Big Blow to the NCAA

[Lawrinson14]

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/former-ncaa-athletes-win-video-game-lawsuit-against-ea-6C10809666

 

[upperdeck]

it confuses me how this works.. the players go to colleges.. doing that they give up the rights to promote themselves to make money from their names. the colleges and the ncaa can and do. the magazines and tv then use their names to promote themselves tell stories etc , the NCAA then sells the rights to EA to use the schools/bldgs/mascots/ traditions in a game that tries to emulate the schools and yet they dont have the rights to show the players that if not in the game would not sell and the players who cant be paid sue to get paid?

 

[Lawrinson14]

it confuses me how this works.. the players go to colleges.. doing that they give up the rights to promote themselves to make money from their names. the colleges and the ncaa can and do. the magazines and tv then use their names to promote themselves tell stories etc , the NCAA then sells the rights to EA to use the schools/bldgs/mascots/ traditions in a game that tries to emulate the schools and yet they dont have the rights to show the players that if not in the game would not sell and the players who cant be paid sue to get paid?

Video games are third parties. The schools/NCAA are basically first parties and can use the players likeness to make money. This ruling basically said that third parties can not use collegiate player to make money if they do not pay the players.

 

[upperdeck]

but the players cant get paid due to NCAA policy and the players signed away that right when they get the scholie.. how far back to you pay back to day 1 of the game? and how much do you pay them, the game has hundred of thousands of players and probably only made a few million in profits each year. had they been paid it likely would have been very little or the game would not have been made, they cant really prove damages so what do they actually sue for?

can EA argue that waiting 15 years to ask for money showed that people implied they had the rights to use their likeness? Who decides the money a jury or an arbitrator? I hope the players win and they get $1 a piece for such a stupid lawsuit.

 

[HtownOrange]

From the article itself (I did not read the decision nor the Jim Brown decision): The Court messed up and EA may take this higher. The same court ruled that Jim Brown could NOT sue EA for the same thing in the Pro Sports edition of the game. This is definitely conflicting decisions and from the same court. Either this gets straightened out in the Ninth Circuit or SCOTUS will have to review it (assuming EA presses the issue).

The Ninth Circuit is by far the most overturned Circuit so this is not really a surprise that they could make what appears to be conflicting rulings.

 

[All4SU]

If a player can claim he deserves to be paid for his likeness wile in college, can a college sue a player who gets caught committing crimes, or for violating drug policies, for damaging the reputation of the school?

 

[ImperialOrange]

Video games are third parties. The schools/NCAA are basically first parties and can use the players likeness to make money. This ruling basically said that third parties can not use collegiate player to make money if they do not pay the players.

I haven't played ncaa games since mid 2000's so are they using the players name now? If not then I'm sure it'll be an easy enough work around to make numbers 1 digit off and change a guys skin color so it's not a likeness. It would actually be fun to see which players look like what from year to year. We could have 6'5 230lb Asian qb Rick Ollin at cuse for example.

 

[Orangepace]

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/former-ncaa-athletes-win-video-game-lawsuit-against-ea-6C10809666

The EA Sports agreement expired this year and the NCAA let them know a few weeks ago that they would not be renewed. Have to believe that's the end of likenesses in video games. Poor response, but it is what it is.

Edit: Link> http://espn.go.com/college-football...a-not-renewing-contract-ea-sports-video-games

 

[Moontan]

If a player can claim he deserves to be paid for his likeness wile in college, can a college sue a player who gets caught committing crimes, or for violating drug policies, for damaging the reputation of the school?

Only if the (WfVU) player is wearing school issued garb during commission of the crime.

 

[sutomcat]

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/former-ncaa-athletes-win-video-game-lawsuit-against-ea-6C10809666

I think Sam Keller and Ryan Hart should be paid. EA used their likenesses without their permission and made money off them. It is a gross miscarriage of justice.

As an objective third party arbiter, I award Keller $1 and Hart 15 cents.

 

[HtownOrange]

If a player can claim he deserves to be paid for his likeness wile in college, can a college sue a player who gets caught committing crimes, or for violating drug policies, for damaging the reputation of the school?

I know this is a half serious and half jesting question but it raises a real issue. I would expect to see morals clauses in the agreements to play (commitment letters), and any subsequent likeness contracts, which would open the door to lawsuits against the players for their bad behaviors. This is a can of worms that an 18 year old kid is not really ready to handle.

It is one thing where the school controls usage of the image and can withdraw it. But when the player controls the image, the school would no longer be able to protect their brand image without morals clauses and enforcement actions.

 

[HtownOrange]

I think Sam Keller and Ryan Hart should be paid. EA used their likenesses without their permission and made money off them. It is a gross miscarriage of justice.

As an objective third party arbiter, I award Keller $1 and Hart 15 cents.

Those awards would have to be appealed as being excessive...

 

[SmilinBob]

Out of curiosity, would a network showing games be a third party as well?

 

[HtownOrange]

Out of curiosity, would a network showing games be a third party as well?

From: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Third+Party

third party n. a person who is not a party to a contract or a transaction, but has an involvement (such as a buyer from one of the parties, was present when the agreement was signed, or made an offer that was rejected). The third party normally has no legal rights in the matter, unless the contract was made for the third party's benefit.

 

[Full_Rebar]

The Keller and O'Bannon cases are different, and Keller's isn't the one that the NCAA is worried about. O'Bannon's suit relates to his inclusion in a game after he left UCLA, when his likeness was used on a classic UCLA team. So does the NCAA retain likeness rights beyond the student's enrollment?

The Axe commercials from the hoops tourney with Bryce Drew are another example. Is the NCAA allowed to sell this footage to a 3rd party for financial gain forever?

I believe that Bilas has the right idea. Students shouldn't be paid by the school, but they should be able to market themselves and receive percentages when their likeness is used for profit (including jersey sales).

It's somewhat surprising to me that someone like Worldwide Wes hasn't tried to get a group of high-profile college kids to threaten a boycott- that would make for some tense moments for Emmert, the commissioners, and tv execs.

 

[SmilinBob]

So the networks are?...he says slowly and isn't sure that's what HtO just posted.

 

[Moontan]

I could see in the long run that for jerseys, etc., that players will get 10% of the school's royalties for the time that the player is a student. Those funds would be held in some kind of account payable when the player's eligibility expires. For post-eligibility jersey sales I would expect that percentage to increase a bit (20-25% ?). The former player may even ask for his name/jersey to be withdrawn from future production.

The video games get a bit trickier. If we just consider the starters, that's 24 players on 120 teams which is almost 3,000 players. Perhaps the players can get a licensing fee of 25% of the NCAA's share for that year's version of the game. Deposit a player's share (1/3,000th) into his jersey account and pay out when the player's eligibility expires. I'm sure the players will want a share of EA's profits instead. The question is... do people play the game for just the players? I suspect it's probably more a combination of the school (uniforms, stadium, etc.) along with some of the players. If the players received fees as indicated above it could allow EA to include actual player names directly with the game instead of requiring manual steps.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The EA Sports agreement expired this year and the NCAA let them know a few weeks ago that they would not be renewed. Have to believe that's the end of likenesses in video games. Poor response, but it is what it is.

Edit: Link> http://espn.go.com/college-football...a-not-renewing-contract-ea-sports-video-games

Its not Just pay a freaking royalty.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

 

[upperdeck]

EA signed a new deal this week with the college sports marketing division. The only real difference is not all teams are part of it and they cant use the NCAA logo.

i would argue that this is a team game not a player game. for the most part people are playing their team against all the other teams not really any single player. but if it doesnt really represent their players the game also falls apart. you might as well be playing the mascot challenge game.

it would seem to me that EA had an expectation to use the players based on the schools signing off on the deal thru the NCAA. The schools are the ones really passing on the players likeness and the likeness is really only a rough size color attribute no name.

how is this different than people who draw Celebs and sell the picture/painting? or even the photogs who sell to magazines pictures?

 

[HtownOrange]

So the networks are?...he says slowly and isn't sure that's what HtO just posted.

It depends.on whether the network is the original broadcaster or not. If not then the broadcaster is a third party. As to the original broadcaster, it depends on who the rights holders are and what is included in the agreement. Ex: The NCAA tourney is a property of the NCAA, they hold all the rights. CBS (I think) contracts for the broadcast rights. Game footage would belong to both (assuming a partnership type of deal, like the NFL where the home team and broadcaster hold the rights to game footage jointly). This is a nutshell oversimplification but should give you an idea of how things stand at the present time.


Hope it helps. Any TV specialists please chime in.

 

[upperdeck]

I see the first appeal was denied.. the courts are opening up a can of worms.. EA is using public information and the courts have already ruled that media and others can use that information but now have ruled that Video games are not media. the same courts ruled that the fantasy games could use the players names/stats etc legally. the article on the ESPN site makes it sound like celeb's will start to go after people who use their pictures if this goes forward. At the same time they say the supreme court basically already ruled against .

and yet the same 3 judges ruled against the Jim brown appeal for the same thing?

 

[All4SU]

Just take the damn names off of the p layers in EA sports. Let the owner of the game decide what name to give his players. He will probably name them all after himself anyway.

 

[Alsacs]

The NCAA games have never had the players names it has just had the players numbers and correct information about each player while its not the name of the player it is pretty much their likeness when the game usually puts the hometown information and accurate weight and height as well. I read this decision and all it will do is force EA Sports to settle with the players the NCAA portion of the lawsuit will likely continue and will likely follow the precedent of the Jim Brown decision. EA Sports is going to have to settle or risk losing a LOT more in a trial while the NCAA won't settle or they will likely have thousands of former players add on to the lawsuit and will likely lose the amateur BS rules they currently have now. This decision wasn't shocking to me their wasn't a 1st amendment defense for EA Sports IMO and if the Court granted that it would have saved EA Sports which is a joke.

 

[Orangepace]

Just take the damn names off of the p layers in EA sports. Let the owner of the game decide what name to give his players. He will probably name them all after himself anyway.

No names are used in NCAA games, just numbers.

 

[BlackKnight76]

Worst case seems like they won't make the players accurate, but with the armies of people who edit the rosters (because EA does a pretty shitty job on them) the end game will be largely the same.