Alex Kline

[IthaCuse]

Odd you point out rankings in football, but ignore them in basketball.

I just said that in basketball we tend to talk about guys rankings in a high school context, but not their actual transfer portal ranking. 247 had our transfer portal ranking at 36th going into this season, going into last season it was ranked 52nd. It got a little better, but not insanely so. Coming into this season we returned only Starling and Freeman. Going into last year we brought back Starling, Bell, McLeod, Cuffe and Westry. So last year we returned a little more, this year the portal rank was slightly higher, and the result is a couple more wins this year than last year. Everything aligns with the notion that the talent level this year was NOT significantly above last year.

Now, I will also say that these portal classes and recruiting classes should be leading us to records more in the 22-9 or 21-10 range in the regular season, not the 14-17, 15-16 or 16-15 we appear to be heading towards. So there is a clear argument that Red should be getting more out of these guys, and I never denied that. What there is no clear argument for is this notion that we have much better talent this season than we did last year. Same coaching staff, similar portal class ranking, and ultimately a very similar result. They are MARGINALLY better. That is why our record will likely be only 1.5-3.5 games better than last year.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I just said that in basketball we tend to talk about guys rankings in a high school context, but not their actual transfer portal ranking. 247 had our transfer portal ranking at 36th going into this season, going into last season it was ranked 52nd. It got a little better, but not insanely so. Coming into this season we returned only Starling and Freeman. Going into last year we brought back Starling, Bell, McLeod, Cuffe and Westry. So last year we returned a little more, this year the portal rank was slightly higher, and the result is a couple more wins this year than last year. Everything aligns with the notion that the talent level this year was NOT significantly above last year.

Now, I will also say that these portal classes and recruiting classes should be leading us to records more in the 22-9 or 21-10 range in the regular season, not the 14-17, 15-16 or 16-15 we appear to be heading towards. So there is a clear argument that Red should be getting more out of these guys, and I never denied that. What there is no clear argument for is this notion that we have much better talent this season than we did last year. Same coaching staff, similar portal class ranking, and ultimately a very similar result. They are MARGINALLY better. That is why our record will likely be only 1.5-3.5 games better than last year.

You cherry picked the worst ranking we had specifically from one site on transfers. We were 20th overall. The rest is just agenda drivel by you.

 

[Cusefan0307]

FFS we didn't have Freeman for most of last year. Nate Kingz is significantly better than anyone we rolled out at SF last year. William Kyle is significantly better than Lampkin. White and Betsey are significantly better than anyone we brought off the bench last year. The backcourt is a mess, but that's on the coaches. THEY wanted those two players.

 

[Scooch]

You can post lists of two groups of names of failed players on teams that were either sub .500 or marginally above .500 all you want, it changes nothing. We are currently 10th in the ACC, last year we were 14th in the ACC, which is likely about where we end up again this year. Last year we went 14-19, this year we will likely go 15-17. Red coached BOTH teams, the same group of assistant coached BOTH teams!

The only argument you can make which actually accords with the data is that both last years team and this years team were woefully poorly coached, and a good coach gets both to far greater heights. But this idea that we had terrible talent last year and great talent this year is simply refuted by the result. Coaching hasn't changed, Red didn't get worse, the similar result is due to similar coaching combined with similar talent.

People on this board have a funny habit of valuing the "collective wisdom" of the insiders over their own lying eyes and very clear data. It's like how we have the most loaded QB room we've ever had every single season in football, or how every low rated recruit is a gem, or how we conveniently point to the high school rankings of the transfers we got who were much lower rated in the context of the portal. Then we get disappointed and after the fact everyone starts saying the same thing as the people who were taking flak for pointing it out ahead of time.

In your record comparison you’re ignoring the strength of our competition. This year’s ACC is better — some might say substantially better — than last year.

Having better talent but a similar, or worse, record as a prior season happens *all the time* in sports. It’s going to happen next season to my Patriots. We’re going to improve our roster yet win fewer games than we did this past season. And it’ll be because our schedule is going to be immensely more challenging.

Look, if you think the talent is the same between last year and this year then there’s nothing I can say to convince you.

 

[Scooch]

FFS we didn't have Freeman for most of last year. Nate Kingz is significantly better than anyone we rolled out at SF last year. William Kyle is significantly better than Lampkin. White and Betsey are significantly better than anyone we brought off the bench last year. The backcourt is a mess, but that's on the coaches. THEY wanted those two players.

The backcourt may be a mess, but George is still much better than Carlos. It’s not even debatable.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The backcourt may be a mess, but George is still much better than Carlos. It’s not even debatable.

Agreed. I’m trying to give SOME benefit of doubt. An announcer quoted an ACC coach who stated we had top 5 talent in the league at one point this season. That’s really all that needs to be said about how bad we are underperforming.

 

[Scooch]

Agreed. I’m trying to give SOME benefit of doubt. An announcer quoted an ACC coach who stated we had top 5 talent in the league at one point this season. That’s really all that needs to be said about how bad we are underperforming.

Yup. As I’ve posted before, ultimately it doesn’t matter. Either (a) we have ample talent that Red has squandered en route to another non-Tourney season, or (b) the talent isn’t good enough and Red, once again, poorly built a roster and we’re en route to another non-Tourney season.

A or B, he still gets fired.

 

[Orangezoo]

Agreed. I’m trying to give SOME benefit of doubt. An announcer quoted an ACC coach who stated we had top 5 talent in the league at one point this season. That’s really all that needs to be said about how bad we are underperforming.

Early on in the year it seemed that they may be trying to adjust the role of JJ and then have George carry a higher usage PG role and that faded quickly to letting JJ do what he’s always done and then little to no effort with getting George to grow as a player. If anything this staff set George back a year or stalled his development even.

He had some flaws that needed to be addressed and they never were. Had he chosen UNC who wanted him badly he probably would have made a lot more progress.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Do u know which guys

I have a guess one is Emmanuel Stephen, sophomore center at UNLV.

 

[MikeSU02]

This is simply bonkers.

Last year through the portal we added Eddie Lampkin, Jyare Davis, Jaquan Carlos, Lucas Taylor. (NOTE: Alex Kline had nothing to do with these people playing basketball at Syracuse).

This year we added Will Kyle, Nait George, Nate Kingz, Tyler Betsey.

If you think the latter group is only "marginally" more talented than the former then I think your hoops evaluation skills are poor.

It's not Kingz's and Betsey's fault that Red has absolutely no clue how to design an offense that takes advantage of their offensive skills. I agree that George has been disappointing, however being handed the ball and told "go do something" hasn't been a particularly effective scheme.

This team plays dumb and ragged because the coaching is abysmal. One doesn't even need to squint to see the skill and athleticism they have. And it's miles better than last year's abomination.

And, Eddie Lampkin came in out of shape and was hurt for a lot of the year.

JC was not able to compete on this level. He had a PER under 10 and his TS% was 48.8% and couldn't guard a cardboard cutout and played almost 30 mpg. Crazy.

 

[oldpinepoint]

It was insane and this roster should have been easily good enough to make the tourney this year. They all agreed upon that as a staff, but they also felt they could save the money til next year when the staff would all be back next year because they thought they were going to win with this roster. What a year

Jfc what a dumpster fire

 

[OttoinGrotto]

And, Eddie Lampkin came in out of shape and was hurt for a lot of the year.

JC was not able to compete on this level. He had a PER under 10 and his TS% was 48.8% and couldn't guard a cardboard cutout and played almost 30 mpg. Crazy.

Lampkin was a decent basketball player, he was just completely the wrong fit on that roster.

Which wasn't helped by Carlos not being up for starter pg minutes.

Taylor and Davis probably would have been pretty good bench guys on better rosters overall.

 

[DoctahLexus]

And, Eddie Lampkin came in out of shape and was hurt for a lot of the year.

JC was not able to compete on this level. He had a PER under 10 and his TS% was 48.8% and couldn't guard a cardboard cutout and played almost 30 mpg. Crazy.

Actually he was just hurt at the beginning of last year. He did not "come in out of shape". Not at all a good fit for the roster but he had no issues with effort.

 

[MikeSU02]

Actually he was just hurt at the beginning of last year. He did not "come in out of shape". Not at all a good fit for the roster but he had no issues with effort.

We signed an injured player?

 

[DoctahLexus]

We signed an injured player?

He had a back brace on in our very first game. We obviously did not sign an injured player. Probably aggravated it in preseason practices. His effort was never an issue. Just not a good fit for the team, which you were right about.

 

[pearl31]

All of it adds up to astonishing incompetence by the head coach.

 

[IthaCuse]

You cherry picked the worst ranking we had specifically from one site on transfers. We were 20th overall. The rest is just agenda drivel by you.

Cherry picked? 247 is the biggest recruiting site in college sports. It would be like saying citing Rivals 10 years ago was cherry picking. Look, you guys can say whatever you want, but when historians look back on the Autry era they’ll see marginal improvement between the two seasons. We got two guys who got substantial playing time at P4 schools in the portal and a bunch of guys who sat on the bench.

Accusing me of being agenda driven is rich. Wildhack just went on the radio and told everyone that the NIL isn’t sustainable for Syracuse, and that’s part of what drove him to retire. But keep believing things are just fine and we have plenty of money to compete.

 

[Fly Rodder]

What there is no clear argument for is this notion that we have much better talent this season than we did last year. Same coaching staff, similar portal class ranking, and ultimately a very similar result. They are MARGINALLY better.

What are you talking about?
Last year's ranks vs this year's
Torvik: 109 / 61
KPom: 115 / 68
Miya: 106 / 65
NET: 134 / 68
BBRef: 104 / 68

By every metric, SU is performing significantly better than last season. So it's either a talent improvement or coaching improvement. If you want to argue that the coaching staff is better this season, be my guest. You'll be wrong, but you can try.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I guess the highest profile candidates have their own version of Kline.

The GM isn't an assistant coach role at any college program AFAIK. They work for the AD to support the coaching staff. They also aren't the equivalent of a pro sports GM.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Cherry picked? 247 is the biggest recruiting site in college sports. It would be like saying citing Rivals 10 years ago was cherry picking. Look, you guys can say whatever you want, but when historians look back on the Autry era they’ll see marginal improvement between the two seasons. We got two guys who got substantial playing time at P4 schools in the portal and a bunch of guys who sat on the bench.

Accusing me of being agenda driven is rich. Wildhack just went on the radio and told everyone that the NIL isn’t sustainable for Syracuse, and that’s part of what drove him to retire. But keep believing things are just fine and we have plenty of money to compete.

We also were 20th overall in the same site and you’re putting words in WH’s mouth. He definitely does not like how the transfer portal is setup.

 

[Scooch]

But keep believing things are just fine and we have plenty of money to compete.

There we go, the beloved NIL excuse.

We had plenty of money to assemble a roster for this season. You can speak to the challenges of the future, that’s fine. But we had the dough this year.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

I'll always have a soft spot for Lampkin for introducing me to Cajun pasta. The demise of Syracuse basketball DOES have a silver lining, people.