Cant be an elite program with Cooney as a starter

[SaltLakeOrange]

He's been in the program 3 years.

And your point is?

 

[KaiserUEO]

That's what I think is happening. It was sad for all of them at whatever age they were

I think they were i his jersey and he couldn't get a shot off. Then the refs took his only salvation away with that dumbass flagrant.

ridiculous.

He will avg 15 next year.

 

[VirginiaOrange]

He's a bench player - he brings nothing to the table other than a deep shot possibility

As erratic as Cooney is, he brings more to the lineup than the hole in the middle. Christmas gets outplayed by nobodies every night. He was supposed to be a top 25 recruit? Almost zero improvement. Big clumsy guys outplayed him this year. Anyone recruiting a big man against SU only has to point out the total lack of development of most of the recent guys outside of AO to provide a reason not to come. Get Orr back in the game as an overpaid big man assistant because no one is getting it done now.

 

[Bayside44]

And your point is?

My point is after 3 years in the program he isn't where a 3 year guy needs to be. Not even close.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

My point is after 3 years in the program he isn't where a 3 year guy needs to be. Not even close.

I think everyone needs to walk back off the ledge. TC is a redshirt Sophomore. Last year he played very little. His improvement from last year to this year was incredible. I don't know what more the kid could do to satisfy some of you people...whatever...

 

[AZOrange]

My point is after 3 years in the program he isn't where a 3 year guy needs to be. Not even close.

The biggest problem I have with him ( and the rautins comparisons) is that he literally does nothing else on the court. His lack of generating anything for anyone else and his porous d is astonishing

 

[Bayside44]

I think everyone needs to walk back off the ledge. TC is a redshirt Sophomore. Last year he played very little. His improvement from last year to this year was incredible. I don't know what more the kid could do to satisfy some of you people...whatever...

Hit some shots. Be consistent. He barely played last year. He's just not that good for the type of program people here want. It happens.

 

[AZOrange]

I think everyone needs to walk back off the ledge. TC is a redshirt Sophomore. Last year he played very little. His improvement from last year to this year was incredible. I don't know what more the kid could do to satisfy some of you people...whatever...

The thing I don't get is what is missing. He's pretty athletic, he's not undersized, his form is fine. Just psychological at this point? I don't know. Doesn't explain why he can't create or struggles on d.

 

[baggerbob]

You can't have a starting guard on your team play 1068 minutes, and get only 38 assists, that makes him one-dimensional, and a liability on offense. Even the guy who can't be named in 2001 had more assists then Trevor, our 2 forwards this year who no-one would mistake for Larry Bird as a passer had more assists. JB said after the 1st game in the tournament, Trevor needs to be more then a shooter, so he realizes the problem. Hopefully someone steps up next year, or we will have the same type offense. With all the problems on offense this team overachieved with 28 wins. By the way Neither of our underclassmen are ready for the NBA. Grant has no game outside 8 feet, and I'm sure his father, and Uncle would tell him so.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Hit some shots. Be consistent. He barely played last year. He's just not that good for the type of program people here want. It happens.

By this logic neither is Jerami Grant or CJ Fair or even Tyler Ennis...they are kids and they sometimes can't shoot straight. But I would never throw them under the bus the way some folks do...I

 

[CIL]

Hit some shots. Be consistent. He barely played last year. He's just not that good for the type of program people here want. It happens.

I'll disagree. Very similar career numbers to Rautins at this point. As a fanbase, we probably expect more out of Cooney than we did Rautins at this point. For that, I blame the staff for failing to recruit or develop a true 3rd guard.

 

[Melancer46]

You can't have a starting guard on your team play 1068 minutes, and get only 38 assists, that makes him one-dimensional, and a liability on offense. Even the guy who can't be named in 2001 had more assists then Trevor, our 2 forwards this year who no-one would mistake for Larry Bird as a passer had more assists. JB said after the 1st game in the tournament, Trevor needs to be more then a shooter, so he realizes the problem. Hopefully someone steps up next year, or we will have the same type offense. With all the problems on offense this team overachieved with 28 wins. By the way Neither of our underclassmen are ready for the NBA. Grant has no game outside 8 feet, and I'm sure his father, and Uncle would tell him so.

I think this is more about the way Boeheim managed the team than Cooney. Even last year, Cooney was a solid passer despite the fact that he couldn't make anything. This year, he and Gbinije both showed flashes of being very solid passers. But once Ennis goes into the game, neither of them are allowed to handle the ball. Even when they get a loose ball with a chance to push it for an easy fast break opportunity, they have to hold up and wait for Ennis and get him the ball. Just confusing that Boeheim trusts them enough to run things while Ennis isn't on the floor, but once he's on the floor, they can't be trusted at all.

 

[baggerbob]

I'll disagree. Very similar career numbers to Rautins at this point. As a fanbase, we probably expect more out of Cooney than we did Rautins at this point. For that, I blame the staff for failing to recruit or develop a true 3rd guard.

Andy as a sophomore replaced Josh Wright, after that experiment failed, in the starting lineup with Eric, and that was a fairly good team at the end of the year. Andy could put the ball on the floor, and was a good passer, plus could get his shot off quickly against anyone.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Well, going into the year I was very high on Cooney, and early on I felt vindicated.

I just don't see it any more.

He's going to make a great third guard (which is fine, an energy guy who can hit shots, and has a decent handle) - but at the end of the day his defense is okay at best, and he offers relatively little outside of his shockingly inconsistent shooting touch. Now, I'm sure he'll become more consistent going forward, but not sure that's enough.

If you can be shut down simply by being overplayed, well, then you're a change of pace guy, not a starting shooting guard on an elite team. He's not just not able to create offense for anyone else - or himself off the bounce. He's too easy to shut down.

He had at least two opportunities last night to use the overplay to his advantage and drive right by his man but didn't. And that just lets his man overplay him even tighter. He cant be so one dimensional and hope to help us.

 

[CIL]

Andy as a sophomore replaced Josh Wright, after that experiment failed, in the starting lineup with Eric, and that was a fairly good team at the end of the year. Andy could put the ball on the floor, and was a good passer, plus could get his shot off quickly against anyone.

I loved Andy as a player. But he wasn't nearly the player his soph and jr years he was a senior. His numbers up until his senior season are actually worse than Cooney's. His Jr year he also has Flynn and Devo to take defensive focus off of him. Cooney does not have that luxury.

Rautins:
Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2009-10 35 32.5 12.1 43.8 40.7 81.5 4.9 3.4 0.2 2.0
2008-09 37 28.7 10.5 38.0 36.6 73.3 3.0 3.3 0.2 1 .4
2006-07 35 21.2 7.2 37.2 35.6 70.8 1.5 2.0 0.2 1.3
2005-06 20 8.0 2.9 37.7 32.6 50.0 0.7 0.9 0.1 0.3

 

[Oakland]

The 2 has historically been SU's weakest position (despite some very good years from Andy, etc), especially in the context of outside shooting. Center would be the next on my list. In that sense, this season is typical.

Congratulations on the promotion.

Watching Shabazz Napier next to what we trot out there is maddening.

The 2 isn't a position of strength for us - let's leave it at that.

 

[AZOrange]

I loved Andy as a player. But he wasn't nearly the player his soph and jr years he was a senior. His numbers up until his senior season are actually worse than Cooney's. His Jr year he also has Flynn and Devo to take defensive focus off of him. Cooney does not have that luxury.

Rautins:
SeasonGPMPGPPGFG%3FG%FT%APGRPGBPGSPG
2009-103532.512.143.840.781.54.93.40.22.0
2008-093728.710.538.036.673.33.03.30.21.4
2006-073521.27.237.235.670.81.52.00.21.3
2005-06208.02.937.732.650.00.70.90.10.3

He'll have it next year with Ennis, grant and CmacCmac

 

[SU2NASA]

You confuse me. Are you saying he is the worst 3 point shooter on this team? If so, your statement is way off. Statistics prove your statent wrong.

If you are saying he is the worst three point shooter on all Syracuse tes, I believe you are way off on that.

I do agree he hasn't performed well since the Notre Dame game. I also agree that he probably does feel bad. In fact, he probably feels worse than we do.

I'm just curious, how long have you been following Syracise men's basketball? I only ask this because we have had some three point shooters that have worse statistics than Trevor.

Seriously? The fact that I put "three point shooter" in quotations obviously confused you. He's here to primarily be a three point threat more than anyone on the team. That's his primary job like every other team in the country has at least one primary three point shooter.

So we have a prototypical three point shooter that's shooting significantly less than the NCAA average of everyone. What was the stat I saw during the NC State game in the ACCT - he's shooting like 19% or 23% from three since his great Notre Dame game?

I have no doubt that he feels worse than I do, but as I've said before, he's not at Syracuse to cure cancer, he's there to shoot a basketball. He chose to play at an elite program that comes with the territory of scrutiny and criticism. I'm sure he's a great kid, and I hope he continues to work hard and get better for next year and comes back and becomes Andy Rautins.

 

[rrlbees]

Andy as a sophomore replaced Josh Wright, after that experiment failed, in the starting lineup with Eric, and that was a fairly good team at the end of the year. Andy could put the ball on the floor, and was a good passer, plus could get his shot off quickly against anyone.

Cooney shot better from the field and the 3 than sophomore Rautin's. He also averaged more tho played more but scored more PPM. He also had a much better free throw percentage. Andy co of out the ball on the floor some, but rarely went to the basket either. He was a good passer but was a high risk passer. Thus he had more assists but more turnovers. Cooney had a better sophomore season than Andy did.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Hit some shots. Be consistent. He barely played last year. He's just not that good for the type of program people here want. It happens.

He's better than Andy or Demetris Nichols at this point. The issue is we had one shooter that wore down. We need multiple guys like we had with Andy and Devnendorf, or Wes and Andy. Having one guy make 90 threes and the number two guy make 30 is not a recipe for success. At least triche was somewhat respected outside last year when southerland was on the floor. I don't get why we are burying a first year starter who was supposed to be our fourth best player. To suggest he won't improve is ignorant IMO. Cooney needs to learn how to go left and get to the hole. If he can do that he will be better next year. By the way, most of you didn't even think he'd average 8 pts a game at the beginning of the season. I'd pull the thread up, but I'm to lazy.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Andy as a sophomore replaced Josh Wright, after that experiment failed, in the starting lineup with Eric, and that was a fairly good team at the end of the year. Andy could put the ball on the floor, and was a good passer, plus could get his shot off quickly against anyone.

Andy put the ball on the floor less than Cooney!

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't know, if I had to choose between these two guys, these are conference numbers only (use 40% as your guide) I'm going with Rautins all day. Cooney feasted on cupcakes, and then 2014 hit.

View attachment 9399

Your comparing a first year starter to fifth year senior.

 

[CIL]

I don't know, if I had to choose between these two guys, these are conference numbers only (use 40% as your guide) I'm going with Rautins all day. Cooney feasted on cupcakes, and then 2014 hit.

View attachment 9399

You are also using Andy's senior season that had All-American Wesley Johnson, Kris Joseph, Arinze, and co on it. Big difference in surrounding talent and maturity.

 

[Ghost]

Your comparing a first year starter to fifth year senior.

Quite right - I meant to use Andy's sophomore year. Uno momento and I'll fix it!

 

[Ghost]