Big 12 to expand...or not

[CousCuse]

it would obviously be a long shot for the Bulls to pull off, for all the reasons above and more. that said, nothing is impossible including Rutgers having a competent athletic dept. very very highly improbable but not impossible.

I get that its a loooong way from where NY counts, but so are we. I have exactly 0.0 rooting interest for the bulls. I know a few people who went there, but many more who stayed in-state at albany and bing (if they didn't go to a private). when I was looking at colleges, buffalo never ever crossed my mind.

brands can be built, so can winning culture. again, not easy by any means but doable. if UB had NIU's fb track record and a really good BB team (dont even know who would be considered a top MAC bb school) they might have some sports kevorka. I also fully understand they do not.

2 questions:

If there was a public flagship of NYS with competitive athletics and AAU status, would the B1G be interested?

Is there any SUNY school better poised to take a shot at becoming a state flagship than UB, esp athletically?

You go Shark!

 

[HRE Otto IV]

it would obviously be a long shot for the Bulls to pull off, for all the reasons above and more. that said, nothing is impossible including Rutgers having a competent athletic dept. very very highly improbable but not impossible.

I get that its a loooong way from where NY counts, but so are we. I have exactly 0.0 rooting interest for the bulls. I know a few people who went there, but many more who stayed in-state at albany and bing (if they didn't go to a private). when I was looking at colleges, buffalo never ever crossed my mind.

brands can be built, so can winning culture. again, not easy by any means but doable. if UB had NIU's fb track record and a really good BB team (dont even know who would be considered a top MAC bb school) they might have some sports kevorka. I also fully understand they do not.

2 questions:

If there was a public flagship of NYS with competitive athletics and AAU status, would the B1G be interested?

Is there any SUNY school better poised to take a shot at becoming a state flagship than UB, esp athletically?

If upstate NY were important to the B1G they would just offer SU over UB. The only SUNY school that could pull off being NY State's public school is Albany, but they aren't AAU. Students from the NYC area won't ever give a damn about UB and won't to attend classes there. Stony Brook would have a better chance than UB IMO as well. They are AAU, finish off NYC as being B1G, and have a strong overall athletic department.

 

[longtimefan]

it would obviously be a long shot for the Bulls to pull off, for all the reasons above and more. that said, nothing is impossible including Rutgers having a competent athletic dept. very very highly improbable but not impossible.

I get that its a loooong way from where NY counts, but so are we. I have exactly 0.0 rooting interest for the bulls. I know a few people who went there, but many more who stayed in-state at albany and bing (if they didn't go to a private). when I was looking at colleges, buffalo never ever crossed my mind.

brands can be built, so can winning culture. again, not easy by any means but doable. if UB had NIU's fb track record and a really good BB team (dont even know who would be considered a top MAC bb school) they might have some sports kevorka. I also fully understand they do not.

2 questions:

If there was a public flagship of NYS with competitive athletics and AAU status, would the B1G be interested?

Is there any SUNY school better poised to take a shot at becoming a state flagship than UB, esp athletically?

I think Albany, and, especially, Stony Brook would contest that.

 

[Shark58]

If upstate NY were important to the B1G they would just offer SU over UB. The only SUNY school that could pull off being NY State's public school is Albany, but they aren't AAU. Students from the NYC area won't ever give a damn about UB and won't to attend classes there. Stony Brook would have a better chance than UB IMO as well. They are AAU, finish off NYC as being B1G, and have a strong overall athletic department.

I think Albany, and, especially, Stony Brook would contest that.

Albany isn't AAU and I henistly don't know if they are FBS or FCS (dont care enough to google it)

SB def aint playing top division FB

 

[orange79]

Albany isn't AAU and I henistly don't know if they are FBS or FCS (dont care enough to google it)

SB def aint playing top division FB

FCS - they play in the CAA

 

[CIL]

Fug it. You guys go all in on UB to the B10. Enjoy it.

I think Hamilton might get the invite first, but it will be close.

 

[omniorange]

2 questions:

If there was a public flagship of NYS with competitive athletics and AAU status, would the B1G be interested?

Is there any SUNY school better poised to take a shot at becoming a state flagship than UB, esp athletically?

Seems to me that the questions above assume a flagship state school mentality that already exists for most of the states in the U.S., but is non-existent for NY and MA.

Privates are too well embedded in those states. Example, when one thinks of the great universities in the states of Michigan and Ohio, the first reply, especially from residents of those states, are University of Michigan and Ohio State University. That's not what happens when asking about the states of NY and MA. In Massachusetts, the replies will begin with Harvard followed by MIT. Then there is Tufts, Brandeis, Boston University, Boston College, UMass, and more I am probably forgetting that will rank anywhere from 3-10 (not saying which will rank where). The advantage UMass has here is that is indeed the recognized state public institution.

In New York, it's the same thing. There are privates Cornell, Columbia, and NYU and then a group of 4-10 that will likely include University of Rochester, RIT, SU, SUNY Buffalo, and SUNY Stony Brook and others I am forgetting to include (again not saying where any of this group would rank in 4-10). The downside for UB here is that SUNY, for political reasons, prefers its 4 University Centers model. Whether one agrees or disagrees with that approach is immaterial. It is what it is. And since all of the political clout is in Albany, I don't see that changing any time soon.

But let's assume it does, and UB becomes the official premiere public institution in New York like UMass is in Massachusetts. Then you have all the hurdles that Scooch outlined in his post. The state flagship mentality is built over decades within the core heart of the state. And that is on the academic side of the equation. On the athletics side they have an even tougher task since SU has the spot sewn up quite tight.

So I don't see it doing them much good, even if we assume that at some point UB is allowed by the SUNY system to brand itself as the premiere flagship of New York, SUNY actually invests huge in athletics, and then builds an athletic reputation that nearly equals SU's.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[HtownOrange]

Seems to me that the questions above assume a flagship state school mentality that already exists for most of the states in the U.S., but is non-existent for NY and MA.

Privates are too well embedded in those states. Example, when one thinks of the great universities in the states of Michigan and Ohio, the first reply, especially from residents of those states, are University of Michigan and Ohio State University. That's not what happens when asking about the states of NY and MA. In Massachusetts, the replies will begin with Harvard followed by MIT. Then there is Tufts, Brandeis, Boston University, Boston College, UMass, and more I am probably forgetting that will rank anywhere from 3-10 (not saying which will rank where). The advantage UMass has here is that is indeed the recognized state public institution.

In New York, it's the same thing. There are privates Cornell, Columbia, and NYU and then a group of 4-10 that will likely include University of Rochester, RIT, SU, SUNY Buffalo, and SUNY Stony Brook and others I am forgetting to include (again not saying where any of this group would rank in 4-10). The downside for UB here is that SUNY, for political reasons, prefers its 4 University Centers model. Whether one agrees or disagrees with that approach is immaterial. It is what it is. And since all of the political clout is in Albany, I don't see that changing any time soon.

But let's assume it does, and UB becomes the official premiere public institution in New York like UMass is in Massachusetts. Then you have all the hurdles that Scooch outlined in his post. The state flagship mentality is built over decades within the core heart of the state. And that is on the academic side of the equation. On the athletics side they have an even tougher task since SU has the spot sewn up quite tight.

So I don't see it doing them much good, even if we assume that at some point UB is allowed by the SUNY system to brand itself as the premiere flagship of New York, SUNY actually invests huge in athletics, and then builds an athletic reputation that nearly equals SU's.

Cheers,
Neil

Well said , Omni. To add to this mix, the Army has West Point in NY, which delivers on academics, sports and tradition, similar to SU and draws a national following.

To recap:

The best (elite!) academics with Div. 1 sports would be Cornell and Columbia.
The best sports (elite levels at some point in the past) with respectable academics would be Syracuse and Army, possibly Colgate.
The four (possible 5) have history, tradition, money, loyal fans.

The SUNY schools (presumably the ones in the running for an official flagship school) all lack history, tradition and money. The State will not fund elite level athletics because their focus is on education. Who can blame them? Limited budgets, politics, excellent pro teams (especially in the heavily populated NYC area), and essentially two mindsets (upstate v. downstate).

For any SUNY school to carry the banner of NY's flagship U would be a major undertaking and would require some massive sports funding and performance at the highest levels. Can it be done? Possibly. Anytime soon? Nope. Not in my lifetime (sub 50). Would another school have the best option? Yes, Syracuse, Cornell or Columbia (West Point would not want to be tied to the State but their history, tradition, etc, would be hard to overcome anytime soon - imagine a "flagship" being overshadowed by a Military academy, not much of a flagship)

Cornell and Columbia will not be leaving the Ivy League. That leaves Syracuse, a private school, to carry the banner by default.

 

[Trueblue25]

Sat, Sept 5

• vs
• 
• Albany

• W
• 51-14

1-0 (0-0)

Yeah Albany, totally.

UB's 2-0 in it's last 5 years vs. Stony Brook as well. For football.

 

[TheCusian]

Sat, Sept 5 [*]vs [*]http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/399/albany-great-danes [*]Albany [*]W [*]51-14 1-0 (0-0) Yeah Albany, totally. UB's 2-0 in it's last 5 years vs. Stony Brook as well. For football.

Reppin'

 

[longtimefan]

Sat, Sept 5

• vs
• 
• Albany

• W
• 51-14

1-0 (0-0)

Yeah Albany, totally.

UB's 2-0 in it's last 5 years vs. Stony Brook as well. For football.

So--we have zero chance, but the other guys have negative chance?

 

[Ottoble]

it would obviously be a long shot for the Bulls to pull off, for all the reasons above and more. that said, nothing is impossible including Rutgers having a competent athletic dept. very very highly improbable but not impossible.

I get that its a loooong way from where NY counts, but so are we. I have exactly 0.0 rooting interest for the bulls. I know a few people who went there, but many more who stayed in-state at albany and bing (if they didn't go to a private). when I was looking at colleges, buffalo never ever crossed my mind.

brands can be built, so can winning culture. again, not easy by any means but doable. if UB had NIU's fb track record and a really good BB team (dont even know who would be considered a top MAC bb school) they might have some sports kevorka. I also fully understand they do not.

2 questions:

If there was a public flagship of NYS with competitive athletics and AAU status, would the B1G be interested?

Is there any SUNY school better poised to take a shot at becoming a state flagship than UB, esp athletically?

Don't let it happen Shark Don't let them melt your brain. I know you're at UB from prev posts good education that's fine but don't let them talk you into repeating the mantras, that's how you end up in a cult.

 

[TexanMark]

The Buffalo Bills will have to leave town first... nobody in Erie County really follows them save for the occasional bandwagon event like a bowl game or NCAA tournament in hoops.

 

[Trueblue25]

So--we have zero chance, but the other guys have negative chance?

I'll take it.

If we build on the last two year of basketball success, which is entirely possibly looking at last years coaching performance, UB could totally become a a stronger basketball power in the Big East.

Yeah, yeah, easy now guys. Not a power like Cuse. Settle down.

 

[Trueblue25]

The Buffalo Bills will have to leave town first... nobody in Erie County really follows them save for the occasional bandwagon event like a bowl game or NCAA tournament in hoops.

The great infamous Idaho Potato Bowl of '14 really rallied the masses.

 

[longtimefan]

I'll take it.

If we build on the last two year of basketball success, which is entirely possibly looking at last years coaching performance, UB could totally become a a stronger basketball power in the Big East.

Yeah, yeah, easy now guys. Not a power like Cuse. Settle down.

The proposition was that there was a path for SUNY Buffalo to the B1G.

 

[Trueblue25]

The proposition was that there was a path for SUNY Buffalo to the B1G.

In time, maybe. This UB2020 plan could change a lot. It's nonsense to just rule it out. Things could be completely different in 10-20 years.

 

[Shark58]

even more funny than posters getting a bit riled up over how the B1G would have interest in a NY public flagship, despite the major improbability of one ever existing, is the ongoing current discussion going on elsewhere on the web about how if they get passed over by the B12 the best scenario for whoConn involves FB in the MAC

 

[MaxwellCuse]

The closest UB (or UCONN for that matter) is ever likely to get to the B1G is if the MAC decides to become a 16-team Super (Mid Major) Conference.

If UCONN could persuade Temple, UMASS and Marshall to come back -- voila! -- the B1G MAC.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[wvlax]

Per ESPN'S McMurphy
East Carolina says it was informed by Big 12 it is no longer an expansion candidate.

No surprise there, but Big 12 is starting to narrow this expansion process down.

 

[TheCusian]

UCONN reports that they received a small stuffed animal of a husky, smelling like piss and set on fire. The note stapled to it says "HA, HA, HA".

They believe this means they are close to receiving an invite.

 

[orange79]

I knew the Big XII was going through this entire process publicly, but to inform schools they have been axed from the list (and then have them announce it) is, well, strange to say the least.

Make your decision, announce it, and move on. The schools that aren't chosen will eventually find out.

 

[texascpa]

I knew the Big XII was going through this entire process publicly, but to inform schools they have been axed from the list (and then have them announce it) is, well, strange to say the least.

Make your decision, announce it, and move on. The schools that aren't chosen will eventually find out.

ECU announced it, not the Big XII. To me, letting those that didn't make the cut know it as soon as possible allows those schools to move on.

 

[orange79]

ECU announced it, not the Big XII. To me, letting those that didn't make the cut know it as soon as possible allows those schools to move on.

I agree - I wasn't clear when I said "and then have them announce it" - I meant ECU there. Although, if I were the Big XII, I would tell them, and then ask them to keep it quiet.