Burn it all down. This is rock bottom | Page 14 | Syracusefan.com

Burn it all down. This is rock bottom

AlaskaSU said:
1) Schools generally recruit systems the same level unless there is a fundamental change.
2) Recruiters only have an effect at the margins. The elite programs sell themselves.
In the Big East our image was more valuable than some fans realize. That image is gone and it is not coming back.

Did being in the Big East ever help Rutgers? Being in the ACC does not help our recruiting. What helped our recruiting was being a Beast of the East.
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Yeah, this is wrong. It's OK, we're all wrong sometimes, and you are here.

Others keep asking about programs that have risen, and fallen, and you steadfastly refuse to answer. Because you're wrong.
 
The coach definitely matters. Why else would kids go to play at places like UK, Duke, and North Carolina.
Wouldn’t they want to go play in Miami or Southern California.
Everything matters at the end of the day but the coach is the ultimate persuader.

Alabama was ranked 2 times in 12 years before Oats got there.

Virginia made the tournament 2 times in 12 years before Bennett got there.

Houston was ranked 2 times in 30 years before Sampson got there.

And even an elite school like UK can mess up the coaching hire and turn into garbage. Ever heard of Billy Gillespie? UK made the tourney as a single digit seed 13 years in a row before Billy G. His first year UK was an 11 seed, his second year they didn’t make the tournament. He was fired, Coach Cal was hired and went 35-3 his first season.
 
CuseCPT said:
They both matter. And being really strong in one can offset being weak in the other. Even a bad recruiter would get results at Duke. And a very good coach and recruiter can turn Virginia into a powerhouse despite their previous lack of stature within the conference.
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They both matter, but it's the coach that matters most. Saddle Duke with a lousy coach/recruiter and within a few years they won't be "Duke". And we know that'll happen because it happened at UCLA, Indiana, etc.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
Not sure the point you are trying to make. Outside of the last decade Syracuse has been better than Virginia forever.

A school in Lansing Michigan has been a basketball power for decades.
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Have you been to Charlottesville?
I think it's a nicer - quainter - town than SYR. Not far from Richmond, which is also nice (but would undermine my theory... since the Spiders aren't a b'ball powerhouse...)
 
atlanticuse said:
Have you been to Charlottesville?
I think it's a nicer - quainter - town than SYR. Not far from Richmond, which is also nice (but would undermine my theory... since the Spiders aren't a b'ball powerhouse...)
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The point I was making was if it’s such a great town why did they suck for most of their history besides the past 10 years?

Miami basketball has been largely terrible forever. Location plays less of a part of who is good in basketball than it does football.

Not to mention not everyone has the same living preferences. I’m sure I’ll offend some people here, but the Southeast United States is the last place I would ever live in the country and other people love it.
 
atlanticuse said:
Have you been to Charlottesville?
I think it's a nicer - quainter - town than SYR. Not far from Richmond, which is also nice (but would undermine my theory... since the Spiders aren't a b'ball powerhouse...)
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Here we go!
 
Last edited:
PER:
Jesse - 34
Brown - 22
Mintz - 22
Taylor - 19
Hima - 19
Joe - 14
Ajak - 14
Benny - 11
Symir - 10
Bell - 9
Copeland - 6
Carey - 1
 
Cusefan0307 said:
The point I was making was if it’s such a great town why did they suck for most of their history besides the past 10 years?

Miami basketball has been largely terrible forever. Location plays less of a part of who is good in basketball than it does football.

Not to mention not everyone has the same living preferences. I’m sure I’ll offend some people here, but the Southeast United States is the last place I would ever live in the country and other people love it.
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It’s basketball culture more than location. Miami is a football school. Virginia is a basketball school. These 18 year olds couldnt care less about geography, they want exposure.

And I’m a big believer that the coach is one of the biggest drivers of the basketball culture at the school. In a short amount of time, they can drive it as Tony Bennet and Sampson have done, or sink it as JB have done. Brand name is another factor that helps out, but can only go so far (ie. Cuse, Louiseville, Pitt)
 
Syracuslove said:
It’s basketball culture more than location. Miami is a football school. Virginia is a basketball school. These 18 year olds couldnt care less about geography, they want exposure.

And I’m a big believer that the coach is one of the biggest drivers of the basketball culture at the school. In a short amount of time, they can drive it as Tony Bennet and Sampson have done, or sink it as JB have done. Brand name is another factor that helps out, but can only go so far (ie. Cuse, Louiseville, Pitt)
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Pitt is an interesting case study. I think they drastically overestimated the brand/conference side of the equation versus coach (Dixon).
 
phil77 said:
What is Oats buyout at the end of the year? Because JB has made me salty, I want Oats the most because JB will be pissed off.
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Oats would be the kind of fast-rising, high profile, difference-making coach that would instantly turn around our recruiting and the buzz around the program. The problem is we’d have to pay him a boatload of money to leave Bama. I think the program has the money to make it work (because of Dome ticket and basketball program revenue) but the issue is, will the administration actually pony up?
 
CuseCPT said:
Pitt is an interesting case study. I think they drastically overestimated the brand/conference side of the equation versus coach (Dixon).
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Then they made a disastrous hire in Kevin Stallings that completely torpedoed the program. And Capel hasn’t been much better.
 
Sherman20 said:
Oats would be the kind of fast-rising, high profile, difference-making coach that would instantly turn around our recruiting and the buzz around the program. The problem is we’d have to pay him a boatload of money to leave Bama. I think the program has the money to make it work (because of Dome ticket and basketball program revenue) but the issue is, will the administration actually pony up?
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I would put it at less than 1%. Probably less than 0.5%
 
Fly Rodder said:
I would put it at less than 1%. Probably less than 0.5%
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I agree the only problem I see is that Oats should probably be at the top of the list due to his success in NY and then his success at Alabama. Especially his recruiting at Alabama. Money shouldn't matter. It doesn't matter to other top programs across the country but for Syracuse it is always a stumbling block for making the correct move.
 
phil77 said:
I agree the only problem I see is that Oats should probably be at the top of the list due to his success in NY and then his success at Alabama. Especially his recruiting at Alabama. Money shouldn't matter. It doesn't matter to other top programs across the country but for Syracuse it is always a stumbling block for making the correct move.
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How many guys move among the SEC or ACC or B1G? Seems like it's been a while...
 
Will also depend on other factors the level of each job within the conference/national landscape right? It isn't just black and white.
 
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