Another stupid question by Fat Mike

[Alsacs]

Man the Pats fans are the most cultist in the history of sports.

Yeah we are cult okay buddy whatever atleast you brought an argument. I don't agree with it but atleast you brought one. You give Brady very little credit.

Montana's career was nice but Brady's career which is still ongoing has been better. Brady still has more in his career. If and when he passes Payton Manning's career stats I can't wait for the crap you will spew to undermine it.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I had a detailed response with stuff to prove my point but I realized it doesn't matter. It's all subjective think whatever you want Brady has had a better career than Montana.
Montana was better in the Super Bowl no doubt but he only has 4 titles it used to be the record. That record is no more.

Starr has 5 titles he isn't better than Montana either

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yeah we are cult okay buddy whatever atleast you brought an argument. I don't agree with it but atleast you brought one. You give Brady very little credit.

Montana's career was nice but Brady's career which is still ongoing has been better. Brady still has more in his career. If and when he passes Payton Manning's career stats I can't wait for the crap you will spew to undermine it.

How do I give him little credit? I think he is the 2nd best QB of all time. If he keeps this up a few more years he will pass Montana. The fact that you think there is zero debate just shows your extreme bias.

 

[Alsacs]

Elway as a better QB is a better debate IMO. Because that debate takes Super Bowl titles out of the equation and just becomes a strictly who is better argument.

Montana I don't see as better than Brady. Montana's argument relies on the 4 titles. Brady's 5 passes that.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Elway as a better QB is a better debate IMO. Because that debate takes Super Bowl titles out of the equation and just becomes a strictly who is better argument.

Montana I don't see as better than Brady. Montana's argument relies on the 4 titles. Brady's 5 passes that.

So is Starr better than Brady? If not the why? IMO it is not close Brady is better but by your 5 titles argument?

Title games
Starr 5-1
Brady 5-2

Playoff QB rating
Starr 104.8 (1st all time)
Brady 89.0 (13th all time)

 

[Alsacs]

So is Starr better than Brady? If not the why? IMO it is not close Brady is better but by your 5 titles argument?

Title games
Starr 5-1
Brady 5-2

Playoff QB rating
Starr 104.8 (1st all time)
Brady 89.0 (13th all time)

Pre-AFL/NFL title game titles are the equivalent of conference titles. If you give Starr 5 then give Brady 7.

If Starr played in a more pass oriented offense he could have generated the stats to be in the discussion.

Lombardi had a system as well. If we ding Brady for Belichick's system ding Starr for Lombardi's system.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Kaiser who do Giants give credit for SB 25 Jeff Hostelter or Phil Simms?

Hoss.

And Rightfully so.

Simms deserves more credit for the year than he gets the tbough.

 

[Guinness]

You cannot compare the league today where they have a cap, free agency and rules skewed in favor of the offense to the league of yester-year. Montana had to play against teams that were good on both sides of the ball. Brady is playing against who exactly on defense? Certainly not the Giants of the 80's or the Steelers of the 70's. The cap has watered the league down so much that usually a team is only good in one area and that tends to be offense. None of the teams in the FA time period are all time teams because of it.

I think Brady is far and beyond the best QB in this modern league since FA and the cap but there simply is no way (imo) to compare him cross generationally.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Taking opinion out of the equation, shouldn't the GOAT step up in the BIG game? Especially if you want to give ALL the credit to the QB?

The top 25 percentile in Super Bowl history:

Brady 1 performance (21st) in 7 appearances
Montana 3 performances (2nd, 8th, 14th) in 4 appearances

Again I think Brady is the 2nd best all time. We are nitpicking here but when you are comparing all time greats you need to nitpick in order to separate them.

 

[Alsacs]

Taking opinion out of the equation, shouldn't the GOAT step up in the BIG game? Especially if you want to give ALL the credit to the QB?

The top 25 percentile in Super Bowl history:

Brady 1 performance (21st) in 7 appearances
Montana 3 performances (2nd, 8th, 14th) in 4 appearances

Again I think Brady is the 2nd best all time. We are nitpicking here but when you are comparing all time greats you need to nitpick in order to separate them.

Maybe the big game for Montana was the NFC championship as in the 80s/90s from 84 till 96 the NFC team won the Super Bowl. The NFL didn't have a cap then and the best teams were SF/NYG/Wash/Dallas the SB wasn't two even teams.

The NFL today is more balanced because of FA. I have said if you want to say Montana is the best SB game QB ever it's obvious but Brady has more titles, more wins, and better stats overall.

Montana's resume is not better than Brady's. Brady still has more time to add to his legacy as well. The guy could end up with the most TD passes/ and depending on long Drew Brees could have the passing yards as well.

Montana had an incredible coach just like Brady had more HOF talent on his team than Brady has. Brady has won more than half of his games when his teams has been behind in the 4th quarter.

You don't give Brady any credit. The season he was given elite weapons like Montana had in 2007 he threw for 50 TDs with 8 INT.
Brady for most is the best. However it's all opinion for everyone.

 

[Alsacs]

You cannot compare the league today where they have a cap, free agency and rules skewed in favor of the offense to the league of yester-year. Montana had to play against teams that were good on both sides of the ball. Brady is playing against who exactly on defense? Certainly not the Giants of the 80's or the Steelers of the 70's. The cap has watered the league down so much that usually a team is only good in one area and that tends to be offense. None of the teams in the FA time period are all time teams because of it.

I think Brady is far and beyond the best QB in this modern league since FA and the cap but there simply is no way (imo) to compare him cross generationally.

I will say I think the 2007 Pats could have competed with best teams in the 1980s/1990s the rest of Patriots SB teams had no chance.
The funny thing is that Pats team lost the SB.
That team had a FA era record for any team 9 all-pros.
QB Tom Brady (1st team)
T Matt Light (1st team)
WR Randy Moss (1st team)
CB Asante Samuel (1st team)
OLB Mike Vrabel (1st team)
C Dan Koppen (2nd team)
G Logan Mankins (2nd team)
WR Wes Welker (2nd team)
DT Vince Wilfork (2nd team)

The pressure of being undefeated got to this team. I think it was the best team of the last 20 years.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Didn't the 49er's have like 12 HOF'ers? They have to be one of the most talented teams over a 15 year period in NFL history.

Put Elway or Marino on the Niners and they are just as good. I think there's a big difference in supporting casts.

 

[bpo57]

Didn't the 49er's have like 12 HOF'ers? They have to be one of the most talented teams over a 15 year period in NFL history.

Put Elway or Marino on the Niners and they are just as good. I think there's a big difference in supporting casts.

Steelers of the 70s had a lot of HOFers. Bradshaw, Harris, Swann, Stallworth, Webster, Greene, Greenwood, Ham, Lambert, Blount.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Steelers of the 70s had a lot of HOFers. Bradshaw, Harris, Swann, Stallworth, Webster, Greene, Greenwood, Ham, Lambert, Blount.

The difference being is nobody thinks Bradshaw is the best.

 

[KaiserUEO]

The difference being is nobody thinks Bradshaw is the best.

but he 'called his own plays!!!'

I love it when he gets going on that.

 

[Alsacs]

The difference being is nobody thinks Bradshaw is the best.

1980s 49ers had 2 HOF QBs Montana and Young
HOF WR Jerry Rice
HOF DE Charles Haley
HOF DB Ronnie Lott

The roster of that 1994 SF 49ers team was insanely talented it also had HOFers Deion Sanders, Richard Dent, and Chris Doleman.

Brady has played with
HOF TE Rob Gronkowski
HOF WR 1.5 seasons Randy Moss
Possible HOFers Richard Seymour and Ty Law.

2 deep on those 49ers teams are insane. Those 49ers- vs. Giants/Cowboys/Bears games were stacked with talent.

 

[bpo57]

The difference being is nobody thinks Bradshaw is the best.

Was just commenting on the # of HoFers. Nothing more than that. TB was a very good QB but not on any top ten lists imo.

 

[bpo57]

1980s 49ers had 2 HOF QBs Montana and Young
HOF WR Jerry Rice
HOF DE Charles Haley
HOF DB Ronnie Lott

The roster of that 1994 SF 49ers team was insanely talented it also had HOFers Deion Sanders, Richard Dent, and Chris Doleman.

Brady has played with
HOF TE Rob Gronkowski
HOF WR 1.5 seasons Randy Moss
Possible HOFers Richard Seymour and Ty Law.

2 deep on those 49ers teams are insane. Those 49ers- vs. Giants/Cowboys/Bears games were stacked with talent.

Revis?

 

[Alsacs]

Revis?

One year of Revis as well.
Also Adam Vinateri if another kicker makes it.
The two deeps between the rosters though is no contest towards the SF 49ers.

 

[bpo57]

1980s 49ers had 2 HOF QBs Montana and Young
HOF WR Jerry Rice
HOF DE Charles Haley
HOF DB Ronnie Lott

The roster of that 1994 SF 49ers team was insanely talented it also had HOFers Deion Sanders, Richard Dent, and Chris Doleman.

Brady has played with
HOF TE Rob Gronkowski
HOF WR 1.5 seasons Randy Moss
Possible HOFers Richard Seymour and Ty Law.

2 deep on those 49ers teams are insane. Those 49ers- vs. Giants/Cowboys/Bears games were stacked with talent.

Agree with your overall point but would point out that Dent and Doleman were well past their prime when they landed with SF.

 

[bpo57]

One year of Revis as well.
Also Adam Vinateri if another kicker makes it.
The two deeps between the rosters though is no contest towards the SF 49ers.

AV is a lock for the HoF.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Ty Law should have been in this year over Terrell Davis. The NFL changed the passing rules just because of him so Peyton could win a SB.

 

[Alsacs]

Ty Law should have been in this year over Terrell Davis. The NFL changed the passing rules just because of him so Peyton could win a SB.

He will get in I don't think he is a first ballot guy. Law has the pick 6 in the SB. He was a dominant CB in 2000s. Just like Dawkins and Lynch.

 

[Knicks411]

Fun thread here

I will say I don't get the fascination with finals/super bowl record. Like if Brady had lost an AFC title game instead of a super bowl and was 5-1 in super bowls that would be better?

 

[Melancer46]

Fun thread here

I will say I don't get the fascination with finals/super bowl record. Like if Brady had lost an AFC title game instead of a super bowl and was 5-1 in super bowls that would be better?

Yeah I've never understood that line of thinking either. I'm one of the small minority that still doesn't consider Brady to be the GOAT, but even I'd admit 5-2 is clearly better than 4-0, 5-1, etc (though I'd argue that win-loss records should be a very small factor in the discussion at all).