Burn it all down. This is rock bottom

[AZOrange]

New lineup:

Mintz
Taylor
Bell
Brown
Edwards

We’re going nowhere, play the 4 freshman and Edwards.

And make Copeland the backup PG and move Judah off the ball when he comes in.

The freshman are superior. I really don’t understand why guys like SY play at all.

 

[OrangeDW]

The freshman are superior. I really don’t understand why guys like SY play at all.

The criticisms of Bell are ironic given that Girard has played 35 mpg for 4 years while bringing nothing to the table other than shooting. Different sets of rules.

Having a 6’6-6’7 kid like Taylor who actually hustles will improve the defense greatly and while he won’t shoot like that every night…..will he be any more inconsistent than Joe?

It’s time to move on.

The value of Symir last year was that he’s not cement footed compared to our perimeter players of last year and doesn’t play like a moron in terms of shot selection. He was the only guy on the court who wasn’t a slow chucker. We needed someone who passed.

But he’s not going to really make much happen. Copeland has a way higher upside. Future is now. Make some moves.

 

[Manleymen]

New lineup:

Mintz
Taylor
Bell
Brown
Edwards

We’re going nowhere, play the 4 freshman and Edwards.

And make Copeland the backup PG and move Judah off the ball when he comes in.

At this point what have we got to lose? I like it. Feel somewhat bad for Joe - but after all these years - well it is time to take off the cement shoes and lace up the track shoes. It would be nice to have an inspired upbeat team get out and fast break. And even a delayed fast break instead of the uninspiring one on one - or whatever we're calling that offense now.

 

[Scooch]

Meh, both sides are right. The Coach and the Product both matter a lot for recruiting. AlaskaSU is correct that it was easier to recruit when we were Beast of the Big East. How could it not be? That isn't to say we should not have moved to the ACC. We clearly should have. But since moving over we have largely become the Bell & Howell of the conference, a former big name that is now kept around just for it's intellectual property power while offering a sub-par product. That can't help recruiting, it just can't.

But how did we become the “beast of the Big East”? That was Boeheim. Alaska is ignoring that it took a coach to create the program that then “recruited for itself”. He’s claiming that people at a program don’t matter, and that’s simply false.

 

[Scooch]

The freshman are superior. I really don’t understand why guys like SY play at all.

Sy plays because JB decided that he plays. It’s nonsensical. I don’t want to be mean, but Sy is a 4th guard on a team that should play 3 guards.

 

[CuseCPT]

But how did we become the “beast of the Big East”? That was Boeheim. Alaska is ignoring that it took a coach to create the program that then “recruited for itself”. He’s claiming that people at a program don’t matter, and that’s simply false.

I don't disagree. I think he's overstating the importance of conference, but to be fair, some people arguing with him are underselling it.

 

[Sherman20]

But how did we become the “beast of the Big East”? That was Boeheim. Alaska is ignoring that it took a coach to create the program that then “recruited for itself”. He’s claiming that people at a program don’t matter, and that’s simply false.

Exactly. And if the ACC is all about Duke and Carolina, how do you explain the success of UVA and Florida State over the past 8 years? When we joined, Syracuse was a major Basketball power (not on the level of Duke and UNC but a notch below). Cuse and Louisville joining the ACC was supposed to help raise the overall quality and consistency of the conference. It did for a few years though we’ve fallen off since then. But there’s no reason we can’t be a Beast of the East again.

 

[Scooch]

Exactly. And if the ACC is all about Duke and Carolina, how do you explain the success of UVA and Florida State over the past 8 years? When we joined, Syracuse was a major Basketball power (not on the level of Duke and UNC but a notch below). Cuse and Louisville joining the ACC was supposed to help raise the overall quality and consistency of the conference. It did for a few years though we’ve fallen off since then. But there’s no reason we can’t be a Beast of the East again.

Agree. Villanova has won 2 national titles as a member of a conference that’s decidedly weaker than the one they were in 10 years ago.

 

[Scooch]

I don't disagree. I think he's overstating the importance of conference, but to be fair, some people arguing with him are underselling it.

Conference is important, but programs like Villanova and Gonzaga show that’s it’s not nearly as important as the guy at the helm. Heck, the Big 12 went from Kansas and the 11 dwarves to arguably the best hoops league in the country. All because of the dynamic head coaches at several programs.

 

[AZOrange]

Conference is important, but programs like Villanova and Gonzaga show that’s it’s not nearly as important as the guy at the helm. Heck, the Big 12 went from Kansas and the 11 dwarves to arguably the best hoops league in the country. All because of the dynamic head coaches at several programs.

Almost no 18 year old is making a college decision based on conference

 

[Scooch]

Almost no 18 year old is making a college decision based on conference

Hell, if a kid stays 4 years there’s a good chance his school changes conferences 3 times while he’s there.

 

[CuseCPT]

Almost no 18 year old is making a college decision based on conference

Not the conference itself, but stature within whatever conference, yes.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not the conference itself, but stature within whatever conference, yes.

We’ve had top 60 players from upstate pick Indiana, Maryland, Notre Dame and Washington over us. JB sucks as a recruiter now. It’s the only and right answer.

 

[Scooch]

Facebook just reminded me that it was seven years ago today that we won the Battle for Atlantis, by knocking off ranked UConn and Texas A&M squads.

We rolled out a core six of Gbinije, Richardson, Coleman, Cooney, Roberson and Lydon in those games.

Man, I think that team would beat our current edition by 10, easily, if not more. This program has fallen off a cliff.

 

[djcon57]

Facebook just reminded me that it was seven years ago today that we won the Battle for Atlantis, by knocking off ranked UConn and Texas A&M squads.

We rolled out a core six of Gbinije, Richardson, Coleman, Cooney, Roberson and Lydon in those games.

Man, I think that team would beat our current edition by 10, easily, if not more. This program has fallen off a cliff.

Our last legit very good team

And they still had W TF losses sprinkled throughout the year.

 

[Scooch]

Our last legit very good team

And they still had W TF losses sprinkled throughout the year.

Yep. That team underachieved until the tourney.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yep. That team underachieved until the tourney.

I think the record would have been a lot better had JB‘s Suspension not been moved up in a 24 hour period in the middle of the season. That entire scenario was ridiculous. We were 10-7 and 0-4 in conference when he returned.

 

[Cuse1055]

Facebook just reminded me that it was seven years ago today that we won the Battle for Atlantis, by knocking off ranked UConn and Texas A&M squads.

We rolled out a core six of Gbinije, Richardson, Coleman, Cooney, Roberson and Lydon in those games.

Man, I think that team would beat our current edition by 10, easily, if not more. This program has fallen off a cliff.

And that team, even though they made a miraculous NCAA run, was a bubble team that most fans didn’t think was getting in after losing to Pitt in the ACC tournament. That team would also get smoked by our 09-14 teams and basically almost any team between 84-06.

 

[two3zone]

Facebook just reminded me that it was seven years ago today that we won the Battle for Atlantis, by knocking off ranked UConn and Texas A&M squads.

We rolled out a core six of Gbinije, Richardson, Coleman, Cooney, Roberson and Lydon in those games.

Man, I think that team would beat our current edition by 10, easily, if not more. This program has fallen off a cliff.

10? That team would boatrace this one by 25.

 

[Scooch]

10? That team would boatrace this one by 25.

It’s the Christmas season, I’m trying to be kind.

 

[Melancer46]

The criticisms of Bell are ironic given that Girard has played 35 mpg for 4 years while bringing nothing to the table other than shooting. Different sets of rules.

Having a 6’6-6’7 kid like Taylor who actually hustles will improve the defense greatly and while he won’t shoot like that every night…..will he be any more inconsistent than Joe?

It’s time to move on.

The value of Symir last year was that he’s not cement footed compared to our perimeter players of last year and doesn’t play like a moron in terms of shot selection. He was the only guy on the court who wasn’t a slow chucker. We needed someone who passed.

But he’s not going to really make much happen. Copeland has a way higher upside. Future is now. Make some moves.

I’m with you on Bell vs Girard but:

1. For me at least, I don’t think there’s any chance at all that Girard is benched so I just don’t really care to consider the direct comparison/the idea of starting Taylor at the 2.
2. Tbf, Girard was a legitimately efficient scorer last season (finally). Bell may or may not be. I’m still kinda skeptical but he’s put together a few nice scoring games in a row now.
3. Joe is somehow a significantly better rebounder than Bell, and obviously also a better passer at this point in time. Both are mostly bad defensively (and I wouldn’t say Joe is a good passer by any means, but he’s shown more than Bell even if part of that is just about opportunity.)

Keeping things realistic (meaning, Girard and Jesse are locks to continue starting), the only change I’d make is Taylor for Bell.

 

[blust2i3d4]

But not SU, but ACC.

If both Duke and UNC lose today, it will solidify that ACC has becomes second tier conference, not jst football but basketball. B1G and SEC will run away and ahead with more and more money they get from the networks.

 

[AlaskaSU]

This is simply not true. You’re suggesting we live in a world where programs always recruit at the same level and the people involved have no impact. That is obviously and demonstrably false.

1) Schools generally recruit systems the same level unless there is a fundamental change.
2) Recruiters only have an effect at the margins. The elite programs sell themselves.
In the Big East our image was more valuable than some fans realize. That image is gone and it is not coming back.

Did being in the Big East ever help Rutgers? Being in the ACC does not help our recruiting. What helped our recruiting was being a Beast of the East.

 

[Cusefan0307]

1) Schools generally recruit systems the same level unless there is a fundamental change.
2) Recruiters only have an effect at the margins. The elite programs sell themselves.
In the Big East our image was more valuable than some fans realize. That image is gone and it is not coming back.

Did being in the Big East ever help Rutgers? Being in the ACC does not help our recruiting. What helped our recruiting was being a Beast of the East.

Good god. By this logic UVA would have never been good in the ACC. They sucked for 20 years before Tony Bennett showed up.

Indiana has been garbage since Knight retired.

Coaching matters more than anything.

 

[CuseCPT]

They both matter. And being really strong in one can offset being weak in the other. Even a bad recruiter would get results at Duke. And a very good coach and recruiter can turn Virginia into a powerhouse despite their previous lack of stature within the conference.