ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[FloridaCuse]

Agree that many have said Stanford does not want to go to the Big 12 and may not if the ACC says no. May stay independent, at least for a few years to see if they can get into the B1G. Question for everyone - if the ACC doesn't get the 12 votes, and all 4 Pac12 schools that are left (or even 3) go to the Big12, how much hatred do the 11 ACC schools who want to expand have for FSU, Clemson & NC and how will that be manifested going forward? In other words -- is the ACC then just in hospice care waiting to expire? (Some will say they are now.) [Thanks for the comments. I'll hang up and listen.]

 

[Orangefan1]

We are so screwed because of four selfish self centered arrogant universities

 

[pokercuse08]

Question for everyone - if the ACC doesn't get the 12 votes, and all 4 Pac12 schools that are left (or even 3) go to the Big12, how much hatred do the 11 ACC schools who want to expand have for FSU, Clemson & NC and how will that be manifested going forward? In other words -- is the ACC then just in hospice care waiting to expire? (Some will say they are now.) [Thanks for the comments. I'll hang up and listen.]

At that point the ACC's last chance of survival would be a timeline where the GOR holds strong and the average payouts on the other conferences, especially the Big 12's, drop when they are up for renewal due to what's going on with streaming vs. cable. Then the ACC would be in pretty good shape until the GOR runs out in 2036, which may allow it to raid the Big 12. But at the end of the day, it would still get picked apart once it had to go to the same payout model as everyone else vis a vis streaming.

So yeah, I'd say it's pretty clear there will either be two or three power conferences when the dust settles. If the Big 12 absorbs the rest of the Pac 12, it's almost guaranteed to be the third power conference (if there is one) and pick off the rest of the ACC school leftovers.

Basically the B1G/SEC would grab FSU, Clemson, UNC, UVA and probably NC State, Miami and Louisville. Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, and Duke would probably be on the big boy/Big 12 bubble. BC and Wake would probably be left for dead.

In a world where FSU, Clemson, and UNC screw the entire conference, the conference is highly incentivized to make sure they never get a single close call in a single game officiated by conference refs. But the question then becomes where the loyalties in the conference office actually lie.

 

[orange44]

We are so screwed because of four selfish self centered arrogant universities

Could not agree more!!

 

[djorange1989]

We are so screwed because of four selfish self centered arrogant universities

Yep and that’s just what those four universities want

 

[pokercuse08]

We are so screwed because of four selfish self centered arrogant universities

I sure hope this isn't how the decision makers in the conference are thinking about this. This is naked capitalism in sports, like it or not (I hate it personally), it is what it is. The only way to not end up flat on the road with tread marks down your back is to expect every single person involved in every single decision to act in their best financial interest, and to do the same yourself.

The sooner the ACC/Syracuse decision makers and to some extent alums and fans (because they can apply pressure to decision makers) accept that this is the reality, the better. Everyone has to be self-centered, or they will lose. Everyone has to be selfish, or they will get trampled. The arrogance of FSU in particular is off-putting, but it's hard to fault them for trying to get every dollar they can - I hope 'Cuse will be doing the same, albeit with at least the veneer of classiness.

On a slight tangent, people also need to realize that when the dust settles, the schools with the most money will have the best opportunities to recruit the best athletes and hire the best coaches. All of that will flow towards the money. Some people seem to be fine with ending up in the second tier of college football when the dust settles, but I'm not sure they realize that almost every player they ever recruit who ends up good enough to transfer to the power conferences will do it, and every single coach who has enough success to get an offer from the power conferences will get it. The second tier will be a feeder system to the top tier.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Report: Cal, Stanford Could Land with Big 12 Under New Scenario If ACC Talks Fail

The Big 12 is attempting to make a late play for California and Stanford as the two schools continue to negotiate a potential move to the ACC. Per Michael…

www.google.com

There was a sf chronicle article just pushed out on this too but behind a paywall

I was able to read the SF Chronicle article via a link on Twitter. 4 points worth mentioning: 1) Stanford is now interested in the B12 if the ACC offer does not happen, 2) there has been pushback from ACC current members for dividing the extra TV revenue by success, 3) mid next week is Stanford & Cal's informal deadline for a decision by the ACC after which they ramp up discussions with the B12, and 4) if the do talk further to the B12 they try to bring in Oregon St. & Washington St. also.

 

[Orangefan1]

I was able to read the SF Chronicle article via a link on Twitter. 4 points worth mentioning: 1) Stanford is now interested in the B12 if the ACC offer does not happen, 2) there has been pushback from ACC current members for dividing the extra TV revenue by success, 3) mid next week is Stanford & Cal's informal deadline for a decision by the ACC after which they ramp up discussions with the B12, and 4) if the do talk further to the B12 they try to bring in Oregon St. & Washington St. also.

If a decision hasn’t been made by now it’s not happening because the ACC is completely mismanaged and never organized. Other than the GOR which I wish was never there to allow everything to implode and Syracuse can figure out what’s what from there

 

[Orangezoo]

I was able to read the SF Chronicle article via a link on Twitter. 4 points worth mentioning: 1) Stanford is now interested in the B12 if the ACC offer does not happen, 2) there has been pushback from ACC current members for dividing the extra TV revenue by success, 3) mid next week is Stanford & Cal's informal deadline for a decision by the ACC after which they ramp up discussions with the B12, and 4) if the do talk further to the B12 they try to bring in Oregon St. & Washington St. also.

I hope FSU and UNC falls flat on their face if they are the driving force here. Would serve them right. 5-7 or worse the both of them.

 

[pokercuse08]

Other than the GOR which I wish was never there to allow everything to implode and Syracuse can figure out what’s what from there

The longer it takes to implode, the better for us. The more the revenue is flowing from streaming and fanbase size instead of cable households, the better for us. We punch above our school size in brand and fanbase, and the NY market has already been delivered to the B1G in terms of cable households.

 

[Orangefan1]

The longer it takes to implode, the better for us. The more the revenue is flowing from streaming and fanbase size instead of cable households, the better for us. We punch above our school size in brand and fanbase, and the NY market has already been delivered to the B1G in terms of cable households.

Actually I don’t agree the longer this goes the worse it is for us because if the BIG12 passes the ACC in revenue then we will be stuck with a watered down ACC and be left out without big time football. Nothing about that is good. At this point vote out and see what happens why wait ten years to implode and not be in one of the super 3 conferences? The other teams are looking for themselves and not worried why should we wait it out and ride anyones coattails?

 

[pokercuse08]

Actually I don’t agree the longer this goes the worse it is for us because if the BIG12 passes the ACC in revenue then we will be stuck with a watered down ACC and be left out without big time football.

Well, there will not be three super conferences in all likelihood. There will be two. There may be a third power conference with access to the playoffs. The longer the B1G and SEC wait to finish off their expansion, the better Syracuse's chances of getting into the B1G.

In terms of the ACC and Big 12 fighting to be the #3 conference and retain some access to the playoffs, the ACC's time to strike is probably 2028-2031. So they need to get Stanford, Cal, and SMU into the fold now and then position themselves for 2028-2031 when the Big 12 will be at its weakest.

The only way things implode right now is if the ACC goes the way of the Pac-12. There are no Big 12 schools the SEC and B1G would want right now, only ACC schools. We don't want them picking the conference apart now.

 

[Hoo's That]

Grover Cleveland - Ma Ma where's my pa?

Going to the White House. Ha. Ha. Ha.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Well, there will not be three super conferences in all likelihood. There will be two. There may be a third power conference with access to the playoffs. The longer the B1G and SEC wait to finish off their expansion, the better Syracuse's chances of getting into the B1G.

In terms of the ACC and Big 12 fighting to be the #3 conference and retain some access to the playoffs, the ACC's time to strike is probably 2028-2031. So they need to get Stanford, Cal, and SMU into the fold now and then position themselves for 2028-2031 when the Big 12 will be at its weakest.

The only way things implode right now is if the ACC goes the way of the Pac-12. There are no Big 12 schools the SEC and B1G would want right now, only ACC schools. We don't want them picking the conference apart now.

Or . . . into the SEC if Syracuse area native & SU degree holder Commissioner Greg Sankey convinces his members there will only be TWO Power conferences and they should expand into the northeast to not leave it to the B1G.

 

[WoadBlue]

Agree that many have said Stanford does not want to go to the Big 12 and may not if the ACC says no. May stay independent, at least for a few years to see if they can get into the B1G. Question for everyone - if the ACC doesn't get the 12 votes, and all 4 Pac12 schools that are left (or even 3) go to the Big12, how much hatred do the 11 ACC schools who want to expand have for FSU, Clemson & NC and how will that be manifested going forward? In other words -- is the ACC then just in hospice care waiting to expire? (Some will say they are now.) [Thanks for the comments. I'll hang up and listen.]

Every move that the ACC can make is fraught with evil for the ACC. That is so because their whole mess is about two leagues being supported by massive globalist companies to destroy D1 football, which will allow those comonais to op0wn all that is left of Major College Football. So it is about corporate rating to destroy and then take pieces of what is destroyed in order to maker the corporation richer.

Very clearly both Fox and ESPN were ready to totally destroy the Pac and helped nudge everything into place to do that. The same people who predicted that was coming also have been saying that the plans to destroy the ACC were prepared to follow not long after the Pac is destroyed. That would mean that any movie the ACC makes now is expected by those people (BT, SEC, ESPN, Fox) to mean the ACC starts wobbling wildly, eventually to be picked apart. And while adding Stanford, Cal, and SMU could mean a nice influx of cash for a few years it is far even a good sign that almost everybody will be happy with ACC money in 2030. Or adding those 3 could mean that FSU is locked into high gear leaving, which leads to Clemson getting every bot as open about leaving ASAP, which leads to UNC and UVA deciding that they cannot afford to be left behind. And at that point the ACC could lose up to even 9 or so members to SEC or BT.

Just 2 Major conferences left. What the ACC does with Cal, Stanford, and SMU has virtually 0 bearing on the ultimate outcome. Only ND becoming a full football member of the ACC can truly change the eventual outcome of the plans of the SEC/BT/ESPN/Fox.

 

[WoadBlue]

Or . . . into the SEC if Syracuse area native & SU degree holder Commissioner Greg Sankey convinces his members there will only be TWO Power conferences and they should expand into the northeast to not leave it to the B1G.

Sankey is a rat of the worst sort. He has 0 concern for Syracuse or the northeast or anything else not directly related to his job now. He would destroy anything or steal and sell anything to get that job done for his employer.

 

[Cusefan69]

UNC, FSU, Clemson and NC State are effin the whole ACC over. All 4 of those schools and their administrators are garbage.

 

[baggerbob]

Well, there will not be three super conferences in all likelihood. There will be two. There may be a third power conference with access to the playoffs. The longer the B1G and SEC wait to finish off their expansion, the better Syracuse's chances of getting into the B1G.

In terms of the ACC and Big 12 fighting to be the #3 conference and retain some access to the playoffs, the ACC's time to strike is probably 2028-2031. So they need to get Stanford, Cal, and SMU into the fold now and then position themselves for 2028-2031 when the Big 12 will be at its weakest.

The only way things implode right now is if the ACC goes the way of the Pac-12. There are no Big 12 schools the SEC and B1G would want right now, only ACC schools. We don't want them picking the conference apart now.

The other 11 should just tell Florida St, Clemson, North Carolina and NC St, that they won't play any games against them.
Just take a forfeit against any of those teams.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Why does this ACC expansion really matter for SU? IMO we have a better chance of getting into the SEC than getting left out of the B12. And both of those are really small. So why do we care if the ACC wins the #3 conference war with the B12?

Sure I would prefer a national ACC made up of Top 100 schools over the BigFanken 12. But it isn't a big deal either way.

You know who this impacts the most in the ACC? Duke and Wake. Which is ironic given that 1/2 the Carolina mafia is screwing over the other half of the Carolina mafia. I bet those two schools never thought it would be UNC and NC State that would be the ones to kill off their programs.

 

[pokercuse08]

Why does this ACC expansion really matter for SU? IMO we have a better chance of getting into the SEC than getting left out of the B12. And both of those are really small. So why do we care if the ACC wins the #3 conference war with the B12?

For Syracuse there are three big questions:

1. Do we get into the B1G? We're a bubble team in that regard with a ton of variables.

2. Are there ultimately going to be two power conferences with access to the playoffs, or three?

3. If there are three, are we in #3?

We can ignore #1 right now for the purposes of this discussion. Chances are if the Big 12 is the #3 conference, it will not end up having access to the playoff. The Big 12's road to being #3 is having the SEC/B1G raid the ACC, then scooping up the leftovers that they didn't want. In that scenario, there are no real roadblocks to the B1G and SEC cutting everyone else out and saying only the two super conferences play for national titles now.

If the ACC is the #3 conference it may, key word MAY, retain enough important programs to retain access as a #3 conference.

So as a Syracuse fan, my hope is that we get into the B1G, and that if not the ACC is #3 and is a strong enough #3 to retain access. As such, ACC expansion matters to me and so does SU positioning itself to get an invite to the B1G.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

For Syracuse there are three big questions:

1. Do we get into the B1G? We're a bubble team in that regard with a ton of variables.

2. Are there ultimately going to be two power conferences with access to the playoffs, or three?

3. If there are three, are we in #3?

We can ignore #1 right now for the purposes of this discussion. Chances are if the Big 12 is the #3 conference, it will not end up having access to the playoff. The Big 12's road to being #3 is having the SEC/B1G raid the ACC, then scooping up the leftovers that they didn't want. In that scenario, there are no real roadblocks to the B1G and SEC cutting everyone else out and saying only the two super conferences play for national titles now.

If the ACC is the #3 conference it may, key word MAY, retain enough important programs to retain access as a #3 conference.

So as a Syracuse fan, my hope is that we get into the B1G, and that if not the ACC is #3 and is a strong enough #3 to retain access. As such, ACC expansion matters to me and so does SU positioning itself to get an invite to the B1G.

The only way the B12 gets left out of the playoffs is if the SEC and B18 create their own FB sub division. In which case it does not matter whether the ACC or B12 wins the #3 crown. There is no significant advantage for either the ACC or B12 in winning that title. So again, why do we care?

The only real impact of the ACC expanding now is the possibility of having: Level 1 (SEC and B18), Level 2 (B12 and ACC), Level 3 (G5). That option will still exist if the ACC expands now. I would actually prefer that over having one of the ACC or B12 getting sent home PAC'd.

But at the end of the day none of this will have a huge impact on SU. Getting left out of the B18 and SEC is the big deal, not ACC vs B12.

 

[dasher]

If a decision hasn’t been made by now it’s not happening because the ACC is completely mismanaged and never organized. Other than the GOR which I wish was never there to allow everything to implode and Syracuse can figure out what’s what from there

Once again, the GOR is saving our @ss. A lot can happen over the next number of years. Right now, it would not be good for us to be on the outside looking in.

 

[sutomcat]

FYI, when the B12 just added those 4 new schools, they did not get the pro rata deal that the ACC has. This is because it is not in their contract. ESPN and Fox did not offer the same amount for those schools as the existing members of the B12 are getting. The B12 solved this problem by asking everyone in the conference to take a less money at least until the next contact comes up. Which was agreed to very reluctantly.

You can bet that Stanford and Cal would get less than the corner 4 just added. Which would result in another hair cut for B12 members, who already were locked in to make less than the ACC and keep seeing that money get reduced. So adding Cal and Stanford is not something the B12 is going to be super excited about doing. In fact, I don’t think they will agree to do it.

I think this is a leverage play. Hopefully it scares the Obstructional Four, who may panic seeing a lot of potential income evaporating due to their greed and incompetence.

 

[Toga]

FYI, when the B12 just added those 4 new schools, they did not get the pro rata deal that the ACC has. This is because it is not in their contract. ESPN and Fox did not offer the same amount for those schools as the existing members of the B12 are getting. The B12 solved this problem by asking everyone in the conference to take a less money at least until the next contact comes up. Which was agreed to very reluctantly.

You can bet that Stanford and Cal would get less than the corner 4 just added. Which would result in another hair cut for B12 members, who already were locked in to make less than the ACC and keep seeing that money get reduced. So adding Cal and Stanford is not something the B12 is going to be super excited about doing. In fact, I don’t think they will agree to do it.

I think this is a leverage play. Hopefully it scares the Obstructional Four, who may panic seeing a lot of potential income evaporating due to their greed and incompetence.

Interesting. Did not know that.

 

[Orangefan1]

If we go by percentages of people think ACC or BIG12 what would people on here predict