Bring on the Dazzler

[GoSU96]

I don't get the impression SU is weighing 2020 against him like some on the board are.

Yep.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Yeah, the “we want a guy who can run the football” is looking like a dumb take this year, should go back to the “we were supposed to play fast” takes

My honest opinion is that some people wanted to fire Dino no matter what and now that the team looks good but are losing by 3 to peer teams they are trying to throw stuff at the wall to build a new narrative “he’s a bad game manager” (because “winning with other people’s talent took a hit”)

How about winning and going to bowl games? Does that count anymore at SU?

The pre-season argument I saw on this board to retain was get to 6 and a bowl. Close losses don't help that especially when you're making important in game decisions that don't work in close games.

Fact is we have finished in the Bottom 4 of the ACC in 5 of his 6 seasons and we are sitting there again this season. If he gets to 6 and we go bowling I'll call it a good season and we move forward. If not, he should be gone imo.

How can you preach accountability to players if the head of your program has no accountability himself. Its so hypocritical.

The PTSD from the Grob years around here is real I guess. Having 1 winning record in 6 years (if thats what we end up with) should be a dismissal in a P5 conference or you're telling on yourself as a program.

 

[Evan Miller]

If you see 2020 as counting that’s on you.

Also, list the HC in the ACC who’ve had a 10 win season and beaten a top 2 ranked team.

Why would 2020 not count? Was it a fake season? It clearly counts. Everyone was impacted by covid. Every single team. Not all finished 1-10. Say Syracuse goes 3-9. That would be 0-8 ACC record. What is 2021 excuse? Injuries, Delta variant? Italian spy satellites?

I mean this is ridiculous. You are what your record says you are!!

 

[EuclidBred]

I don't get the impression SU is weighing 2020 against him like some on the board are.

You're probably right but I have a very hard time just throwing a season out because we were 1-10. If we were 10-1 he probably would have been offered another extension. To me, you can't have it both ways.

Right now, the part I am struggling with most, is the fact that in 2 of the 3 games we lost - Dino's actions personally had an impact on the outcome (Rutgers unsportsmanlike & Wake game management) of the game. The other loss was against 0-4 FSU team that we should have beat (yes yes the refs suck I know).

To me, in year 6, these kinds of things can't happen. Maybe in year 1 or year 2 I'd give him a pass. But in year 6? No chance.

 

[Evan Miller]

I don't get the impression SU is weighing 2020 against him like some on the board are.

If not, shame on AD. 2020 counts.

 

[Evan Miller]

You're probably right but I have a very hard time just throwing a season out because we were 1-10. If we were 10-1 he probably would have been offered another extension. To me, you can't have it both ways.

Right now, the part I am struggling with most, is the fact that in 2 of the 3 games we lost - Dino's actions personally had an impact on the outcome (Rutgers unsportsmanlike & Wake game management) of the game. The other loss was against 0-4 FSU team that we should have beat (yes yes the refs suck I know).

To me, in year 6, these kinds of things can't happen. Maybe in year 1 or year 2 I'd give him a pass. But in year 6? No chance.

Correct...if he went 10-1...none of the posters would say..."2020 does not count!". It is moving the goal posts. Bad record...does not count. Good record...it counts!!! It is total silliness. As you said, can't have it both ways. Most fans understand this.

It counts. The record was 1-10. End of story.

 

[Bayside44]

You're probably right but I have a very hard time just throwing a season out because we were 1-10. If we were 10-1 he probably would have been offered another extension. To me, you can't have it both ways.

Right now, the part I am struggling with most, is the fact that in 2 of the 3 games we lost - Dino's actions personally had an impact on the outcome (Rutgers unsportsmanlike & Wake game management) of the game. The other loss was against 0-4 FSU team that we should have beat (yes yes the refs suck I know).

To me, in year 6, these kinds of things can't happen. Maybe in year 1 or year 2 I'd give him a pass. But in year 6? No chance.

I said this somewhere else - it's not like there's some guy sitting out there who will come here, get everything else right that Dino did / does, and hit on the two to three 50 / 50 calls that went badly.

We clearly need to tighten things up (figure out Smytz - this is a huge issue, not overthink some things).

The Rutgers thing was a terrible terrible call (and see above on Smytz). It's a good example though of what happens to a person when they break character.

 

[Bayside44]

Correct...if he went 10-1...none of the posters would say..."2020 does not count!". It is moving the goal posts. Bad record...does not count. Good record...it counts!!! It is total silliness. As you said, can't have it both ways. Most fans understand this.

It counts. The record was 1-10. End of story.

This was also discussed, we were something like one more player away from being DQed from qualifying to play. It was bizarre year where our kids were hurt, out, going to the NFL, and over-regulated due to COVID as opposed to our peer group.

Most employers understand that.

 

[storange]

That’s where I am too. I feel like we have taken our best shot this year and with our annual injury purge coming and we still are losing these games.

Next 3 games will be a gauntlet. If we don’t win another game this year how do we reconcile this? That’s my point. Dino isn’t gonna survive a 3 win season where we didn’t beat a power 5 team.

The optimistic outlook is we out will a few teams down the stretch and finish w 5 wins. What do we do there. Is that optimistic? What does that look like?

Interesting, so we have no chance of winning 3. Teams like BC and Pitt don’t ever get beat up late in the season as we do huh.

 

[Evan Miller]

Interesting, so we have no chance of winning 3. Teams like BC and Pitt don’t ever get beat up late in the season as we do huh.

Apparantly. Other teams don't have injuries. I guess the story that BC lost their starting QB this season after one game was fake news. The excuses are just amazing. Everyone...every team has injuries!!

 

[GoSU96]

Why would 2020 not count? Was it a fake season? It clearly counts. Everyone was impacted by covid. Every single team. Not all finished 1-10. Say Syracuse goes 3-9. That would be 0-8 ACC record. What is 2021 excuse? Injuries, Delta variant? Italian spy satellites?

I mean this is ridiculous. You are what your record says you are!!

Uh, nope.

not all teams were impacted by COVID equally, and there were multiple other issues involved. 2020 is a complete pass. It was 11 scrimmages.

right this defense is ranked 22nd, 66 spots higher than his best.

this is clearly the best ol since 2012, best run game since P was here

the best players on the team are for the most part the younger guys

Wildhack is going to look at the state of the program, the roster, the overall performance against peers, the incoming class, not just wins and losses,

as of game six this team has the 22nd ranked defense, 59th ranked offense, and that’s with a deficient pass offense

if they can find a way to throw it 8-10 more times a game, getting to 200 a game they will win more than they lose the rest of the way

 

[syrBossHogg]

how did all that stuff you listed happen?

none of the credit, all of the blame

I give him credit for bringing in players Tucker and Shrader, but despite putting those pieces together he coaches like we're the 2020 Jets offense and the 2013 Seahawks on defense in key scenarios.

Playing for a 45 yard FG (which isn't automatic for college kickers) when it's 4th and 2 and your offense had run 10+ yards 3 times on the drive is what meathead coaches do

 

[Evan Miller]

Uh, nope.

not all teams were impacted by COVID equally, and there were multiple other issues involved. 2020 is a complete pass. It was 11 scrimmages.

right this defense is ranked 22nd, 66 spots higher than his best.

this is clearly the best ol since 2012, best run game since P was here

the best players on the team are for the most part the younger guys

Wildhack is going to look at the state of the program, the roster, the overall performance against peers, the incoming class, not just wins and losses,

as of game six this team has the 22nd ranked defense, 59th ranked offense, and that’s with a deficient pass offense

if they can find a way to throw it 8-10 more times a game, getting to 200 a game they will win more than they lose the rest of the way

Serious question. Say it is 0-8 1-7, 2-6...poor ACC record. I consider anything under 3-5 really bad. Will you say the 2021 ACC record counts then? Or is it a 1-10 type mulligan again? Every single team had covid constraints in 2020. Once again..Every team had covid issues, it is nothing but a lame, cheap excuse...why act like it was unique to Syracuse. I don't get that. What will be excuse this time? Delta?

Say it is 2 ACC wins in 2021. That is a 3 year ACC record of 5-21. Would you call this acceptable? Would any other FBS coach last?

 

[djorange1989]

well, if JW does retain him then we had better hang onto the kids who are eligible to come back next year because I think we will be a good team next year(I think we are a good team now actually) in spite of whatever bonehead moves Dino makes. the worst case scenario is he is brought back and a bunch of kids jump into the portal anyway.

 

[TheCusian]

How about winning and going to bowl games? Does that count anymore at SU?

The pre-season argument I saw on this board to retain was get to 6 and a bowl. Close losses don't help that especially when you're making important in game decisions that don't work in close games.

Fact is we have finished in the Bottom 4 of the ACC in 5 of his 6 seasons and we are sitting there again this season. If he gets to 6 and we go bowling I'll call it a good season and we move forward. If not, he should be gone imo.

How can you preach accountability to players if the head of your program has no accountability himself. Its so hypocritical.

The PTSD from the Grob years around here is real I guess. Having 1 winning record in 6 years (if thats what we end up with) should be a dismissal in a P5 conference or you're telling on yourself as a program.

Whoa, lot there big fella.

1. I think it says a lot about our program that we don’t hold the W/L record from a pandemic year against our HC and staff. There is a fine line between holding someone accountable and allowing that there are things outside of their control to account for some of the results. It was a weird year.

2. I don’t want my AD relying on W/L record to determine job performance *alone*… we ain’t Bama and shouldn’t expect those results. The measure of a HC here (and anywhere, IMO) should be more nuanced.

3. I’ve said this a lot, but for me the measure is: Do you have have faith that Dino can build a good program, where going to a bowl is the norm, the players are taken care of, and doesn’t put a stink on the university?

Some here will say, no. I said prior to this season that I think 6 wins is a good metric *this season.* I still believe that. And I think this team will be a bowl team, barring injury to GS or #44. But if they get to 5 and we’re as close as we have been the last two weeks? Are you sure he’s not the guy!? I’m not. There’s room for nuance here.

(Also if note: the new DC is good and Dino deserves credit in solving that problem. The O is starting to coma alive, he gets credit for that too. The OL change appears to be a great hire. Recruiting? QB? All better than we thought, maybe?)

 

[Crusty]

Uh, nope.

not all teams were impacted by COVID equally, and there were multiple other issues involved. 2020 is a complete pass. It was 11 scrimmages.

right this defense is ranked 22nd, 66 spots higher than his best.

this is clearly the best ol since 2012, best run game since P was here

the best players on the team are for the most part the younger guys

Wildhack is going to look at the state of the program, the roster, the overall performance against peers, the incoming class, not just wins and losses,

as of game six this team has the 22nd ranked defense, 59th ranked offense, and that’s with a deficient pass offense

if they can find a way to throw it 8-10 more times a game, getting to 200 a game they will win more than they lose the rest of the way

I am so tired of whistling past the grave yard, finding ways to be optimistic and making excuses for very, very poor results. I am reminding myself that in business and in life I would never ever engage in such folly, as I do with SU football.

We can analyze these national stats until the cows come home and in the end they tell us very little. For heaven's sake Troy is 8th in total D nationally and they are 3-3 in the Sun Belt Conference.

We all know that the losses in the secondary are starting to show and, in the end, we will prove to have an average defense. The team defensive ranking is dropping fast. We are 33rd vs FBS competition and 67th vs conference foes - and all we have left are conference foes. We also have yet to play the high scoring Pitt and Louisville offenses, which are sure to drive our numbers up and ranking down. Next year we will have challenges on the D Line losing two RSS and one Sr and the secondary still won't be great.

Honestly, I don't know what we have. We have been uncompetitive for so long that we latch onto anything positive whether or not warranted. Yes, we have a few very good players - just not nearly enough and each year we recruit at the bottom of the conference and the middle of the nation. We are not improving by any real measurable standard.

I am resigning myself to just watching the Shrader and Tucker show and not worrying about won -lost record or bowl eligibility. I think it will be more fun and certainly easier on the psyche.

 

[CousCuse]

I am so tired of whistling past the grave yard, finding ways to be optimistic and making excuses for very, very poor results. I am reminding myself that in business and in life I would never ever engage in such folly, as I do with SU football.

We can analyze these national stats until the cows come home and in the end they tell us very little. For heaven's sake Troy is 8th in total D nationally and they are 3-3 in the Sun Belt Conference.

We all know that the losses in the secondary are starting to show and, in the end, we will prove to have an average defense. The team defensive ranking is dropping fast. We are 33rd vs FBS competition and 67th vs conference foes - and all we have left are conference foes. We also have yet to play the high scoring Pitt and Louisville offenses, which are sure to drive our numbers up and ranking down. Next year we will have challenges on the D Line losing two RSS and one Sr and the secondary still won't be great.

Honestly, I don't know what we have. We have been uncompetitive for so long that we latch onto anything positive whether or not warranted. Yes, we have a few very good players - just not nearly enough and each year we recruit at the bottom of the conference and the middle of the nation. We are not improving by any real measurable standard.

I am resigning myself to just watching the Shrader and Tucker show and not worrying about won -lost record or bowl eligibility. I think it will be more fun and certainly easier on the psyche.

IMO, he should have been let go after last season, but there was no interest in that from any front. At this point however, he has held on and brought in new coordinators who are actually capable of coaching at the ACC level. The offense is putting up stats and points and the D is young but making plays and playing tough. Dino has 2 years left on his contract and might as well have those seasons with the new staff, QB and 44 to get things together. If the results are just so-so and recruiting doesn't improve then the program should at least have a good base under it for a new coach.

 

[Acesn8s]

I really don’t understand the logic behind going from Dino to full meathead like Addazio and Marrone. Super conservative coaches aren’t going to work here and archaic ideas out of the 1990’s. If that’s who we go with I would gladly stay home on Saturday’s.

Marrone > Babers any day of the week.

 

[GoSU96]

If not, shame on AD. 2020 counts.

So when’s the appointment with Wildhack? Bring your checkbook.

 

[Acesn8s]

Whoa, lot there big fella.

1. I think it says a lot about our program that we don’t hold the W/L record from a pandemic year against our HC and staff. There is a fine line between holding someone accountable and allowing that there are things outside of their control to account for some of the results. It was a weird year.

2. I don’t want my AD relying on W/L record to determine job performance *alone*… we ain’t Bama and shouldn’t expect those results. The measure of a HC here (and anywhere, IMO) should be more nuanced.

3. I’ve said this a lot, but for me the measure is: Do you have have faith that Dino can build a good program, where going to a bowl is the norm, the players are taken care of, and doesn’t put a stink on the university?

Some here will say, no. I said prior to this season that I think 6 wins is a good metric *this season.* I still believe that. And I think this team will be a bowl team, barring injury to GS or #44. But if they get to 5 and we’re as close as we have been the last two weeks? Are you sure he’s not the guy!? I’m not. There’s room for nuance here.

(Also if note: the new DC is good and Dino deserves credit in solving that problem. The O is starting to coma alive, he gets credit for that too. The OL change appears to be a great hire. Recruiting? QB? All better than we thought, maybe?)

Just honestly curious when you are paying a coach millions of dollars a year to win football games, what do you want the athletic director to base job performance on? We don’t have to Alabama or Ohio State but can we be a middle of the road ACC team for god sakes. He isn’t doing anything spectacular on or off the field to justify his salary. I really hope I eat my words but I don’t see 2 more wins on the schedule and especially not 3.

 

[721Comstock]

If you see 2020 as counting that’s on you.

Also, list the HC in the ACC who’ve had a 10 win season and beaten a top 2 ranked team.

Dabo.
Dino.

I’m pretty sure that’s the list, as far as current ACC coaches in their current tenure.

(I’m guessing Mack Brown *may* have achieved that at some point in his career. But it’s not a gimme.)

 

[Acesn8s]

So when’s the appointment with Wildhack? Bring your checkbook.

If he is a season ticket holder he is bringing his checkbook.

 

[721Comstock]

If he is a season ticket holder he is bringing his checkbook.

Yeah, those $125 checks really add up.

 

[Crusty]

Whoa, lot there big fella.

1. I think it says a lot about our program that we don’t hold the W/L record from a pandemic year against our HC and staff. There is a fine line between holding someone accountable and allowing that there are things outside of their control to account for some of the results. It was a weird year.

2. I don’t want my AD relying on W/L record to determine job performance *alone*… we ain’t Bama and shouldn’t expect those results. The measure of a HC here (and anywhere, IMO) should be more nuanced.

3. I’ve said this a lot, but for me the measure is: Do you have have faith that Dino can build a good program, where going to a bowl is the norm, the players are taken care of, and doesn’t put a stink on the university?

Some here will say, no. I said prior to this season that I think 6 wins is a good metric *this season.* I still believe that. And I think this team will be a bowl team, barring injury to GS or #44. But if they get to 5 and we’re as close as we have been the last two weeks? Are you sure he’s not the guy!? I’m not. There’s room for nuance here.

(Also if note: the new DC is good and Dino deserves credit in solving that problem. The O is starting to coma alive, he gets credit for that too. The OL change appears to be a great hire. Recruiting? QB? All better than we thought, maybe?)

I really don't think that is in concert with big time college football. W-L record is the first measure of success and without it the rest is just rationalization. Nuance means a subtle difference. Dino's record is not nuanced - it is an antonym for nuance.

Taking care of players and not putting a stink on the univeristy and winning are not mutually exclusive.

 

[supp]

While I am not advocating for Steve Addazio to be our next head coach, he does possess many of the qualities for a successful coach at Syracuse.

He has northeast roots, is a strong recruiter, believes in a strong OL/DL and run first mentality. He has a fiery personality that resonates with a blue collar community.

I know many will say he is a meathead coach but obviously a coach from outside of the Northeast who plays wide open spread or a pro scheme does not seem to work at Syracuse.

Using the above characteristics as a model for our new coach who might be available in the next 1-2 years to replace Ohana?

Blazing hot take. This guy has never won more than 7 games in any single season.