]

Between the Vick recruitment and the ACC expansion, the state of Virginia has been a pretty big poop sandwich for SU football. Bunch of ramrods who can't follow through on a process. Untrustworthy.

Well we did get two of their football assistants. Interested to see how that works out. Could offset some of that “poop.”

 

[WoadBlue]

My understanding from UVa people (I live here) is different than this.

John Swofford would have to be dumber than a bag of hammers to have press conferences on our campuses if your story is true.

John Swofford did not organize any of what happened. He did not anticipate VA state government getting involved and doing so quite forcefully and quickly. Swofford, who on this was largely under the sway of FSU and Bowden, assumed that he could win over UNC to vote to go to 12, which Dook and UVA would then follow or else abstain. He had no idea that VT had such clout, nor that some schools who were ardently for 12 members (to get the CCG), were less than thrilled with the idea of both BC and Syracuse. Clemson people - who had axes to grind with Swofford from way back - led that group. Swofford's quick embrace of the Miami Plan (to add Miami, BC, and Cuse) and the long time Clemson resentments of Swofford may have been the only reason that Clemson people were big on VT before anybody else but me seemed to think that VT belonged in the ACC.

Do you think it mathematically possible for the ACC to have gone to 12 with BC and Cuse both admitted once VT crashed the party? VT fought to get in. ACC football needed that, as the next decade showed. Miami was assured of being #11. No more than 1 of BC and Cuse could be #12.

 

[Bayside44]

John Swofford did not organize any of what happened. He did not anticipate VA state government getting involved and doing so quite forcefully and quickly. Swofford, who on this was largely under the sway of FSU and Bowden, assumed that he could win over UNC to vote to go to 12, which Dook and UVA would then follow or else abstain. He had no idea that VT had such clout, nor that some schools who were ardently for 12 members (to get the CCG), were less than thrilled with the idea of both BC and Syracuse. Clemson people - who had axes to grind with Swofford from way back - led that group. Swofford's quick embrace of the Miami Plan (to add Miami, BC, and Cuse) and the long time Clemson resentments of Swofford may have been the only reason that Clemson people were big on VT before anybody else but me seemed to think that VT belonged in the ACC.

Do you think it mathematically possible for the ACC to have gone to 12 with BC and Cuse both admitted once VT crashed the party? VT fought to get in. ACC football needed that, as the next decade showed. Miami was assured of being #11. No more than 1 of BC and Cuse could be #12.

Somewhere in the dark web you can find this board version 2003 and all the links, quotes, stories, etc are there.

The simple fact is there were ten votes for Cuse until there weren't, which was because of Mark Warner and UVa. The rest is mudding the waters. Old, old waters.

Happy Friday, I'm going to hit golf balls.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The Boeheim excuse is just a public perception. It had nothing to do with what transpired. Just like how JB didn’t keep Manley from closing… didn’t keep the BE from adding football teams…

Boeheim says things.

Only Juli really listens.

 

[Scooch]

John Swofford did not organize any of what happened. He did not anticipate VA state government getting involved and doing so quite forcefully and quickly. Swofford, who on this was largely under the sway of FSU and Bowden, assumed that he could win over UNC to vote to go to 12, which Dook and UVA would then follow or else abstain. He had no idea that VT had such clout, nor that some schools who were ardently for 12 members (to get the CCG), were less than thrilled with the idea of both BC and Syracuse. Clemson people - who had axes to grind with Swofford from way back - led that group. Swofford's quick embrace of the Miami Plan (to add Miami, BC, and Cuse) and the long time Clemson resentments of Swofford may have been the only reason that Clemson people were big on VT before anybody else but me seemed to think that VT belonged in the ACC.

Do you think it mathematically possible for the ACC to have gone to 12 with BC and Cuse both admitted once VT crashed the party? VT fought to get in. ACC football needed that, as the next decade showed. Miami was assured of being #11. No more than 1 of BC and Cuse could be #12.

Everyone knows the math. And everyone knows that Miami, SU and BC would have accepted invites to join the ACC in 2003 if Gov. Warner hadn't gotten involved. Everything that followed was a hastily planned cluster.

 

[All4SU]

Boeheim says things.

Only Juli really listens.

And Rony Seikaly…

 

[HRE Otto IV]

ACC is lucky that the Eastern Independents never had the foresight to create a football league.

Boston College, Syracuse, Penn State, Pitt, Temple, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Florida State, Miami should have all been in the same conference. Then when conference championships became a thing they could have raided the ACC for two more schools.

 

[All4SU]

ACC is lucky that the Eastern Independents never had the foresight to create a football league.

Boston College, Syracuse, Penn State, Pitt, Temple, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Florida State, Miami should have all been in the same conference. Then when conference championships became a thing they could have raided the ACC for two more schools.

They had the foresight. They were just late and missed their window because everyone’s favorite pedophile enabler wouldn’t allow his precious to be included. Dave Gavitt saw an opportunity, jumped in, and the rest is history.

 

[cusefan88]

So what are the odds that 3-5-5 pods happen? There's a stunning lack of variety in scheduling and the ability to play every team home and away over four years seems perfect.

 

[longtimefan]

So what are the odds that 3-5-5 pods happen? There's a stunning lack of variety in scheduling and the ability to play every team home and away over four years seems perfect.

They have about 6 months to figure it out--the 2023 schedule will come out next January.

The post-meeting comments repeated the mantra that the league would work with its media partners (ESPN) on scheduling issues. The conjecture is that the league is looking for a way to increase media revenues, and that letting ESPN give input on football matchups might be the only way to pry extra $$$ out of the World Wide Leader.

 

[sutomcat]

So what are the odds that 3-5-5 pods happen? There's a stunning lack of variety in scheduling and the ability to play every team home and away over four years seems perfect.

Sounds like it is close to a done deal divisions are going away. Sounds like 3-5-5 is the scheduling model we are going to. I think the big question is who will be paired with who as permanent rivals.

 

[All4SU]

The ACC should apply a point system to the members. Since every decision is about money, base it on money. Rank the teams from 1-14 based on how much $ they have brought into the league in the last 10 years. Then the #1 team gets first pick at a rival… and so on down the line. If, for example, Clemson picks first, and they pick FSU, great. When FSU picks, they get to pick another team, so FSU now has two locked in. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The ACC should apply a point system to the members. Since every decision is about money, base it on money. Rank the teams from 1-14 based on how much $ they have brought into the league in the last 10 years. Then the #1 team gets first pick at a rival… and so on down the line. If, for example, Clemson picks first, and they pick FSU, great. When FSU picks, they get to pick another team, so FSU now has two locked in. Lather, rinse, repeat.

And we're sitting on the couch with Sidney, Jugdish, Mohammed, and Clayton.