Coach says recruiting

[SmilinBob]

Beamer took over in 87. He did no better than 6 wins til 1993.

For one I see a defense (outside of the 2nd half Sat that generally plays like a college defense should. Which I haven't seen at SU in ages.Unlike the Air Coryell guys here it's far easier and logical to get a bunch of athletic college kids on a field and tell them to run at and hit dudes than it is to sustain an air raid year in and out.

We threw away a victory at Rutgers and we have a QB will accuracy issues. And a true frosh and RS frosh to back him up. And our best WR decided to do something very dumb.

Not only did the wr do something dumb but if it were at lsu he would have been suspended for maybe a game or 2 and then back on the team. I really think people have to look at the whole big picture here and what they want the coaching staff at SU to represent. Although I do feel that Marrone is wound a bit too tight I also feel that he has this WHOLE program on the right track to success.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I guess it depends on the approach, if people would rather wait 6-7 years to see if we get better then that certainly is their opinion. In year 4, there is absolutely no excuses for anything, there is no blaming the past regime but I will tell you what the jump from year 3 will have to be HUGE. If Nassib was an issue, he has had 3-4 years to replace him as opposed to contnuing to start him.

6-6, 7-5 next year in the Big East isn't good, nor is it every good this year

 

[SmilinBob]

There isn't one big blueprint for success. Each different school has it's own challenges and SU has it's own liabilities and assets that make it different than many. Are there things I want to see this team do that they are not? Absolutely. Do I want to wait for Hackett to grow into his position? I'm not sure. He has potential and I hope that he isn't his father part 2. If this staff is still teaching and has the knowledge to do so to make these kids better than I am more than willing to give them 5 to 6 years because overall I like what I see as again I do believe they are going in the right direction.

Nassib is a fine qb with some limitations. He has to learn to limit those limitations and continue to get better and he took a bit of a step back lately. That said the qb is part of the offense and if his line fails and doesn't pass or run block well it changes what can be done. If the receivers drop the ball or don't get any separation they have even more problems. Players have to step up when another struggles and that is what is needed and not play any sort of blame game.

 

[SoBristol]

Not only did the wr do something dumb but if it were at lsu he would have been suspended for maybe a game or 2 and then back on the team. I really think people have to look at the whole big picture here and what they want the coaching staff at SU to represent. Although I do feel that Marrone is wound a bit too tight I also feel that he has this WHOLE program on the right track to success.

I don't see Sales as that big a factor in wins/losses this year. He is basically on par with Chew/Lemon not a second coming of Mike Williams -- and fortunately Chew/Lemon have stayed healthy, Graham emerged as the third WR, and West is developing as a spare.
But I do agree that the program is headed in the right direction under Marrone. I grant that the rash of penalties and the coverage game are both unacceptable. The focus on Hackett and play-calling, on the other hand, are mis-directed. You can always criticize plays with hindsight. Hackett is a young coach, learning with each game. He will get better and would certainly look better if we had another good RB and a true #1 WR. My concern is that Marrone hasn't recruited over GROB's skill guys, but he has brought in a promising core of young LBs, CBs who should be better as juniors, and a sprinkling of decent bigs. There are some skill guys in the wings (Broyld, Thompson, McFarland) and possibly some of the speed guys (Kobena, Graham, Gulley) will add some juice to the Marrone offense next year. To me, 8-5 last year, 7 wins this year, and better talent overall, shows that we will be solidly competitive (8 wins and a bowl). Now, to get beyond that, we do need 3 or 4 highly rated recruits each year.

 

[SmilinBob]

I agree and I understand that Sales might not have been a big difference maker but was pointing out the difference on how things like this are handled by the coaches.

Great or good talent makes a lot of coaches look better than they really are as does having bad players make a good coach look like he's not a good coach.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Good post Smiling and Bristol, while I disagree with some of it, my whole point is and when I am thinking clearly, I don't think Marrone will ever do GREAT things at Syracuse, sure he will make us respectable, I don't know if we are quite yet respectable on national level because we play in such a conference.. You can'y deny that the recruiting hasn't really been siginificantly better but we have known for 3 years that Marrone's approach wont be for every kid lets just hope it hits home with enough kids, but make no mistake about it, his window for people passing the buck back to GROB is quickly closing, what people fail to realize that a lot of the high character kids that we seem to covet are/were GROB guys too. Smith, Jones' boys Nassib, Lemon, Chew, Pugh, Provo so lets not get carried away here. Those kids will be missed when they leave at least many of them will be.

 

[Digable5]

I'm definitely not happy with the losses to Rutgers, Louisville and UConn. I'm not happy with the progress of the offense with so many veterans. However, having won 8 games in year two and having lost half of the defensive starters, I'm not very surprised that we are taking a bit of a step back. Next season, for me at least, is going to be big (especially for Marrone). He'll have experience on both sides of the ball and will have to show some real progress.

I'm happy with the recruiting so far. He had a real uphill battle after Robinson to restore our credibility. And only one 8 win season probably isn't enough. A decent end to this season and the buidling/upgrade of our facilities will go a long wait to improving recruits' desire to come here.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I'm definitely not happy with the losses to Rutgers, Louisville and UConn. I'm not happy with the progress of the offense with so many veterans. However, having won 8 games in year two and having lost half of the defensive starters, I'm not very surprised that we are taking a bit of a step back. Next season, for me at least, is going to be big (especially for Marrone). He'll have experience on both sides of the ball and will have to show some real progress.

I'm happy with the recruiting so far. He had a real uphill battle after Robinson to restore our credibility. And only one 8 win season probably isn't enough. A decent end to this season and the buidling/upgrade of our facilities will go a long wait to improving recruits' desire to come here.

It starts NOW!!! in all seriousness, Doug needs to win 2 of the next 3 to restore some faith, love it or hate it, the fans won't show up the rest of the year for the next two after the last two weeks

 

[SmilinBob]

A couple of brakes and SU is 7-2. I admit you make your own brakes but SU's within the cusp of being 7-2 and also worse than 5-4 as well. If SU's 7-2 people are going to Marrones lunch and slapping his back, lose the 2 in a row and it's crickets. My point regarding robinson is that it was a complete mess and that goes into the last few years of P as well. I agree with you that you have to have a time when Marrone gets judged on his program and until the 5th year we won't see that but the majority of what is going on now is on his watch good and bad.

Will SU be 13-0 and great? The way it's being built I see 8-4's (starting in 2012) and depending on brakes better or worse. I see a little play to not lose at times and that does bug me. But, I also understand why Marrone tried to put the ball in the defenses hands and tried to avoid letting the UConn specials beat SU, it didn't work but I understand the theory of it.

 

[Scooch]

I commend IB for completing a heel turn normally reserved for the WWE.

Very impressive.

 

[orangenauburn]

did this convo ever disolve into a pissing match ... lets finish the season and see what the record is before we judge (right or wrong) how effective he has been through three seasons - season three is not done yet.

 

[gocraz4dasu]

Hahaha this board can really make me laugh sometimes. Thank the lord some of you have no say in anything

 

[jkm54]

It starts NOW!!! in all seriousness, Doug needs to win 2 of the next 3 to restore some faith, love it or hate it, the fans won't show up the rest of the year for the next two after the last two weeks

It really doesn't start now at all. Marrone could go 0-3 in the next three games and he'll be back next year, whether you like it or not. And if he wins 9 games next year, these last three games won't matter at all so your brash overreaction to not only this past week's game, but also to the importance of these next three games in terms of the long term importance of the future of this program is way off. Our recruiting class is pretty full as well so if we were to lose the next three, unless there are a lot of guys that change their mind, then our recruiting won't be effected that much either.

It seems that the majority of the people in this thread aren't saying that Marrone is knocking it out of the park this year, but what they are saying is that he is doing the best he can with what he inherited. I'm not saying hand him Coach of the Year this year (although I do think last year he merited some discussion), but by no means should anyone even be talking about pulling the plug either. No one should be judging Marrone as a recruiter until next year because we need to see what his recruits will look like as upperclassmen. Expecting Marrone to pull in immediate starters from the high school ranks with the program that he inherited (although he did pull in solid contributers in Spruill and Bromley) is simply expecting too much. If we see much of the same next year, then yes, I agree, your argument becomes more sound, but I'm going to at least give the guy a legitimate shot.

Also, please don't play the "I'm entitled to my opinion card" when you so regularly discount the opinion of others by claiming you're the only sane one in the room. Agreed. Impressive heel turn.

 

[jkm54]

Finally, please stop saying that anyone who has a differing opinion "accepts mediocrity." They simply have a differing opinion from you in how to build a program. And it's an opinion that is more based in reality with what Syracuse Football is dealt with from my point of view than what you are presenting. Because if you had your way and we were rotating coaches in and out, this program would be completely run into the ground.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

However, having won 8 games in year two and having lost half of the defensive starters, I'm not very surprised that we are taking a bit of a step back.

Given what we lost on D I expected a possible step back in terms of Ws and Ls.I didn't expect such a big step back in terms of discipline,effort,apparent lack of game day preperation.I wasn't expecting such wildly inconsist play from an O that returned virtually intact.I know losing DC was a big hit,but why hasn't a competent replacement been found in 3 recruiting classses?RB isn't exactly the toughest position to recruit.Why in year 3 are the STs still such a mess?

Yes we lose players from year to year,but so does everyone else and this is a WEAK conference that we're possibly headed for last place in.It has to stop this weekend and next year has got to be much better.The excuses end with this season.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It really doesn't start now at all. Marrone could go 0-3 in the next three games and he'll be back next year, whether you like it or not. And if he wins 9 games next year, these last three games won't matter at all so your brash overreaction to not only this past week's game, but also to the importance of these next three games in terms of the long term importance of the future of this program is way off. Our recruiting class is pretty full as well so if we were to lose the next three, unless there are a lot of guys that change their mind, then our recruiting won't be effected that much either.

It seems that the majority of the people in this thread aren't saying that Marrone is knocking it out of the park this year, but what they are saying is that he is doing the best he can with what he inherited. I'm not saying hand him Coach of the Year this year (although I do think last year he merited some discussion), but by no means should anyone even be talking about pulling the plug either. No one should be judging Marrone as a recruiter until next year because we need to see what his recruits will look like as upperclassmen. Expecting Marrone to pull in immediate starters from the high school ranks with the program that he inherited (although he did pull in solid contributers in Spruill and Bromley) is simply expecting too much. If we see much of the same next year, then yes, I agree, your argument becomes more sound, but I'm going to at least give the guy a legitimate shot.

Also, please don't play the "I'm entitled to my opinion card" when you so regularly discount the opinion of others by claiming you're the only sane one in the room. Agreed. Impressive heel turn.

I said, year 4 would be Marrone's judegement day. What I feel is irrelevant, he won't be removed after this year or porbaly next regardless but I do maintain I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours.. I may strongly disagree with others and vice versa

My case is that if he closes 5-7 and goes 6-6 next year then he should be fired. IF, not now. My opinion is that he is average or slightly below and that sooner or later he will need to go, whether it's today or 3 years from now isn't my call nor is it yours

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Finally, please stop saying that anyone who has a differing opinion "accepts mediocrity." They simply have a differing opinion from you in how to build a program. And it's an opinion that is more based in reality with what Syracuse Football is dealt with from my point of view than what you are presenting. Because if you had your way and we were rotating coaches in and out, this program would be completely run into the ground.

I wouldn't be rotating once i found the right one.

 

[bnoro]

I know losing DC was a big hit,but why hasn't a competent replacement been found in 3 recruiting classses?RB isn't exactly the toughest position to recruit.

Pretty sure 'Twon is going to get around the same number of yards Delone had last year. But he broke some long runs (something Delone didn't do) and since he gets 3 ypc besides those runs instead of 4 like Delone he's not a competent replacement?

Speaking of replacements, I think Jerome Smith and PTG are going to be a great 1-2 punch next year. Gulley has the shiftyness and I love what I've seen from Jerome running downhill.

 

[jkm54]

I wouldn't be rotating once i found the right one.

I would contend that you never would find the right one because your expectations of completely turning around a program in 3 years is completely unrealistic.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It really doesn't start now at all. Marrone could go 0-3 in the next three games and he'll be back next year, whether you like it or not. And if he wins 9 games next year, these last three games won't matter at all so your brash overreaction to not only this past week's game, but also to the importance of these next three games in terms of the long term importance of the future of this program is way off. Our recruiting class is pretty full as well so if we were to lose the next three, unless there are a lot of guys that change their mind, then our recruiting won't be effected that much either.

It seems that the majority of the people in this thread aren't saying that Marrone is knocking it out of the park this year, but what they are saying is that he is doing the best he can with what he inherited. I'm not saying hand him Coach of the Year this year (although I do think last year he merited some discussion), but by no means should anyone even be talking about pulling the plug either. No one should be judging Marrone as a recruiter until next year because we need to see what his recruits will look like as upperclassmen. Expecting Marrone to pull in immediate starters from the high school ranks with the program that he inherited (although he did pull in solid contributers in Spruill and Bromley) is simply expecting too much. If we see much of the same next year, then yes, I agree, your argument becomes more sound, but I'm going to at least give the guy a legitimate shot.

Also, please don't play the "I'm entitled to my opinion card" when you so regularly discount the opinion of others by claiming you're the only sane one in the room. Agreed. Impressive heel turn.

So let me get this straight in year 3 of a college football coaches tenure who is making 7 figures, finishing what would be 0-5 to finish the season doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. That right there is freaking priceless. PRICELESS!

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I would contend that you never would find the right one because your expectations of completely turning around a program in 3 years is completely unrealistic.

Year 3 sets the tone for year 4 which is where I maintain there are no more excuses that many keep bring up. I said I would give him 4 years because I know I have a short least. After that, I dont want to hear the excuses

 

[SaintTristan]

Year 3 sets the tone for year 4 which is where I maintain there are no more excuses that many keep bring up. I said I would give him 4 years because I know I have a short least. After that, I dont want to hear the excuses

I agree with you (or rather I am glad you have caught to my thinking), but there is an exception to the rule - recruiting. If the guy is going 6-6 but universally considered to be recruiting near the top of his conf then I think you have to consider giving him another yr.

But marrone is recruiting near the bottom of the conf. so the point is moot.

 

[timkay99]

RF2044, if we were so bad off why is Marrone still using all of GUMP's skill guys? Yes GROB was a horrible coach but his recruiting seems to be on par with Marrone's. Syracuse teams have always been decent when we have strong seniors as we did last year. That said, there was still some tremendously horribly games last year as well.. I don't see anyone who can compete with Carter, Williams, or Hogue. Those guys were all really good college players. Holmes, Merk were great last year as well. We had some beef at O Line. Remember we beat VT out for Tribbey as well. GROB's problem wasn't recruiting, he recruited as well as Marrone with a horrid track record on the field

He uses GUMP's skill guys because they are seniors and understand the offense.

Carter? Maybe when Moore gets in better shape.

Williams? Not many schools big or small have a WR like him. If your really judging Marrone on his ability to bring in Williams, well, then your right, he should be gone.

Hogue? Spruill. Davis.

Holmes, Merk were great as seniors. Your telling me Lyn doesn't have that potential. A guy like Eskridge who we haven't seen yet?

Remember we beat out VT for Tribbey? Remember the massive amount of BCS teams Marrone beat out for Max B?

And wait, you mean a team that has strong seniors normally has good seasons? ALERT THE PRESSES!

And to be clear, you just ran through a ton of guys that you said were good that graduated and are now blaming Marrone for not having frosh at the same level as those seniors to have a strong season. Yea, I would lose all faith in Marrone too...

 

[jkm54]

Year 3 sets the tone for year 4 which is where I maintain there are no more excuses that many keep bring up. I said I would give him 4 years because I know I have a short least. After that, I dont want to hear the excuses

Alright...good talk, IB. I guess we'll just have to see what happens, which is more of what I've been thinking all along. Hopefully, we crush out the next three games, next year's squad wins 9 plus games (no matter if we're in the Big East or ACC), the foundation is built for Syracuse football for the next few decades with Marrone at the helm, no one on our staff molests anyone (I truly don't mean to trivialize by making this joke), and everyone's happy.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

Pretty sure 'Twon is going to get around the same number of yards Delone had last year. But he broke some long runs (something Delone didn't do) and since he gets 3 ypc besides those runs instead of 4 like Delone he's not a competent replacement?

Speaking of replacements, I think Jerome Smith and PTG are going to be a great 1-2 punch next year. Gulley has the shiftyness and I love what I've seen from Jerome running downhill.