Cant be an elite program with Cooney as a starter

[syr02esq]

He's a bench player - he brings nothing to the table other than a deep shot possibility

I'll go further. I think Cooney is a bust. Well, that's what I said last season. But he's not much better than that. Patterson to start over him.

 

[Bayside44]

By this logic neither is Jerami Grant or CJ Fair or even Tyler Ennis...they are kids and they sometimes can't shoot straight. But I would never throw them under the bus the way some folks do...I

None of them are shooting guards. This really isn't that hard.

 

[Bayside44]

I'll disagree. Very similar career numbers to Rautins at this point. As a fanbase, we probably expect more out of Cooney than we did Rautins at this point. For that, I blame the staff for failing to recruit or develop a true 3rd guard.

Andy wasn't asked to do as much, and he didn't come in with any sorta hype behind him.

 

[hoopsupstate]

You're complaining about Cooney's lack of assists. Who can he pass it to to get an assist? CJ, Grant, and Ennis have to put the ball on the floor in order to score. There's no assists there. Did you check the box score last night. I think we had 4 assists for the total game. The problem is the total lack of motion on offense. One guy with the ball and the other four standing. The ONE time last night that we had any movement on offense was with the Silent G's dunk. We are easy to guard. We never adjusted to the way teams starting playing us in the ACC. Dayton's defense was lousy. We practically had all layups in the second half. We only had one jumper outside of the lane the entire game (Grant's wing jumper). You want to see assists go up then you had better start moving the ball and BODIES need to move too.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Cooney is a great role/bench player. A guy who can come in and hit a shot here and there. He just wasn't good enough (yet?) to start. People need to look at this from a pure, non-orange bball perspective- the guy just isn't a great player. It is what it is. I'm not personally attacking him at all, just providing facts.

When he doesn't make shots, we don't get anything. The last 9 games of the regular season, he had 4 assists. I feel bad for the kid because he obviously gets in his own head. The irony is last year I always thought he was a very good passer. Your starting guard just cannot avg 1 assist a game, especially when you're seriously struggling scoring.

 

[jvbj01]

Seriously? The fact that I put "three point shooter" in quotations obviously confused you. He's here to primarily be a three point threat more than anyone on the team. That's his primary job like every other team in the country has at least one primary three point shooter.

So we have a prototypical three point shooter that's shooting significantly less than the NCAA average of everyone. What was the stat I saw during the NC State game in the ACCT - he's shooting like 19% or 23% from three since his great Notre Dame game?

I have no doubt that he feels worse than I do, but as I've said before, he's not at Syracuse to cure cancer, he's there to shoot a basketball. He chose to play at an elite program that comes with the territory of scrutiny and criticism. I'm sure he's a great kid, and I hope he continues to work hard and get better for next year and comes back and becomes Andy Rautins.

He was the worst "three point shooter" this team has ever had.

This is what confuses me. Are you saying he is the worst three point shooter on this team, or are you saying he is the worst three point shooter on any Syracuse team, ever?

 

[OrangeDW]

It depends on the team around him. Marius Janulis was more one dimensional, and he started for most of the season on our 96 team, and started all season on our 98 team that was very solid.

When the rest of the offense is so limited, it's much easier on a defense to shut down a one dimensional 3 point shooter like Cooney.

 

[OrangeDW]

As erratic as Cooney is, he brings more to the lineup than the hole in the middle. Christmas gets outplayed by nobodies every night. He was supposed to be a top 25 recruit? Almost zero improvement. Big clumsy guys outplayed him this year. Anyone recruiting a big man against SU only has to point out the total lack of development of most of the recent guys outside of AO to provide a reason not to come. Get Orr back in the game as an overpaid big man assistant because no one is getting it done now.

How about getting him more than 3.6 shots per game, instead of freaking out if he misses the one jumphook per game he gets to attempt?

I have zero doubts that he could get us 10 ppg on at least 55% shooting, if we made any kind of attempt at all to consistently get the ball inside.

He averaged 6 ppg on 61% shooting this year. All the handwringing about how "we can't make shots!!" and we've got a post player shooting 61% who never touches the ball.

And from what I saw, Christmas actually showed much improvement offensively this year. He made some very nice moves that we wouldn't have dreamed of him making his first two years.

 

[Cowtown]

My point is after 3 years in the program he isn't where a 3 year guy needs to be. Not even close.

Then one could argue that neither were Matt Gorman, Terence Roberts, Darrell Watkins, Paul Harris, Louis McCroskey, Josh Wright, and quite frankly neither were Andy Rautins or James Southerland ...

But at least Andy and Dirty were strong as seniors. The rest never even came close. But regardless of that, the point is that players develop differently. There's no one-size-fits-all developmental regimen for basketball players. Or for that matter for kids at all.

 

[Cowtown]

It depends on the team around him. Marius Janulis was more one dimensional, and he started for most of the season on our 96 team, and started all season on our 98 team that was very solid.

When the rest of the offense is so limited, it's much easier on a defense to shut down a one dimensional 3 point shooter like Cooney.

Somebody gets it.

 

[OrangeBeer]

He's better than Andy or Demetris Nichols at this point. The issue is we had one shooter that wore down. We need multiple guys like we had with Andy and Devnendorf, or Wes and Andy. Having one guy make 90 threes and the number two guy make 30 is not a recipe for success. At least triche was somewhat respected outside last year when southerland was on the floor. I don't get why we are burying a first year starter who was supposed to be our fourth best player. To suggest he won't improve is ignorant IMO. Cooney needs to learn how to go left and get to the hole. If he can do that he will be better next year. By the way, most of you didn't even think he'd average 8 pts a game at the beginning of the season. I'd pull the thread up, but I'm to lazy.

were either of them high minute starters at the same point in their careers?

 

[TrickySU]

Here's what I don't get: Cooney was the second leading scorer for much of the year on a 25-0 basketball team. He finished barely behind Ennis for third which was expected as Ennis's production increased as the year went on. So Trevor Cooney averaged double figures and was the second/third leading scorer for Syracuse University, yet he's a bench player? Cooney averaged more this year, as a redshirt sophomore, than Rautins did as a senior. Let that sink in. Cooney hit 90 3-pointers this season, which ties him for 7th in the all time SU record book for 3-pointers made in a season, and he took less shots that 6 of the 7 players ahead of him on the list, including the person he's tied with.

We should be commending Cooney for the amazing jump he made from last year to this year. Nobody worked harder than him this offseason to get to where he is. And for people to say he is practice shooter, in unbelievable. The stats and numbers back it up that he was much more than a practice shooter.

 

[Cowtown]

You're complaining about Cooney's lack of assists. Who can he pass it to to get an assist? CJ, Grant, and Ennis have to put the ball on the floor in order to score. There's no assists there. Did you check the box score last night. I think we had 4 assists for the total game. The problem is the total lack of motion on offense. One guy with the ball and the other four standing. The ONE time last night that we had any movement on offense was with the Silent G's dunk. We are easy to guard. We never adjusted to the way teams starting playing us in the ACC. Dayton's defense was lousy. We practically had all layups in the second half. We only had one jumper outside of the lane the entire game (Grant's wing jumper). You want to see assists go up then you had better start moving the ball and BODIES need to move too.

Precisely. For the last month, and last night in particular, we were playing the "Lifeguard" offense: Stand and watch, and move in an emergency. It was dreadful to watch.

 

[OrangeDW]

Here's what I don't get: Cooney was the second leading scorer for much of the year on a 25-0 basketball team. He finished barely behind Ennis for third which was expected as Ennis's production increased as the year went on. So Trevor Cooney averaged double figures and was the second/third leading scorer for Syracuse University, yet he's a bench player? Cooney averaged more this year, as a redshirt sophomore, than Rautins did as a senior. Let that sink in. Cooney hit 90 3-pointers this season, which ties him for 7th in the all time SU record book for 3-pointers made in a season, and he took less shots that 6 of the 7 players ahead of him on the list, including the person he's tied with.

We should be commending Cooney for the amazing jump he made from last year to this year. Nobody worked harder than him this offseason to get to where he is. And for people to say he is practice shooter, in unbelievable. The stats and numbers back it up that he was much more than a practice shooter.

Agreed. He'll be fine. He's a nice piece, if we can develop the other pieces. Put somebody on the other wing who is a good 3 point shooter, and watch things open up(hopefully we have that guy next year). Put somebody on the other wing who can shoot, and somebody in the post who can score(and who gets the ball), and Cooney will be a lot more efficient.

I'd prefer to have a SG who can shoot, handle, drive, pass and get out on the break too but Dion Waiters is not on the roster anymore.

 

[doc05]

Here's what I don't get: Cooney was the second leading scorer for much of the year on a 25-0 basketball team. He finished barely behind Ennis for third which was expected as Ennis's production increased as the year went on. So Trevor Cooney averaged double figures and was the second/third leading scorer for Syracuse University, yet he's a bench player? Cooney averaged more this year, as a redshirt sophomore, than Rautins did as a senior. Let that sink in. Cooney hit 90 3-pointers this season, which ties him for 7th in the all time SU record book for 3-pointers made in a season, and he took less shots that 6 of the 7 players ahead of him on the list, including the person he's tied with.

We should be commending Cooney for the amazing jump he made from last year to this year. Nobody worked harder than him this offseason to get to where he is. And for people to say he is practice shooter, in unbelievable. The stats and numbers back it up that he was much more than a practice shooter.

Very misleading though. Once conference play begun, we all saw what happened (besides the Notre Dame game). It's one thing to pad your stats against the Cornells of the world. But once conference play began and the level of competition increased, he made no adjustments to his game and couldn't be relied on at all to do the main thing he was brought in to do. JAB give him every opportunity (probably to a fault) to get it right, and he just didn't do it.

 

[Ghost]

Here's what I don't get: Cooney was the second leading scorer for much of the year on a 25-0 basketball team. He finished barely behind Ennis for third which was expected as Ennis's production increased as the year went on. So Trevor Cooney averaged double figures and was the second/third leading scorer for Syracuse University, yet he's a bench player? Cooney averaged more this year, as a redshirt sophomore, than Rautins did as a senior. Let that sink in. Cooney hit 90 3-pointers this season, which ties him for 7th in the all time SU record book for 3-pointers made in a season, and he took less shots that 6 of the 7 players ahead of him on the list, including the person he's tied with.

We should be commending Cooney for the amazing jump he made from last year to this year. Nobody worked harder than him this offseason to get to where he is. And for people to say he is practice shooter, in unbelievable. The stats and numbers back it up that he was much more than a practice shooter.

Yeah, it's hard to reconcile some of this. To a certain extent you are very much correct. With the right make-up, he could still be an effective starter. I think the issue was, as teams focused more on him, and others had off nights, he seemed to buckle. I think that is because he can't create his own shot, and he doesn't create for others. He's not an outstanding defensive guard either, so we don't get soo much there that it balances it out.

With his skill set as it currently stands, he's a great bench guard. The guy that comes in and knocks down some jumpers. Next year we'll see what happens, but I'm not sure we'll see a ton of improvement in the areas where we need him to be better. You need to be able to break people down off the dribble when they're overplaying you to that extent. He can't.

He's an all or nothing player at this point - if he's not hitting threes, what do we get? With Andy (as a senior) we got 5 assists a game and excellent defense.

 

[TrickySU]

were either of them high minute starters at the same point in their careers?

Rautins averaged 32.5 minutes and 12.1 points as a senior. Cooney averaged 12.1 points in 32.1 minutes as a sophomore.

Very misleading though. Once conference play begun, we all saw what happened (besides the Notre Dame game). It's one thing to pad your stats against the Cornells of the world. But once conference play began and the level of competition increased, he made no adjustments to his game and couldn't be relied on at all to do the main thing he was brought in to do. JAB give him every opportunity (probably to a fault) to get it right, and he just didn't do it.

Interesting because if you do the math, Cooney averaged 11.1 ppg in conference play. I'm not denying that his production decreased in conference play, but he still averaged double figures. What more do you want? In 34 games this year, he hit at least one three in all but 5 games.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You can't be elite with Andrew Wiggins as a starter.

 

[anomander]

Andy put the ball on the floor less than Cooney!

Andy also put the ball on the floor with intention. I don't think those side dribbles going nowhere count.

I really think Cooney would be a great 6th man option. Someone who can come off the bench and starting raining 3's. If he's on great ride him all game, if he's off, then get him out.

 

[Statesman1]

I think they were i his jersey and he couldn't get a shot off. Then the refs took his only salvation away with that dumbass flagrant.

ridiculous.

He will avg 15 next year.

That's an excellent point- Cooney missed his open looks last night but the silly rule about elbows definitely gives an advantage to the defender. Cooney is a streaky shooter (so was GMac) but I'm not sure who on the roster presented a better option for outside shooting...Silent G? Ennis? Fair? Not based on what I saw. Too many clowns on this board think making 90 3's is a failure and trying to pin the season on one guy is ignorant. Is he a great player? Hardly, but he definitely doesn't suck. The fact is, when Cooney had his big nights, he helped masked what was a very mediocre half court offense. I know one thing- at least he can tie his shoes.

 

[Statesman1]

TC didnt just change his game once the ACC started he had no game against the better comp. I dont know why everyone thinks that he is such a good shooter. Shooting in practice has little to do with shooting in a real game situation and with very few exceptions he has not shot well at all. At the end of last season i said that he needed to play against top competition in the summer to improve. He did some of that but i believe what we see is what we get. Dont expect a huge jump in his game as his game is pretty much set. I would like to see him come off the bench and provide the team with a spark. Not sure who would start as he seems to be our best option. Truth be told we do not have a good 2 on the team and that has been our weakness all year

Practice? We talking about practice?

 

[Statesman1]

The biggest problem I have with him ( and the rautins comparisons) is that he literally does nothing else on the court. His lack of generating anything for anyone else and his porous d is astonishing

Ignorant statement, he was second in the league in steals- hardly porous as you describe. Everybody on the Cuse should be so awful.

 

[Statesman1]

The thing I don't get is what is missing. He's pretty athletic, he's not undersized, his form is fine. Just psychological at this point? I don't know. Doesn't explain why he can't create or struggles on d.

2nd in the league in steals, what struggles are you referring to?

 

[Ghost]

Rautins averaged 32.5 minutes and 12.1 points as a senior. Cooney averaged 12.1 points in 32.1 minutes as a sophomore.


Interesting because if you do the math, Cooney averaged 11.1 ppg in conference play. I'm not denying that his production decreased in conference play, but he still averaged double figures. What more do you want? In 34 games this year, he hit at least one three in all but 5 games.

He only hit double digits twice in the last 10 games. Once against a low mid-major.

After Notre Dame he only shot 40% of better from three twice. Once against a low mid-major.

 

[djcon57]

I know one thing- at least he can tie his shoes.

LOL RIGHT???

BTW, G's +/- last night was +7. Cooney's was -8.