Can you teach Speed...have at it gentlemen | Syracusefan.com

Can you teach Speed...have at it gentlemen

SUfaninAZ

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From looking at his film, his quarterback doesn't do him any favors; he throws a lot of "ducks" and passes that would ordinarily be picked off. On the trick play, the receiver actually threw the best deep ball in that video which says a lot about what he's working with.

You can't teach height and speed. The level of competition is bottom of the barrel so it is difficult to gauge the talent when playing with peers. I'm not into offering scholarships to players just to offer. If he were a 2020 player, you could bring him into a camp to have a better look at what he could do.
You can't teach height, but you can teach speed.
 

shu 49

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No, you can't.
A little actually. Form being first if it’s bad and then explosiveness and foot speed are able to improve. Generally a 4.8 kid could be a 4.7 kid which does matter. Ones with terrible form but speed to burn make bigger jumps. Depends on lifting and what devices they use also in weight room. Our guy will make u faster. U won’t be Bo Jackson fast but who is.
 

CDNCuse

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A little actually. Form being first if it’s bad and then explosiveness and foot speed are able to improve. Generally a 4.8 kid could be a 4.7 kid which does matter. Ones with terrible form but speed to burn make bigger jumps. Depends on lifting and what devices they use also in weight room. Our guy will make u faster. U won’t be Bo Jackson fast but who is.

You have to have the innate ability to being with.
 

PhatOrange

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You can improve speed a tick but your either fast or you’re not. And there are varying degrees of fast. There’s (quick/explosive), there’s fast out of the gate, or fast once you hit your stride.
 

LeMoyneCuse

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You can improve speed a tick but your either fast or you’re not. And there are varying degrees of fast. There’s (quick/explosive), there’s fast out of the gate, or fast once you hit your stride.
To add some color to this - A guy I went to high school was a short-distance coach for a couple of D1 track and field programs. He said the goal for an athlete is to shave .1 off of the 100 time every season.
 

ottodaorange

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I ran track and played football. In my day I was considered fast. Today there are probably lineman as fast as I was then. There are valid points made here but one more point is that not everyone carries the equipment they wear as well, which effects speed on the field.
 
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creatorsgam

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You can improve speed a tick but your either fast or you’re not. And there are varying degrees of fast. There’s (quick/explosive), there’s fast out of the gate, or fast once you hit your stride.

Going to disagree here. Flat out incorrect.

If you take an athlete and expose them to some dynamic speed exercises, if they have never done them before, they can grow more than just a “tick.”
 

PhatOrange

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Going to disagree here. Flat out incorrect.

If you take an athlete and expose them to some dynamic speed exercises, if they have never done them before, they can grow more than just a “tick.”

You have data to back that up? I just know when I played sports in high school and college, nobody got faster than the kids who were already the fastest kids. And as much as kids worked out they didn't really get any faster.

I don't have data points either but when I say a tick, I'm talking .1. But from a 4.6 to a 4.4 I highly doubt it. And straight 40 track speed not wearing any pads is another story.

Just look at our own wideouts. Steve Ishmael did not become Quadry Ismail over 4 years of trying to get faster.
 
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creatorsgam

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My data is myself and a buddy of mine.

He returned to lacrosse one year explosive. Asked him what he did. Went to speed camp.

Did the same that summer. Also became one of the fasted players on the team, and I started with cement in my cleats.

Speed can be coached. Box jumps, depth jumps, bungee runs, foot speed drills... different people have different ceilings.

At the D1 level, maybe the ceilings are a bit comparable. High school may be a bit different I suppose. In context you may be correct here. At lower levels I think there can be exponential growth more than just a tick.
 

PhatOrange

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My data is myself and a buddy of mine.

He returned to lacrosse one year explosive. Asked him what he did. Went to speed camp.

Did the same that summer. Also became one of the fasted players on the team, and I started with cement in my cleats.

Speed can be coached. Box jumps, depth jumps, bungee runs, foot speed drills... different people have different ceilings.

At the D1 level, maybe the ceilings are a bit comparable. High school may be a bit different I suppose. In context you may be correct here. At lower levels I think there can be exponential growth more than just a tick.

How do you explain our WRs then? Our average speed guys don’t become the deep threats who stretch the field over the duration of their careers. And they have acces to top of the line training.

I agree you can become more explosive and quicker but I don’t believe faster in a straight line race much more than a tick.
 
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creatorsgam

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How do you explain our WRs then? Our average speed guys don’t become the deep threats who stretch the field over the duration of their careers. And they have acces to top of the line training.

I agree you can become more explosive and quicker but I don’t believe faster in a straight line race much more than a tick.

I can’t. Perhaps at the D1 level, the ability is almost tapped out. So maybe that is where the “increase a tick” argument holds weight.
 

cuse309

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My data is myself and a buddy of mine.

He returned to lacrosse one year explosive. Asked him what he did. Went to speed camp.

Did the same that summer. Also became one of the fasted players on the team, and I started with cement in my cleats.

Speed can be coached. Box jumps, depth jumps, bungee runs, foot speed drills... different people have different ceilings.

At the D1 level, maybe the ceilings are a bit comparable. High school may be a bit different I suppose. In context you may be correct here. At lower levels I think there can be exponential growth more than just a tick.
Sounds like you're referring to agility as opposed to straight ahead speed.
 
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creatorsgam

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Sounds like you're referring to agility as opposed to straight ahead speed.

Well, with foot speed drills. But everything else seemed to lead to straight up speed.

Granted this was ‘98, so my memory may be a bit foggy.
 

Ringostar57

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40 yard dashes are an indicator...the football field though is a 100 yards. When you run track 100 meters there are multiple components to the race; your start out of the blocks, the first 15 to 20 yards building speed and coming up, 20 to 50 maintaining form and building speed, and the final 50. Real talented sprinters are still building speed those final 50 m.
Football speed over the first few yards is rarely linear. Quickness shiftyness is important encountering obstacles. When you are in the open strait lining it for the flag the one thing you don't want to do is slow down. That means keeping your form, not turning to look whos chasing you and not playing around with the football. That is what got Moe Neal run down on his second long run against Louisville.and Howard fumbling at the goal line against UConn. He shortened his stride when he looked back If he lengthened his stride at about the 20 he would have made it.
I have seen 21.0 runners in the 200 meter races over a period of a year with training and running strategy running sub 20 second 200s
We have fast guys who can get out there but for some reason fail to finish the last 5 to 10 yards on long runs. Observe what they are doing wrong in the final 10 to 20 yards. You want to run on your toes but you don't want to bounce you want to glide pushing forward.
 

CIL

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You have data to back that up? I just know when I played sports in high school and college, nobody got faster than the kids who were already the fastest kids. And as much as kids worked out they didn't really get any faster.

I don't have data points either but when I say a tick, I'm talking .1. But from a 4.6 to a 4.4 I highly doubt it. And straight 40 track speed not wearing any pads is another story.

Just look at our own wideouts. Steve Ishmael did not become Quadry Ismail over 4 years of trying to get faster.

I ran a 4.71 at my first collegiate timing. Left at 4.53.

Strength and conditioning help tremendously.

20 years later I now run a 6.21 and my body looks like a bag of milk. Thanks beer.
 

dollarbill44

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You have to have the innate ability to being with.
If you have two legs and no physical deformities, you have the innate ability. Studies have shown you can actually change muscle fiber from slow twitch to fast twitch and vice versa. The right coaching and training can improve speed. So, yes, you can teach speed.
 

CDNCuse

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If you have two legs and no physical deformities, you have the innate ability. Studies have shown you can actually change muscle fiber from slow twitch to fast twitch and vice versa. The right coaching and training can improve speed. So, yes, you can teach speed.
This is true but it is also very true that you or I will never be faster than Usain Bolt regardless of how much coaching or training we do.
 
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richard levy

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Going to disagree here. Flat out incorrect.

If you take an athlete and expose them to some dynamic speed exercises, if they have never done them before, they can grow more than just a “tick.”
Agree. there is a reason why players make speed training a part of their preparation for the NFL combine, where tenths of a second can improve their draft position. Crossing over from one tenth, to the next lower tenth happens, e.g. 4.61 to 4.57. Seems arbitrary, but they are faster in the minds of the NFL
 

RandomGuy

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If you have two legs and no physical deformities, you have the innate ability. Studies have shown you can actually change muscle fiber from slow twitch to fast twitch and vice versa. The right coaching and training can improve speed. So, yes, you can teach speed.
Yepp. Plyos and band training for the fast twitch. It works, to a point. There have been studies. The Jamaican sprint team, which uses these methods, was compared with the Japanese team,which does not. Jamaicans had better results, in terms of improvement and specific muscle growth. Athletes that haven't used these methods, can see improvements.
 

shu 49

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I can’t. Perhaps at the D1 level, the ability is almost tapped out. So maybe that is where the “increase a tick” argument holds weight.
And that’s probably true. Speed can be improved whether it be first ten yds or stride length. My son didn’t have great stride length so Cory Parker worked a little more on his first ten yds and made him very explosive but he also improved his arm movement. Went from a 5 forty kid to a lasered 4.8 kid. His shuttle improved dramamtically with a 4.13 at su camp. He is only 5’9” but another friend of ours was able to improve both get off and stride length and he jumped .3 seconds timed. So it can happen and maybe less at the high level but it can still be improved or we wouldn’t do any speed training.
 

Shrmdougluvr

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If by teaching speed you mean maximizing someone's ability, of course you can.
 

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