ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[Hoo's That]

There is such a huge separation now between the B12 and the G5 schools. If the B12 went to 16 and killed off the MWC as well then it would be even worse. Really need the P5 to break away into a 5x16 division. Then you can have a meaningful playoff. And the regular season would be better. No more OOC G5/FCS games. Instead you see more P5 matchups. TV wins. Fans win. School$ win.

Since the Texas and Oklahoma move to the SEC, I've come to believe that "Play for Pay" is not as far-fetched or as far off as it may have been before. I think it is more likely that schools will opt out of joining these massive constructs of 60-some-odd teams by refusing to play P4P teams than the construct happens. The comedy (for fans of the non-participants) will come from watching fans of Bama, Ohio State, etc., have to deal with 3 or 4 losses in a year because their schedules aren't padded with Vanderbilts and Northwesterns anymore.

 

[orangedave]

Since the Texas and Oklahoma move to the SEC, I've come to believe that "Play for Pay" is not as far-fetched or as far off as it may have been before. I think it is more likely that schools will opt out of joining these massive constructs of 60-some-odd teams by refusing to play P4P teams than the construct happens. The comedy (for fans of the non-participants) will come from watching fans of Bama, Ohio State, etc., have to deal with 3 or 4 losses in a year because their schedules aren't padded with Vanderbilts and Northwesterns anymore.

Ours isn't padded with Albany, Liberty, Ohio etc?

 

[Hoo's That]

Ours isn't padded with Albany, Liberty, Ohio etc?

Yes, they are and we scream when we end up with a losing record. When you've come to think that 9 wins is a "terrible" season, what's going to happen to your psyche when you regularly only win 5 or 6?

 

[orangecuse]

Yes, they are and we scream when we end up with a losing record. When you've come to think that 9 wins is a "terrible" season, what's going to happen to your psyche when you regularly only win 5 or 6?

Who knows for sure? However, look at the NFL, it is and for the most part strives to be a league where all of its teams are pretty balanced. Most reasonable people realize, that in the NFL, there isn't much difference generally from a team that goes 10-6 vs. 6-10 when you pay close attention, etc.

Therefore, IMO, I can easily see those fans recognizing that in that instance, the league they are in is the cream of the crop so to speak in college football. And, after some mental adjustment, as long as they get enough wins qualifying for whichever way that league sets up its post season structure, etc., they'll know they can still play for a championship. In the end, I think that'll trump some inflated, on the surface, etc. seemingly impressive annual record.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yes, they are and we scream when we end up with a losing record. When you've come to think that 9 wins is a "terrible" season, what's going to happen to your psyche when you regularly only win 5 or 6?

I think we all would adjust especially if you remove the 6 W Bowl requirement. If we are playing 12 P5 games a year then 5-7 isn't the worst thing in the world. Heck a competitive 4-8 isn't that bad.

If the P5 went to 16 teams each and broke away from FBS then you could have the Top 12 in each conference be Bowl eligible despite record. So 3-7 in ACC play could get you into a Bowl. Fans want to win but they also want the games to matter. If you are 3-8 (2-7) going into the last game of the season it could be a huge game.

For top teams they will also adjust. Losing 2 games now is a big deal because it eliminates you from the conference championship and the playoff. But if 9-3 gets you into the SEC CG do you think Bama fans will care? All that matters is making it. If a loss doesn't eliminate you it isn't the end of the world.

 

[tep624]

There is such a huge separation now between the B12 and the G5 schools. If the B12 went to 16 and killed off the MWC as well then it would be even worse. Really need the P5 to break away into a 5x16 division. Then you can have a meaningful playoff. And the regular season would be better. No more OOC G5/FCS games. Instead you see more P5 matchups. TV wins. Fans win. School$ win.

The G5 is quickly becoming FCS heavy. I haven’t done a count but I’d have to guess that 20% of the G5 now were FCS programs in the last 20 years that transitioned.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The G5 is quickly becoming FCS heavy. I haven’t done a count but I’d have to guess that 20% of the G5 now were FCS programs in the last 20 years that transitioned.

Since the 1st SEC expansion 27 schools have joined FBS. Three more are coming from the latest expansion. So there will be 29 "new" schools out of 64 G5/Indy teams (UCF will be P5). Yet people are ok giving these leagues multiple auto bids?

Ideally I would like to see a breakaway with 5 conferences of 18 teams. Each conference has 3 divisions of 6 and has a 4 team conference championship (3 division winners and one at large). The playoff is the 5 conference champs and 2 at larges. Have 36 Bowls so the Top 15 in each conference make a Bowl plus 4 more at larges. Which means you have 79 of 90 schools make the post season.

It would also be nice if:

SEC/ACC were ABC/ESPN for all sports. 3 on ABC, 3 on ESPN, 3 on SECN, 3 on ACCN, 3 on ESPN3, 3 on RSN.

B1G was all FOX for all sports. 3 on FOX, 3 on FS1, 3 on B1GN.

P12 was one of CBS/NBC for all sports. 2 on the main network (3:30 and 7). 3 on sports network (3:30, 7, 10:30), 3 on P12N.

B12 was the leftover network for all sports. 3 on main, 3 on sports, 3 on new B12N.

So the main network has games at 12, 3:30, 7. The cable network the same. The conference network the same. Any leftover games are RSN or streaming.

 

[FloridaFan]

MAC is the best conference in terms of staying at least somewhat true to what college sports should be. Staying relatively local with teams (Umass and Uconn for football helps making Buffalo more connected as well as adding KY and TN school that are just a days drive away on the interstate or less.) as well as not just chasing media money. Good on them

 

[HRE Otto IV]

MAC is the best conference in terms of staying at least somewhat true to what college sports should be. Staying relatively local with teams (Umass and Uconn for football helps making Buffalo more connected as well as adding KY and TN school that are just a days drive away on the interstate or less.) as well as not just chasing media money. Good on them

Adding WKU and MTSU is not keeping true. They are actually far away. Adding UMass and UConn would be even worse.

 

[All4SU]

Adding WKU and MTSU is not keeping true. They are actually far away. Adding UMass and UConn would be even worse.

View attachment 210275

Contiguous states. Certainly reasonable.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Contiguous states. Certainly reasonable.

WKU is not close to the rest of the MAC. Tennessee is even further. Don't see many bus rides to either. NIU and UB were the old outliers and are both closer for most schools. The other 10 schools are all close together.

Athletically I think adding WKU/MTSU and even UMass/UConn makes sense as all are similar schools. I am surprised they didn't try for Marshall. Wonder if there is bad blood.

 

[CousCuse]

WKU is not close to the rest of the MAC. Tennessee is even further. Don't see many bus rides to either. NIU and UB were the old outliers and are both closer for most schools. The other 10 schools are all close together.

Athletically I think adding WKU/MTSU and even UMass/UConn makes sense as all are similar schools. I am surprised they didn't try for Marshall. Wonder if there is bad blood.

MTSU and WKU are both in the Nashville media market, which is a very important market nowadays.

 

[TexanMark]

MTSU and WKU are both in the Nashville media market, which is a very important market nowadays.

True but Nashville is an SEC town. Adding two outlier schools to grab 4% of the Nashville market doesn't do too much for TV $$. However, I'm sure Nashville is a draw for MAC grads.

Overall, I do think it is a solid add over grabbing some of the other schools.

 

[CousCuse]

True but Nashville is an SEC town. Adding two outlier schools to grab 4% of the Nashville market doesn't do too much for TV $$. However, I'm sure Nashville is a draw for MAC grads.

Overall, I do think it is a solid add over grabbing some of the other schools.

It may be an SEC town, but I have to believe that MTSU and WKU have huge alumni bases there.

 

[FloridaFan]

It may be an SEC town, but I have to believe that MTSU and WKU have huge alumni bases there.

MTSU does for sure

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[TheCusian]

MTSU and WKU are both in the Nashville media market, which is a very important market nowadays.

TV markets are tied to cable. Cable is still trending down - It’s brand and fan support that matters more than TV markets - or will very soon.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

CUSA looks like it will survive as a 9 team league. Middle Tennessee is being very shortsighted not joining the MAC.

That will leave only Notre Dame, Army, UMass, and UConn as Independents.

I wonder if the A10 would consider starting a football conference. If it made cents then maybe they can grab Army, UMass, UConn and then convince Navy, Temple, and Buffalo to join. Six is enough for football and gives them 16 in BBall. Buffalo can't be making much in the MAC and have outgrown the conference. Navy is only in the AAC for football, so they can't be making a lot. Temple I am sure rather be in the A10 than AAC. But what would the $ difference be? Having only 5 conference games would allow for many P5 OOC games which helps with TV money.

After establishing as an FBS football conference they can see if any of the FCS A10 schools want to jump up (Rhode Island, Fordham, Davidson, Dayton, Richmond) and/or invite Nova.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Nothing determined yet for Western Kentucky. From what I’ve read they favor the MAC, but the MAC won’t take them as a stand alone 13th. I wonder if UMASS will take this golden opportunity to rethink their position on staying in the A10 for hoops (and Olympic sports). It looks like the MAC is their best bet to avoid the inevitable death sentence that comes with football independence for all but ND and the service academies.

 

[CousCuse]

TV markets are tied to cable. Cable is still trending down - It’s brand and fan support that matters more than TV markets - or will very soon.

Then use the term media market.

 

[TheCusian]

Then use the term media market.

Big difference between “Nashville cable market” and fans of WKU as a customer base.

 

[texascpa]

CUSA looks like it will survive as a 9 team league. Middle Tennessee is being very shortsighted not joining the MAC.

That will leave only Notre Dame, Army, UMass, and UConn as Independents.

I wonder if the A10 would consider starting a football conference. If it made cents then maybe they can grab Army, UMass, UConn and then convince Navy, Temple, and Buffalo to join. Six is enough for football and gives them 16 in BBall. Buffalo can't be making much in the MAC and have outgrown the conference. Navy is only in the AAC for football, so they can't be making a lot. Temple I am sure rather be in the A10 than AAC. But what would the $ difference be? Having only 5 conference games would allow for many P5 OOC games which helps with TV money.

After establishing as an FBS football conference they can see if any of the FCS A10 schools want to jump up (Rhode Island, Fordham, Davidson, Dayton, Richmond) and/or invite Nova.

Just listened to the AD at MTSU on SiriusXM. Apparently, there is a $3M exit fee from ConfUSA and they would not expect to break even on that for 7 years. Additionally, Conf USA leadership has expressed a new desire to elevate athletics in the league. Lastly, his contention is that they are a Southern team and recruit in the South. Moving to a Midwest-centric league didn't make much sense from a recruiting standpoint. Personally, it didn't sound short-sighted.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Just listened to the AD at MTSU on SiriusXM. Apparently, there is a $3M exit fee from ConfUSA and they would not expect to break even on that for 7 years. Additionally, Conf USA leadership has expressed a new desire to elevate athletics in the league. Lastly, his contention is that they are a Southern team and recruit in the South. Moving to a Midwest-centric league didn't make much sense from a recruiting standpoint. Personally, it didn't sound short-sighted.

That is spin. Worrying about the exit fee is short term. Long term which conference offers more stability? Which offers more money? They are choosing to stay in the worst conference. If there is another expansion then it trickles down to CUSA losing members. Then what?

CUSA leadership wanting to elevate athletics is like the AAC saying they are a P6 conference. It is cute but it not happening.

Are kids from neighboring states not going to choose to play there because their road games are in the Midwest? Are those kids from the Southeast really going to prefer playing in Texas over Ohio? They don't mind being in the worse athletic conference? CUSA doesn't have teams in NC, SC, MS, AR, and is down to 1 team in FL. For a kid from VA the MAC is closer than most CUSA schools.

Look at the travel costs. NMSU, UTEP, SHSU, FIU are really far away. LA Tech, Liberty are far away. Jacksonville State is the only school closer than the six Ohio MAC schools. Plus NIU, Ball State are close enough too. The three Michigan schools and Buffalo are hikes.

Edit

if I am the MAC I accept WKU and then ask MTSU again. If they say no still, then go grab a nearby FCS school.

 

[SU68]

CUSA looks like it will survive as a 9 team league. Middle Tennessee is being very shortsighted not joining the MAC.

That will leave only Notre Dame, Army, UMass, and UConn as Independents.

I wonder if the A10 would consider starting a football conference. If it made cents then maybe they can grab Army, UMass, UConn and then convince Navy, Temple, and Buffalo to join. Six is enough for football and gives them 16 in BBall. Buffalo can't be making much in the MAC and have outgrown the conference. Navy is only in the AAC for football, so they can't be making a lot. Temple I am sure rather be in the A10 than AAC. But what would the $ difference be? Having only 5 conference games would allow for many P5 OOC games which helps with TV money.

After establishing as an FBS football conference they can see if any of the FCS A10 schools want to jump up (Rhode Island, Fordham, Davidson, Dayton, Richmond) and/or invite Nova.

I think that UMass and UConn are more co-dependents.

 

[CousCuse]

Big difference between “Nashville cable market” and fans of WKU as a customer base.

Previously the metric was cable boxes, the new metric is like streaming subscriptions or something like that. It doesn't matter if it goes thru cable lines or internet or antennas, it's all content and it is all worth money and cost money to view.