Another stupid question by Fat Mike

[Knicks411]

Yeah I've never understood that line of thinking either. I'm one of the small minority that still doesn't consider Brady to be the GOAT, but even I'd admit 5-2 is clearly better than 4-0, 5-1, etc (though I'd argue that win-loss records should be a very small factor in the discussion at all).

Like Jordan would be a worse player if he had beaten the bad boy pistons in 90 and then lost to the Blazers in the finals?

I've never been a big fan of Brady but the guy has just kept doing it at such a high level, I think I have to go with him.

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah I've never understood that line of thinking either. I'm one of the small minority that still doesn't consider Brady to be the GOAT, but even I'd admit 5-2 is clearly better than 4-0, 5-1, etc (though I'd argue that win-loss records should be a very small factor in the discussion at all).

Who you got as the best Elway? Marino?

 

[Knicks411]

Who you got as the best Elway? Marino?

I think Peyton still has a decent argument. But like i said, Brady's sustained excellence this late in his career probably pushes him over the edge for me.

 

[Alsacs]

I think Peyton still has a decent argument. But like i said, Brady's sustained excellence this late in his career probably pushes him over the edge for me.

Peyton is a top 5 guy for me but Brady just has the better of him.
Manning's stats are impressive and I think Brady and Brees will close on them.
Manning did a good job winning that second ring that made his career playoff record 14-13. He finished above .500 because of those 3 wins.

Peyton's black mark for me is he has 9 one and dones in the playoffs.
Brady has 2 one and dones.
Montana had 4 one and dones.

Peyton went to 4 SBs that helps him but I just see Brady as having a few more years to even the stats out and has more rings.

Manning's teams in his prime always spent more money on offensive weapons while Brady's spent for an all around team. That I believe accounts for some stats difference.

Both were deadly in the comeback game.

 

[Knicks411]

A pretty strong argument for Peyton is how badly the Colts collapsed the year he was gone

 

[Alsacs]

A pretty strong argument for Peyton is how badly the Colts collapsed the year he was gone

I can respect that argument but I think speaks more to the organization than player.
I believe if Tom Brady doesn't tear his ACL in 2008 that was a 14-2 or 15-1 team. The Pats organization is all about spending on depth. They want their bottom of the roster to be good players. That team went 11-5 and Belichick changed the offense with Cassel.

The Pats don't spend and load up on premier talent because it drains the salary cap.

The Colts loaded up their cap with Freeney/Mathis/Sanders/Wayne.

Without Manning they had washed up Kerry Collins and Curtis Painter.

 

[Melancer46]

Who you got as the best Elway? Marino?

I'd probably go with Peyton for now, but I think it'll be Rodgers by the time he's done. I think Rodgers' peak is greater than any other QB. For me, individidual accolades > team winning when it comes to football; one individual player just doesn't have enough impact on winning for me to make it a large contributor. So Peyton having 5 MVPs compared to Brady's 2 is a pretty huge difference.

 

[Alsacs]

I'd probably go with Peyton for now, but I think it'll be Rodgers by the time he's done. I think Rodgers' peak is greater than any other QB. For me, individidual accolades > team winning when it comes to football; one individual player just doesn't have enough impact on winning for me to make it a large contributor. So Peyton having 5 MVPs compared to Brady's 2 is a pretty huge difference.

So MVPs 5-2(it should be 3 this year but Ryan was given the award because Goodell fraudulently suspended Brady 4 times) is pretty significant. Brady has finished 2nd in MVP voting the last 2 years as a 38 year old and 39'year old.

Super Bowl titles Brady 5 Manning 2
Super Bowl MVPs Brady 4 Manning 1
Alltime wins Brady 208 Manning 200
Manning has more TDs and passing yards. Brady will catch him.

Look at Manning's season as a 39 year old QB 10 games 9 TD passes and an NFL leading 17 INT.
Brady's season as a 39 year old. 12 games 28 TDs 2 INT.

I personally don't think Peyton used HGH after his neck surgeries. That story was buried because Peyton is loved though. Once Brady passes Peyton's stats I don't think he can seen as better as Brady.

Rodgers has better physical skills no doubt and he could be the best down the road.

 

[Melancer46]

So MVPs 5-2(it should be 3 this year but Ryan was given the award because Goodell fraudulently suspended Brady 4 times) is pretty significant. Brady has finished 2nd in MVP voting the last 2 years as a 38 year old and 39'year old.

Super Bowl titles Brady 5 Manning 2
Super Bowl MVPs Brady 4 Manning 1
Alltime wins Brady 208 Manning 200
Manning has more TDs and passing yards. Brady will catch him.

Look at Manning's season as a 39 year old QB 10 games 9 TD passes and an NFL leading 17 INT.
Brady's season as a 39 year old. 12 games 28 TDs 2 INT.

I personally don't think Peyton used HGH after his neck surgeries. That story was buried because Peyton is loved though. Once Brady passes Peyton's stats I don't think he can seen as better as Brady.

Rodgers has better physical skills no doubt and he could be the best down the road.

As I said, I don't factor Super Bowls or wins into much at all, so most of what you said doesn't really change my mind at all.

7 All-Pro 1st team selections for Peyton versus 2 for Brady is also a huge difference for me.

Starting when Brady really became the centerpiece of the Patriots offense (2002) to 2014 (the year before Peyton's final season when he was just a complete shell of himself), I'd say Peyton was better 8 or 9 times. Brady was better 2 or 3 times. And then I excluded two seasons in which one of them missed the whole year (2008 for Brady and 2011 for Peyton).

 

[Knicks411]

So MVPs 5-2(it should be 3 this year but Ryan was given the award because Goodell fraudulently suspended Brady 4 times) is pretty significant. Brady has finished 2nd in MVP voting the last 2 years as a 38 year old and 39'year old.

Super Bowl titles Brady 5 Manning 2
Super Bowl MVPs Brady 4 Manning 1
Alltime wins Brady 208 Manning 200
Manning has more TDs and passing yards. Brady will catch him.

Look at Manning's season as a 39 year old QB 10 games 9 TD passes and an NFL leading 17 INT.
Brady's season as a 39 year old. 12 games 28 TDs 2 INT.

I personally don't think Peyton used HGH after his neck surgeries. That story was buried because Peyton is loved though. Once Brady passes Peyton's stats I don't think he can seen as better as Brady.

Rodgers has better physical skills no doubt and he could be the best down the road.

It's a small part of the argument, but i think Ryan was the deserving MVP regardless of how many games brady played. Brady had an adjusted net yards per pass of 9.3, which is a crazy high number, but ryan was at 10.0; off the charts. Brady in 2007 was at 9.4.

Peyton was awful in his final season; but in his age 37 season the guy set the single season record for yards and TD passes.

Rodgers at his best may be better than anybody, but he needs more time.

 

[Alsacs]

It's a small part of the argument, but i think Ryan was the deserving MVP regardless of how many games brady played. Brady had an adjusted net yards per pass of 9.3, which is a crazy high number, but ryan was at 10.0; off the charts. Brady in 2007 was at 9.4.

Peyton was awful in his final season; but in his age 37 season the guy set the single season record for yards and TD passes.

Rodgers at his best may be better than anybody, but he needs more time.

If Brady plays all 16 he wins MVP.
His team likely goes 15-1. Add 10 TDs and 1 INT if he goes 38 TD 3 INTs and his team is 4 games better than Ryan who went 11-5 was 38 TD 7 INT.

Ryan won because Brady only had 11 wins and missed 4 games and Ryan had better stats.

 

[Alsacs]

As I said, I don't factor Super Bowls or wins into much at all, so most of what you said doesn't really change my mind at all.

7 All-Pro 1st team selections for Peyton versus 2 for Brady is also a huge difference for me.

Starting when Brady really became the centerpiece of the Patriots offense (2002) to 2014 (the year before Peyton's final season when he was just a complete shell of himself), I'd say Peyton was better 8 or 9 times. Brady was better 2 or 3 times. And then I excluded two seasons in which one of them missed the whole year (2008 for Brady and 2011 for Peyton).

So what your saying is Peyton is the greatest regular season QB of alltime.

I am okay with that. If you don't want to factor in postseason the argument isn't close.

 

[Knicks411]

If Brady plays all 16 he wins MVP.
His team likely goes 15-1. Add 10 TDs and 1 INT if he goes 38 TD 3 INTs and his team is 4 games better than Ryan who went 11-5 was 38 TD 7 INT.

Ryan won because Brady only had 11 wins and missed 4 games and Ryan had better stats.

Well I'm just saying I think Ryan would have gotten my vote either way

 

[Alsacs]

Well I'm just saying I think Ryan would have gotten my vote either way

If Brady goes 15-1 adds 10 TDs and 1 INT and finishes 38 TD 3 INT has a net yards per attempt of 9.3 you would have given Matt Ryan who went 11-5 38 TD 7 INT your MVP vote because of a better net yard per attempt?

Your vote to Ryan would have been one of 50.

Brady wins the award if he plays 16 this year. It's just obvious. He got 10 votes this year missing 25% of the season and that was the number one flaw he had.

 

[Knicks411]

If Brady goes 15-1 adds 10 TDs and 1 INT and finishes 38 TD 3 INT has a net yards per attempt of 9.3 you would have given Matt Ryan who went 11-5 38 TD 7 INT your MVP vote because of a better net yard per attempt?

Your vote to Ryan would have been one of 50.

Brady wins the award if he plays 16 this year. It's just obvious. He got 10 votes this year missing 25% of the season and that was the number one flaw he had.

I think so, the guy had one of the all time seasons; I guess it went under the radar, but 10 yards per passing attempt is off the charts. (Am i biased because he helped me to an undefeated fantasy season? maybe)

Fun trivia question; the top 5 single season in that stat includes Rodgers, Peyton, Marino, and Ryan. Want to guess who the fifth guy is? (It's not Brady, 2007 ranks sixth)

 

[Alsacs]

Hell last year in 2015
Brady went 12-4 had 4660 yards 36 TDs 7 INTs 3 rushing TDs

Newton went 15-1 had 3837 yards 35 TDs 10 INTs 10 rushing TDs

Newton won overwhelming because of the 15-1 record.

In 2016 Brady with 4 more games houses Ryan in voting IMO. The 4 missed games were the obvious reason Ryan won.

 

[Alsacs]

I think so, the guy had one of the all time seasons; I guess it went under the radar, but 10 yards per passing attempt is off the charts. (Am i biased because he helped me to an undefeated fantasy season? maybe)

Fun trivia question; the top 5 single season in that stat includes Rodgers, Peyton, Marino, and Ryan. Want to guess who the fifth guy is? (It's not Brady, 2007 ranks sixth)

My guess would be Kurt Warner in 2001.

 

[Knicks411]

My guess would be Kurt Warner in 2001.

Warner's best year in this stat was 99, he's tied for 14th.

Here's a hint; the guy is active, and in the season he did it, he only started 10 games.

 

[Alsacs]

I would guess Nick Foles because Brady broke his 26-2 TD/INT record and that year not sure how many he started but he was a fluke stud that year.

 

[Knicks411]

I would guess Nick Foles because Brady broke his 26-2 TD/INT record and that year not sure how many he started but he was a fluke stud that year.

bingo. Name seems a little out of place

 

[Melancer46]

So what your saying is Peyton is the greatest regular season QB of alltime.

I am okay with that. If you don't want to factor in postseason the argument isn't close.

Yes, but I also don't think Peyton is much worse in the postseason than Brady is.

 

[Alsacs]

Yes, but I also don't think Peyton is much worse in the postseason than Brady is.

Define not much worse?
Wins are all that matter in the postseason.
Manning 14-13 record, 2 SBs 9 times lost his first playoff game. 40 TDs- 25 INTs.
Brady 25-9 record, 5 SBs, 2 times lost his first playoff game. 61 TDs- 30 INTs.

Brady like Derek Jeter pretty much owns every postseason record.

 

[Melancer46]

Define not much worse?
Wins are all that matter in the postseason.
Manning 14-13 record, 2 SBs 9 times lost his first playoff game. 40 TDs- 25 INTs.
Brady 25-9 record, 5 SBs, 2 times lost his first playoff game. 61 TDs- 30 INTs.

Brady like Derek Jeter pretty much owns every postseason record.

Again, I don't think one player plays enough of a role in getting a win to put much weight into their records. Statistically they're basically equivalent. Peyton's AY/A is slightly higher, both turn it over at the same rate, Brady has a slight edge in TD%. Brady's been better, but it's not by all that much and it's not close to enough to make up for the difference in regular season play IMO.

 

[Alsacs]

Again, I don't think one player plays enough of a role in getting a win to put much weight into their records. Statistically they're basically equivalent. Peyton's AY/A is slightly higher, both turn it over at the same rate, Brady has a slight edge in TD%. Brady's been better, but it's not by all that much and it's not close to enough to make up for the difference in regular season play IMO.

I will have to read your NBA all time stuff now to see if your consistent.

I doubt you would find many people who would look at Brady's career and Manning's career and would take Manning.

 

[Melancer46]

I will have to read your NBA all time stuff now to see if your consistent.

I doubt you would find many people who would look at Brady's career and Manning's career and would take Manning.

NBA players have a much larger impact on winning than NFL players do IMO. I still don't rank them based solely on winning or anything, but it's at least a decent factor in the NBA.