ACC Meetings ...

[baggerbob]

It was a great season. One in 20 years has been "great". The ACC has pushed us down more than propped us up. That's my opinion. I know many will say "that's a crazy opinion, look at all the good". i'm just realistic about what the good is minus having more money in the AD. To me it's an industrial complex issue where you have a huge AD budget, huge coaching budgets, huge recruiting budgets and the results have moved incrementally.

To me looking at the entire move to the ACC. Makes sense financially and from the "well i don't want to be left behind" perspective. Those are going to be reasons that ultimately don't work out for the university on a very very very long time line.

Again, I expect very few likes from this perspective. I just don't see what we gained having 30k fans at the dome for NC State vs 25k fans at the Dome for Cincy or UConn yearly. The school is not aligned with peers across the board in the ACC.

Plus the ACC officials have been terrible in both major sports.

 

[Chip]

I agree with the ACC Decision in 2011. I am not against the university thinking money first and foremost. Just trying to say, badly mind you, that when we look back at the era of 2011-2027 (or whenever the ACC is split up), we will wonder what Syracuse gained from that period. our academic ranking has basically gone backwards (even being aligned with better schools), football has been stagnate and basketball isn't what it was in the hay days of the big east.

There's real reasons for all of this but ultimately the scoreboard shows the ACC hasn't moved the Syracuse operation higher than it was in 2011. I think we'll have a better sense in 2040 when we are in a different conference. If it's worse, i'll eat crow.

I would think the history books would say that Syracuse has a lot of self inflicted wounds in that timeframe.

 

[nd1973]

My guess: The ACC doesn't exist in 2030ish (if not 2025) if the GoR is like a bond losing value by the year. Ultimately all these divisional machinations will be irrelevant because our ship will be in another port, hopefully as i was told, with the likes of ND, Stanford and other higher learning vessels

Reading that whole chain it seems that we will have to decide between the Big Ten and SEC model moving forward. I assume the Big 10 will want to keep academics around, while the SEC may be okay jettisoning them all together. Is that what others got? I am on 2 hours of sleep so I may be totally wrong.

 

[storange]

If we had not joined the ACC, we'd be UConn. Struggling to pay for football and the rest of our AD.

Totally disagree with your post. It was exactly the right move.

Aye, I often lament being outcasts in the ACC but it was the only choice if we want football which is my # 1 team as far as devotion .

 

[Orijinal]

Guys, as I've thought about this and read through some threads, I think I got it all figured out.

The Big Ten and SEC will go semi-pro (maybe add some teams from other conferences while they are at it). Syracuse and many others will lose out in the short term

In the long-term, the semi-pro league will need to expand to appeal to a more national audience, and Syracuse and others across the country will be brought in

 

[javadoc]

Guys, as I've thought about this and read through some threads, I think I got it all figured out.

The Big Ten and SEC will go semi-pro (maybe add some teams from other conferences while they are at it). Syracuse and many others will lose out in the short term

In the long-term, the semi-pro league will need to expand to appeal to a more national audience, and Syracuse and others across the country will be brought in

If this does go the way of shamelessly throwing millions of dollars at dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks jocks, with a removal of any expectation that the "kids" do actual school work and spend time on that, as opposed to just weightlifting and finding ways to get into trouble with their newfound millions, then I want no part of that. You have to be aligned with similarly situated peer institutions, where the playing field is more or less level. If L$U turns into a true, unabashed, full-fledged diploma mill that just churns out illiterate millionaires (until they've squandered it!), then there is nothing to be gained from playing in that cesspool. Why would anyone even try, unless they had raced to the bottom as well?

 

[Orijinal]

If this does go the way of shamelessly throwing millions of dollars at dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks jocks, with a removal of any expectation that the "kids" do actual school work and spend time on that, as opposed to just weightlifting and finding ways to get into trouble with their newfound millions, then I want no part of that. You have to be aligned with similarly situated peer institutions, where the playing field is more or less level. If L$U turns into a true, unabashed, full-fledged diploma mill that just churns out illiterate millionaires (until they've squandered it!), then there is nothing to be gained from playing in that cesspool. Why would anyone even try, unless they had raced to the bottom as well?

I could not agree with this any more than I already do

 

[All4SU]

If we had been included in the first ACC grab with Miami and VT we would have been in MUCH better shape. All programs were performing better. The stall to the death knell of the BE did us no favors.

 

[All4SU]

If this does go the way of shamelessly throwing millions of dollars at dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks jocks, with a removal of any expectation that the "kids" do actual school work and spend time on that, as opposed to just weightlifting and finding ways to get into trouble with their newfound millions, then I want no part of that. You have to be aligned with similarly situated peer institutions, where the playing field is more or less level. If L$U turns into a true, unabashed, full-fledged diploma mill that just churns out illiterate millionaires (until they've squandered it!), then there is nothing to be gained from playing in that cesspool. Why would anyone even try, unless they had raced to the bottom as well?

Thank you. I couldn’t have said it better.

 

[TheCusian]

Go, I love ya but we are a top 3 bottom team in the ACC. I'm a P believer like you are. We are nowhere where were under his tutelage in the 90s. The excuses are just compounding now and you wonder if it's just Syracuse not the specifics that have led to the downturn.

I hope we win 8-10 games this year but my guess is we'll be 4-6 wins at most. There will be a new set of excuses. The ACC is hard for Syracuse. Simple as that.

The changes in CFB just since we've joined the ACC are huge. If you go back go P, they are seismic. "Excuses" means that these changes were not big at all and we should have sailed through at the same rate as the P days. That's an insane take.

The ACC isn't hard for Syracuse. CFB is hard for NE teams. The ACC gives us a better chance than not.

 

[orangmannc1]

If we had been included in the first ACC grab with Miami and VT we would have been in MUCH better shape. All programs were performing better. The stall to the death knell of the BE did us no favors.

The first ACC grab was suppose to be Miami BC and Syracuse. Politics being what it was at the time, VT took SU place.

 

[TheCusian]

If this does go the way of shamelessly throwing millions of dollars at dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks jocks, with a removal of any expectation that the "kids" do actual school work and spend time on that, as opposed to just weightlifting and finding ways to get into trouble with their newfound millions, then I want no part of that. You have to be aligned with similarly situated peer institutions, where the playing field is more or less level. If L$U turns into a true, unabashed, full-fledged diploma mill that just churns out illiterate millionaires (until they've squandered it!), then there is nothing to be gained from playing in that cesspool. Why would anyone even try, unless they had raced to the bottom as well?

That's why I think the forgone conclusion that the B1G will be semi-pro is misguided. I think players in the P5 should be considered employees or earn money relative to the size of the TV contract, but I'm less on board if it means academic standards should be harmed. I think the all of the conferences outside of the SEC think this way too.

Big picture? I think most of the P5 should keep student athletes, join together to negotiate one TV deal and split it up between everyone and work out an equitable payment structure and stringent rules around NIL deals; a governing body with teeth. Would we be in it? I don't know. But the sport should be national, with NE teams if it wants the most eyeballs.

It's not that outlandish:
OSU AD: Let football belong to CFP, not NCAA

The biggest problem is the SEC/B1G greed machine.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[GoSU96]

Go, I love ya but we are a top 3 bottom team in the ACC. I'm a P believer like you are. We are nowhere where were under his tutelage in the 90s. The excuses are just compounding now and you wonder if it's just Syracuse not the specifics that have led to the downturn.

I hope we win 8-10 games this year but my guess is we'll be 4-6 wins at most. There will be a new set of excuses. The ACC is hard for Syracuse. Simple as that.

The goal for the program right now is to reset the floor in conference. Too many 2-6 years, need to find a way to lock in two more wins.

Dino has at least one win against everyone he’s played in conference except Miami. Since Dino took over Clemson has lost to 8 different teams, one being Syracuse. The only team to beat them twice is Pitt. The only other conference loss was NC St. And SU could be 3-2 against them if they had made a couple more plays in the 2018 and 2021 games, essentially two fourth down conversions by Clemson.

3-3 vs BC, 2-0 vs VT, 1-0 vs GT, 1-1 vs Duke and UNC, 2-4 vs wake. Dino has not been good in the Division and against Pitt, 1-5 against Clemson, FSU, Pitt, Lville, and NCSt. That has to get better

There probably isn’t a team in the conference that will benefit more from dropping divisions.

 

[WoadBlue]

The first ACC grab was suppose to be Miami BC and Syracuse. Politics being what it was at the time, VT took SU place.

Then the slot was left open for a year as the ACC played with 11 members. Syracuse took itself out by talking up the BE. BC got it by default.

At the time I was screaming to take either WVU or Pitt, not BC.

 

[orange79]

So, they decided nothing. But they talked!

 

[WoadBlue]

That's why I think the forgone conclusion that the B1G will be semi-pro is misguided. I think players in the P5 should be considered employees or earn money relative to the size of the TV contract, but I'm less on board if it means academic standards should be harmed. I think the all of the conferences outside of the SEC think this way too.

Big picture? I think most of the P5 should keep student athletes, join together to negotiate one TV deal and split it up between everyone and work out an equitable payment structure and stringent rules around NIL deals; a governing body with teeth. Would we be in it? I don't know. But the sport should be national, with NE teams if it wants the most eyeballs.

It's not that outlandish:
OSU AD: Let football belong to CFP, not NCAA

The biggest problem is the SEC/B1G greed machine.

I think each of them is pushing as hard as possible to get things down to 2 conferences, with as many as 24 teams. I don't think either will be happy if even the P5 survive. They most certainly do not want to play as equals against the G5. They want a dual, a shared, monopoly on the top level of CFB.

Yes, it is pure greed, coupled with the BT's historic pattern of restricting competition.

 

[orange79]

Then the slot was left open for a year as the ACC played with 11 members. Syracuse took itself out by talking up the BE. BC got it by default.

At the time I was screaming to take either WVU or Pitt, not BC.

Yeah, that's not how it went down.

I'm not sure why you are interested in rewriting history, but whatever.

 

[WoadBlue]

That's why I think the forgone conclusion that the B1G will be semi-pro is misguided. I think players in the P5 should be considered employees or earn money relative to the size of the TV contract, but I'm less on board if it means academic standards should be harmed. I think the all of the conferences outside of the SEC think this way too.

Big picture? I think most of the P5 should keep student athletes, join together to negotiate one TV deal and split it up between everyone and work out an equitable payment structure and stringent rules around NIL deals; a governing body with teeth. Would we be in it? I don't know. But the sport should be national, with NE teams if it wants the most eyeballs.

It's not that outlandish:
OSU AD: Let football belong to CFP, not NCAA

The biggest problem is the SEC/B1G greed machine.

How would having NE teams other than PSU add eyeballs? Northeasterners are passionate about the NFL, the NBA, MLB, and the NHL - not CFB. Syracuse's main value is in hoops. BC has no value.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Yeah, that's not how it went down.

I'm not sure why you are interested in rewriting history, but whatever.

The UNC fan is going to "fansplain" it to us.

 

[WoadBlue]

Yeah, that's not how it went down.

I'm not sure why you are interested in rewriting history, but whatever.

Really? So we added 3 at once? We never played a year with 11 members? Boeheim and other SU people never spoke openly for staying in the BE during that time?

 

[orange79]

Really? So we added 3 at once? We never played a year with 11 members? Boeheim and other SU people never spoke openly for staying in the BE during that time?

No. Not the 3 at once. Don't be dense. The "Syracuse took itself out by talking up the BE. BC got it by default." garbage. Totally false.

We were there. We were told we would be there by the ACC powers. Trust me on this one.

Then the Virginia state government got involved.

Fredo got nothing "by default". They begged, pleaded, cajoled, cried, and otherwise humiliated themselves to get the bid, all the while swearing to the BE they were there for the long run.

Please don't try to sell us revisionist history. We know exactly what happened. We've lived it for 20 years. And posters on this site who are in a position to know, know.

 

[Willy75]

Really? So we added 3 at once? We never played a year with 11 members? Boeheim and other SU people never spoke openly for staying in the BE during that time?

Virginia state politics put Tech in over SU, after which the SU invite went away (first expansion). SU was ready to join notwithstanding JB’s attachment to Big East basketball. SU, unlike UConn, proceeded diplomatically after the rejection and was rewarded with an invite in the second expansion round.
BC football was actually pretty good when they first joined the ACC. Last year in the Big East they would have gone to the Fiesta Bowl had SU not trounced them in their last game in Chestnut Hill.

 

[rrlbees]

No. Not the 3 at once. Don't be dense. The "Syracuse took itself out by talking up the BE. BC got it by default." garbage. Totally false.

We were there. We were told we would be there by the ACC powers. Trust me on this one.

Then the Virginia state government got involved.

Fredo got nothing "by default". They begged, pleaded, cajoled, cried, and otherwise humiliated themselves to get the bid, all the while swearing to the BE they were there for the long run.

Please don't try to sell us revisionist history. We know exactly what happened. We've lived it for 20 years. And posters on this site who are in a position to know, know.

I posted step by step as the process was unfolding. It was ours every step of the way until Warner decided to speak with UVa and make some threats.

 

[baggerbob]

The first ACC grab was suppose to be Miami BC and Syracuse. Politics being what it was at the time, VT took SU place.

Jake let BC take our place, if he had told BC we're going we were in.