ACC Meetings ...

[Chip]

Was listening to Chris Spatola on the radio this morning. He said the feeling from the ACC meetings is that ESPN has no reason to come back to the table, short of ND joining the conference.

Looks like the league will be stuck with this TV deal until 2036. It's the Carrier Dome naming rights of TV deals. Seemed great at first, then you realize that forever is a long time.

 

[Orijinal]

Was listening to Chris Spatola on the radio this morning. He said the feeling from the ACC meetings is that ESPN has no reason to come back to the table, short of ND joining the conference.

Looks like the league will be stuck with this TV deal until 2036. It's the Carrier Dome naming rights of TV deals. Seemed great at first, then you realize that forever is a long time.

My goodness

 

[elimunelson]

Ultimately Syracuse/BC/Pitt joining the ACC will be looked at as short sighted on a 50 year horizon. It put a few more bucks in our coffers, our basketball has suffered, our football has flatlined essentially, and our geographical connective tissue with our regional rivals has been fractured.

By 2036 who knows what SU Sports will look like. I think we all know this but are afraid to admit it. The move to the ACC was the right move if everything is determined by money. Decisions solely decided by money never work out in the long run.

 

[orange79]

Ultimately Syracuse/BC/Pitt joining the ACC will be looked at as short sighted on a 50 year horizon. It put a few more bucks in our coffers, our basketball has suffered, our football has flatlined essentially, and our geographical connective tissue with our regional rivals has been fractured.

By 2036 who knows what SU Sports will look like. I think we all know this but are afraid to admit it. The move to the ACC was the right move if everything is determined by money. Decisions solely decided by money never work out in the long run.

If we had not joined the ACC, we'd be UConn. Struggling to pay for football and the rest of our AD.

Totally disagree with your post. It was exactly the right move.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Ultimately Syracuse/BC/Pitt joining the ACC will be looked at as short sighted on a 50 year horizon. It put a few more bucks in our coffers, our basketball has suffered, our football has flatlined essentially, and our geographical connective tissue with our regional rivals has been fractured.

By 2036 who knows what SU Sports will look like. I think we all know this but are afraid to admit it. The move to the ACC was the right move if everything is determined by money. Decisions solely decided by money never work out in the long run.

On the other hand, we could be UConn.

A bankrupt athletic department that was forced to throw football under the bus to salvage Men's and Women's hoops.

If you don't have money, you don't get a long run.

 

[elimunelson]

If we had not joined the ACC, we'd be UConn. Struggling to pay for football and the rest of our AD.

Totally disagree with your post. It was exactly the right move.

We wouldn't be UConn in football. That's foolish to suggest. We have a football program with tradition and history. The football program may have gone to more bowl games absent the ACC. Certainly the money infusion was good. I'm not suggesting otherwise. But it came with a price. What that price is no one knows on a 10 year horizon.

Basketball IMO has been definitely impacted negatively. Villanova is NOT in the ACC. They seem to be quite ok.

My entire point is football is going away as we know it anyway in the northeast. How it reconfigures is a million dollar question

 

[TheCusian]

We wouldn't be UConn in football. That's foolish to suggest. We have a football program with tradition and history. The football program may have gone to more bowl games absent the ACC. Certainly the money infusion was good. I'm not suggesting otherwise. But it came with a price. What that price is no one knows on a 10 year horizon.

Basketball IMO has been definitely impacted negatively. Villanova is NOT in the ACC. They seem to be quite ok.

My entire point is football is going away as we know it anyway in the northeast. How it reconfigures is a million dollar question

What has the price been?

The decline in basketball is more attributable to recruiting changes, money distribution to the SEC/B1G than regional interest. Villanova is an outlier.

The decline in NE football has more to do with regional interest at the high school level and population shifts.

Football is following the eyeballs. The sport is more popular in the south and Midwest.

The ACC move has been good for us when compared to the wasteland we’d be in otherwise.

The scheduling shift will help interest in football.

 

[Bayside44]

We wouldn't be UConn in football. That's foolish to suggest. We have a football program with tradition and history. The football program may have gone to more bowl games absent the ACC. Certainly the money infusion was good. I'm not suggesting otherwise. But it came with a price. What that price is no one knows on a 10 year horizon.

Basketball IMO has been definitely impacted negatively. Villanova is NOT in the ACC. They seem to be quite ok.

My entire point is football is going away as we know it anyway in the northeast. How it reconfigures is a million dollar question

We would've played in the AAC and it would've been flat out awful. The whole upper deck would be tarp.

We've gone to a FF and a couple of Sweet 16s in the ACC. Our hoops issues aren't because we aren't playing Marquette.

 

[elimunelson]

We would've played in the AAC and it would've been flat out awful. The whole upper deck would be tarp.

We've gone to a FF and a couple of Sweet 16s in the ACC. Our hoops issues aren't because we aren't playing Marquette.

what the ACC has shown me is if we stink at football, very few people are going to the games. The ACC hasn't created an artificial interest in football. If someone has numbers to suggest otherwise i'm all ears.

We have stunk at football for decades now on a long trajectory analysis. Some blips of success. ACC hasn't done anything to prop us up because we are overmatched in the ACC in football. The numbers don't lie. We are undwritten by the ACC with the television money. That's great, it hasn't impacted the results at all.

I think basketball has been fine. That wasn't my point. I think broadly we would have been as good had we remained in the Big East.

I guess my point is football to me has been flat out awful in the ACC and would have been potentially mediocre in a mediocre conference.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

what the ACC has shown me is if we stink at football, very few people are going to the games. The ACC hasn't created an artificial interest in football. If someone has numbers to suggest otherwise i'm all ears.

We have stunk at football for decades now on a long trajectory analysis. Some blips of success. ACC hasn't done anything to prop us up because we are overmatched in the ACC in football. The numbers don't lie. We are undwritten by the ACC with the television money. That's great, it hasn't impacted the results at all.

I think basketball has been fine. That wasn't my point. I think broadly we would have been as good had we remained in the Big East.

I guess my point is football to me has been flat out awful in the ACC and would have been potentially mediocre in a mediocre conference.

Football would be so much worse. There wouldn't be money to spend on coaches or facilities. Fan interest and attendance would be even lower. We never have 2018 and never beat Clemson. Would our 2019 and 2021 teams have made a Bowl in the AAC? Sure, but the kids on the team wouldn't have ever come to SU had we been in the AAC. That is a lot of lost talent. At best we would have been SMUesque the last 10 years. I am not trading that for our time in the ACC.

 

[Bayside44]

what the ACC has shown me is if we stink at football, very few people are going to the games. The ACC hasn't created an artificial interest in football. If someone has numbers to suggest otherwise i'm all ears.

We have stunk at football for decades now on a long trajectory analysis. Some blips of success. ACC hasn't done anything to prop us up because we are overmatched in the ACC in football. The numbers don't lie. We are undwritten by the ACC with the television money. That's great, it hasn't impacted the results at all.

I think basketball has been fine. That wasn't my point. I think broadly we would have been as good had we remained in the Big East.

I guess my point is football to me has been flat out awful in the ACC and would have been potentially mediocre in a mediocre conference.

We had a 10-3 season in the ACC, which is historically great for us. We had the second biggest upset of all time in conference. COVID year aside we put a competitive product out there.

We also had a dummy as an AD and a completely overmatched coordinator running the show for a while so results were what they were.

Conference aside, our location is bereft of football talent. Putting 18K in the Dome to play Memphis and Houston in football (and losing) while rolling out Buffalo's roster would've been the end.

 

[WoadBlue]

It seems to me that the two camps on whether Syracuse should have joined the ACC agree on two things: that support for Major College football in the northeast is very poor (per capita the worst in the nation, and it is much worse than that when you take PSU out of the equation), and that there is not nearly enough football talent in the northeast to staff even 3 consistently competitive P5 teams.

For me, the question then is: did the ACC in having added BC and Syracuse (Pittsburgh is so close to the OH border that it could manage to become seen as midwestern) long term add more weight that eventually it could not carry?

Wake, I have to admit, is a whole lot of weight to carry. Because while NC is much better for football than New England and NY, Wake is the smallest P5 school, and it is the 4th league member in NC. NC is not TX. nor FL, nor even GA or OH. NC does not produce enough talent, nor enough passionate CFB fans, to support 4 P5 teams.

Those are major ACC problems that mean our TV deal sucks.

 

[upperdeck]

really we have just not won enough of the close games to tip the tide.. Been more than competitive in games, but lack the dude to make the key plays.. if we were 50/50 in the tight games we would be ok right now. not great but OK.

 

[elimunelson]

We had a 10-3 season in the ACC, which is historically great for us. We had the second biggest upset of all time in conference. COVID year aside we put a competitive product out there.

We also had a dummy as an AD and a completely overmatched coordinator running the show for a while so results were what they were.

Conference aside, our location is bereft of football talent. Putting 18K in the Dome to play Memphis and Houston in football (and losing) while rolling out Buffalo's roster would've been the end.

It was a great season. One in 20 years has been "great". The ACC has pushed us down more than propped us up. That's my opinion. I know many will say "that's a crazy opinion, look at all the good". i'm just realistic about what the good is minus having more money in the AD. To me it's an industrial complex issue where you have a huge AD budget, huge coaching budgets, huge recruiting budgets and the results have moved incrementally.

To me looking at the entire move to the ACC. Makes sense financially and from the "well i don't want to be left behind" perspective. Those are going to be reasons that ultimately don't work out for the university on a very very very long time line.

Again, I expect very few likes from this perspective. I just don't see what we gained having 30k fans at the dome for NC State vs 25k fans at the Dome for Cincy or UConn yearly. The school is not aligned with peers across the board in the ACC.

 

[UpstateSM]

We wouldn't be UConn in football. That's foolish to suggest. We have a football program with tradition and history.

what the ACC has shown me is if we stink at football, very few people are going to the games.

Makes sense if you don't think about it

 

[elimunelson]

My guess: The ACC doesn't exist in 2030ish (if not 2025) if the GoR is like a bond losing value by the year. Ultimately all these divisional machinations will be irrelevant because our ship will be in another port, hopefully as i was told, with the likes of ND, Stanford and other higher learning vessels

 

[CousCuse]

My guess: The ACC doesn't exist in 2030ish (if not 2025) if the GoR is like a bond losing value by the year. Ultimately all these divisional machinations will be irrelevant because our ship will be in another port, hopefully as i was told, with the likes of ND, Stanford and other higher learning vessels

Some teams in the ACC are going to eat the GOR and jump ship if they can join the SEC or B1G. I'm sure there are lawyers and accountants calculating it right now.

 

[elimunelson]

Some teams in the ACC are going to eat the GOR and jump ship if they can join the SEC or B1G. I'm sure there are lawyers and accountants calculating it right now.

This is all inevitable at this point.

 

[Bayside44]

It was a great season. One in 20 years has been "great". The ACC has pushed us down more than propped us up. That's my opinion. I know many will say "that's a crazy opinion, look at all the good". i'm just realistic about what the good is minus having more money in the AD. To me it's an industrial complex issue where you have a huge AD budget, huge coaching budgets, huge recruiting budgets and the results have moved incrementally.

To me looking at the entire move to the ACC. Makes sense financially and from the "well i don't want to be left behind" perspective. Those are going to be reasons that ultimately don't work out for the university on a very very very long time line.

Again, I expect very few likes from this perspective. I just don't see what we gained having 30k fans at the dome for NC State vs 25k fans at the Dome for Cincy or UConn yearly. The school is not aligned with peers across the board in the ACC.

The ACC is loaded with private schools along I95 where we recruit students and have alumni and refugee CNYers, and publics that more exclusive than most privates. So compare that to the AAC or whatever the Big East now is...

If no Big East lax dies.

So we are in a conference where a large swath of fans can see us close to their homes, and where students and future alumni come from.

Puttering along verses the alternative isn't normally ideal but in this case...

 

[syrBossHogg]

Ultimately Syracuse/BC/Pitt joining the ACC will be looked at as short sighted on a 50 year horizon. It put a few more bucks in our coffers, our basketball has suffered, our football has flatlined essentially, and our geographical connective tissue with our regional rivals has been fractured.

By 2036 who knows what SU Sports will look like. I think we all know this but are afraid to admit it. The move to the ACC was the right move if everything is determined by money. Decisions solely decided by money never work out in the long run.

Basketball has suffered because the top guy doesn't put in the effort to recruit anymore.
Football has suffered because of lack of money and poor coaching hires

 

[GoSU96]

what the ACC has shown me is if we stink at football, very few people are going to the games. The ACC hasn't created an artificial interest in football. If someone has numbers to suggest otherwise i'm all ears.

We have stunk at football for decades now on a long trajectory analysis. Some blips of success. ACC hasn't done anything to prop us up because we are overmatched in the ACC in football. The numbers don't lie. We are undwritten by the ACC with the television money. That's great, it hasn't impacted the results at all.

I think basketball has been fine. That wasn't my point. I think broadly we would have been as good had we remained in the Big East.

I guess my point is football to me has been flat out awful in the ACC and would have been potentially mediocre in a mediocre conference.

SU’s not overmatched, the issues have been depth, in particular end of the season, and lack of top end playmakers to close out games. Those issues are being addressed. Staff upgrades, facilities, and the roster 50-85 is improving.

Just using last year as an example they lost three straight games when they had the ball and opportunity to close and win.

Robinson, Shafers last two years, and Covid the team was awful. Under P, Marrone, and Dino, the team has been competitive, and not just a couple of blips. Before the last three games last year the team was playing as well statistically as it had at anytime the last twenty years.

 

[All4SU]

It was a great season. One in 20 years has been "great". The ACC has pushed us down more than propped us up. That's my opinion. I know many will say "that's a crazy opinion, look at all the good". i'm just realistic about what the good is minus having more money in the AD. To me it's an industrial complex issue where you have a huge AD budget, huge coaching budgets, huge recruiting budgets and the results have moved incrementally.

To me looking at the entire move to the ACC. Makes sense financially and from the "well i don't want to be left behind" perspective. Those are going to be reasons that ultimately don't work out for the university on a very very very long time line.

Again, I expect very few likes from this perspective. I just don't see what we gained having 30k fans at the dome for NC State vs 25k fans at the Dome for Cincy or UConn yearly. The school is not aligned with peers across the board in the ACC.

I don’t think the ACC pushed us down. It was other factors, including luck. The NCAA sanctions…some bad coaching hires…a good coach leaving…some rule changes…

 

[Chip]

Ultimately Syracuse/BC/Pitt joining the ACC will be looked at as short sighted on a 50 year horizon. It put a few more bucks in our coffers, our basketball has suffered, our football has flatlined essentially, and our geographical connective tissue with our regional rivals has been fractured.

By 2036 who knows what SU Sports will look like. I think we all know this but are afraid to admit it. The move to the ACC was the right move if everything is determined by money. Decisions solely decided by money never work out in the long run.

The only way it could possibly looked at as short sighted is if there was a real chance for us to join the Big 10 at that time. That's it.

But even at the time, Syracuse (the University) is a better fit in the ACC. Syracuse (the City) is a better fit in the Big 10.

Otherwise, what do you think we should have done about football, stayed AAC?

 

[elimunelson]

The only way it could possibly looked at as short sighted is if there was a real chance for us to join the Big 10 at that time. That's it.

But even at the time, Syracuse (the University) is a better fit in the ACC. Syracuse (the City) is a better fit in the Big 10.

Otherwise, what do you think we should have done about football, stayed AAC?

I agree with the ACC Decision in 2011. I am not against the university thinking money first and foremost. Just trying to say, badly mind you, that when we look back at the era of 2011-2027 (or whenever the ACC is split up), we will wonder what Syracuse gained from that period. our academic ranking has basically gone backwards (even being aligned with better schools), football has been stagnate and basketball isn't what it was in the hay days of the big east.

There's real reasons for all of this but ultimately the scoreboard shows the ACC hasn't moved the Syracuse operation higher than it was in 2011. I think we'll have a better sense in 2040 when we are in a different conference. If it's worse, i'll eat crow.

 

[elimunelson]

SU’s not overmatched, the issues have been depth, in particular end of the season, and lack of top end playmakers to close out games. Those issues are being addressed. Staff upgrades, facilities, and the roster 50-85 is improving.

Just using last year as an example they lost three straight games when they had the ball and opportunity to close and win.

Robinson, Shafers last two years, and Covid the team was awful. Under P, Marrone, and Dino, the team has been competitive, and not just a couple of blips. Before the last three games last year the team was playing as well statistically as it had at anytime the last twenty years.

Go, I love ya but we are a top 3 bottom team in the ACC. I'm a P believer like you are. We are nowhere where were under his tutelage in the 90s. The excuses are just compounding now and you wonder if it's just Syracuse not the specifics that have led to the downturn.

I hope we win 8-10 games this year but my guess is we'll be 4-6 wins at most. There will be a new set of excuses. The ACC is hard for Syracuse. Simple as that.