Coach says recruiting

[IthacaBarrel]

Alright...good talk, IB. I guess we'll just have to see what happens, which is more of what I've been thinking all along. Hopefully, we crush out the next three games, next year's squad wins 9 plus games (no matter if we're in the Big East or ACC), the foundation is built for Syracuse football for the next few decades with Marrone at the helm, no one on our staff molests anyone (I truly don't mean to trivialize by making this joke), and everyone's happy.

Agreed!.

 

[Scooch]

IB, honest question, as recently as 6 weeks ago you were driving the "you have no idea how bad things were" bandwagon. Now if you had your way you'd fire Marrone. I don't think you'll find anyone on this board who's happy with our offense, happy with our specials, or happy with how we've played in just about any game not against West Virginia this season. But why have you turned on Marrone so savagely? It's really bizarre. This program was either devastated, or it wasn't. A game here or there is micro-level stuff, and you were all about the macro when it suited your agenda to defend Marrone.

Honestly I sometimes think this is all an act.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

and since he gets 3 ypc besides those runs instead of 4 like Delone he's not a competent replacement?

I'm not saying I dont think he is,but I have seen that used as an excuse.

 

[Cadillac]

Lemon and Pugh are Marrone's guys. He had no issue telling Derrell Person, Raheem Cardwell, Garrett Barnas et al to take a hike.

Astonished at how few guys have left or are no shows. T. Phillips (family), Cater (criminal), Carter (dumbass), Hawkes (royale dumbass with cheese). Then Peterman, Timbers, Def. Davis. That's it, that's the list.

This was an issue with both P at the end & Gee and really hollowed out the roster. Rankings don't mean squat but are especially hollow when 3, 4 guys never show up every year.

Then all the guys that quit on Marrone, that's a big void. Lot of players like Vaughan for example, maybe not ready to play as a frosh but are pretty good after three, four years. Speller, Middleton, ZStewart. Collier too.

Depth and experience will start to pay off, wish I could say as soon as Friday but this ain't basketball.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

"they all quit on Marrone" Yeah that's it. In addition, Lemon and Pugh verballed to GROB, Marrone held their commitment and vice versa.

 

[Cadillac]

If JP & AL weren't his guys... he would have told them kick rocks, deuces.

And IIRC not everyone was run off, specifically those three.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

IB, honest question, as recently as 6 weeks ago you were driving the "you have no idea how bad things were" bandwagon. Now if you had your way you'd fire Marrone. I don't think you'll find anyone on this board who's happy with our offense, happy with our specials, or happy with how we've played in just about any game not against West Virginia this season. But why have you turned on Marrone so savagely? It's really bizarre. This program was either devastated, or it wasn't. A game here or there is micro-level stuff, and you were all about the macro when it suited your agenda to defend Marrone.

Honestly I sometimes think this is all an act.

Facilities are some of the worst at the BCS level for sure, that is/was and still is my point. The two go hand and hand, people have no idea how bad the facilities actually are until they go to other schools. I maintain that. SU needs to raise a lot more money of they want to be really good. They have to build the infrastucture to attract a top notch coach or to keep a top notch coach and attract top level talent. The Mickey mouse approach won't work, hiring an alumni on the cheap and putting lip stick on a pig with regards to faclities.. #1 Raise money, find a way to do it. We need that whether Marrone is as good as many think or not.

It's not an act, I think Marrone is a below average coach week in week out and at best will be average over the long haul. At best, he will never be GREAT, he doesn't have the it factor to sell the program to people tha matter, IMO

 

[Scooch]

Facilities are some of the worst at the BCS level for sure, that is/was and still is my point. The two go hand and hand, people have no idea how bad the facilities actually are until they go to other schools. I maintain that. SU needs to raise a lot more money of they want to be really good. They have to build the infrastucture to attract a top notch coach or to keep a top notch coach and attract top level talent. The Mickey mouse approach won't work, hiring an alumni on the cheap and putting lip stick on a pig with regards to faclities.. #1 Raise money, find a way to do it. We need that whether Marrone is as good as many think or not.

It's not an act, I think Marrone is a below average coach week in week out and at best will be average over the long haul. At best, he will never be GREAT, he doesn't have the it factor to sell the program to people tha matter, IMO

Nah, you weren't just banging on facilities, you were talking about the talent level, the lack of discipline and accountability in the program, etc. And you didn't address the question. But whatever.

 

[RF2044]

RF2044, if we were so bad off why is Marrone still using all of GUMP's skill guys? Yes GROB was a horrible coach but his recruiting seems to be on par with Marrone's. Syracuse teams have always been decent when we have strong seniors as we did last year. That said, there was still some tremendously horribly games last year as well.. I don't see anyone who can compete with Carter, Williams, or Hogue. Those guys were all really good college players. Holmes, Merk were great last year as well. We had some beef at O Line. Remember we beat VT out for Tribbey as well. GROB's problem wasn't recruiting, he recruited as well as Marrone with a horrid track record on the field

Only game where talent should have been an issue this year was USC and covering WVU and Rutgers wide receivers. Year 3 in this conference, 7-5 should be the ABSOLUTE minimum expectation and we aren't there yet. 8-4 would be a solid to decent season. People act as if the Big East is loaded with talent and great coaches only when Syracuse plays them. It's complete and utter nonsense and excuse after excuse. Marrone has flat out sucked this year, I mean flat out sucked. This team has played 8 or 9 good quarters of football out of 36. I don't see any disputing that.

GROB set the bar so low that people have grown to accept mediocrity and feel that it is actually good. My point is that IN this conference it should be easy to rebuild, not like you are in a decent conference. This is year 3, not year 1. I see the same excuses that I saw two years ago.

It IS easy to rebuild in this conference! And that is what we're witnessing. How do you think the coaching staff got such a depleted roster to a bowl last year and coaxed out a win?

Christ almighty--you act like you don't have any perspective on where we came from a few years ago, which I know is not the case. The team Marrone inherited was the worst BCS conference team in college football--BAR NONE. Then, we had 20+ guys leave the team, and were capped by how many recruits we could bring in any given year to replace them. We've had huge depth / talent issues. We made a bowl last year, and still could make one this year. And in short order, we've replenished the roster and infused a bunch of good athletes into the pipeline. And 55 of the 80 guys on the roster are first and second year players.

What drives me nuts is this notion that things can turn around on a dime. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. In hoops, it is easier for young talent to come in and make an immediate impact. That isn't the case with football recruits generally. Yes, there are some examples--guys like Quinton Spotwood or Mike Williams on offense and Dwight Freeney or Clifton Smith on defense were good enough to emerge as contributors early on. But those are exceptions, not rules. Most recruits really need 2-3 years to physically mature and figure things out--even ones that are good athletes. Having to rely on true frosh is generally NOT a formula for success.

So let's talk about the year 3 thing for a second as it pertains to recruiting. Right now is when we should be expecting Marrone's first class of recruits--which had to be salvaged late in the game after he got the job--to be ascending into more prominent roles. Most if not all members of that class who've stuck around have emerged as important contributors [Peterman never made it here, Carter bailed, Torain Philips transferred, etc.]. But up and down that roster, nearly everyone else is making an impact. Even guys like Torrey Ball who I never expected much from has emerged as a key contributor after being with the program for two years. Charley Loeb might never see the field as a QB, but he's filling an important role as the PK holder. And the rest of the class are guys who are starters for the most part.

And the second recruiting class was a bit better in terms of the players we brought in, and the third one seems even better. Recruiting is trending the right way.

What's absurd is expecting true frosh to come in and play as well as veteran, more physically mature players. What's even more absurd is not recognizing that the majority of players on this team are very young, and that their best football is ahead of them.

I don't disagree with some of your points. The offense sucks, we haven't done a great job recruiting skill players, ST continues to be a disaster, and we've lost two games this year that we shouldn't have.

But I completely disagree with your conclusion about Marrone.

 

[upperdeck]

the teams issues will go away when we get the oline issues solved.. people still need to remember we do not have a single oline kid on the team that came in as a FR and has had time to grow into the system. most of the best teams have 4-5 star kids playing early or everyone else playing as solid Jr/SR after a RS year.. we are playing one true Jr, one RS So, one true So and two Juco kids . not a single kid has been in the system for 4 yrs and the system is really only 2 yrs old.

in two years you have Pugh/macky as srs, if hickey is healthy as a RS jr and several others as RS So.. Huge difference in experience by then.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

I'm not real happy that we're struggling to get where most of us thought we'd end up this year: a 6 or 7 win team. Doug Marrone has indeed earned some of the criticism he is receiving.

On the other hand, it is worth remembering that Doug Marrone has already won more games in a season than Dick McPherson did in any of his first SIX seasons. Season #7 he goes 11-0-1 and a legend is born. Is Doug Marrone a Dick McPherson? Who knows. We'd probably never find out anyway because if Doug can't win at least 8 games again in seasons 4 or 5 there probably won't be a sixth season.

 

[RF2044]

I'm not real happy that we're struggling to get where most of us thought we'd end up this year: a 6 or 7 win team. Doug Marrone has indeed earned some of the criticism he is receiving.

On the other hand, it is worth remembering that Doug Marrone has already won more games in a season than Dick McPherson did in any of his first SIX seasons. Season #7 he goes 11-0-1 and a legend is born. Is Doug Marrone a Dick McPherson? Who knows. We'd probably never find out anyway because if Doug can't win at least 8 games again in seasons 4 or 5 there probably won't be a sixth season.

I agree with a lot of your first paragraph. Before this year, based upon on-field performance of the team, Marrone deserved nothing less than the benefit of the doubt. This year, we've lost two games that we shouldn't have [which would bring us to 7 wins], and have looked bad doing so.

The bloom is off the rose to an extent, and I agree that Marrone deserves some criticism, and that the blank check mentality no longer applies. But I also think it is too early to declare him a failure, or talk about what his ceiling as a head coach is.

 

[jkm54]

I agree with a lot of your first paragraph. Before this year, based upon on-field performance of the team, Marrone deserved nothing less than the benefit of the doubt. This year, we've lost two games that we shouldn't have [which would bring us to 7 wins], and have looked bad doing so.

The bloom is off the rose to an extent, and I agree that Marrone deserves some criticism, and that the blank check mentality no longer applies. But I also think it is too early to declare him a failure, or talk about what his ceiling as a head coach is.

Well said.

 

[billsin01]

Actually, the discussion was focused on Greg Robinson's recruiting success, right?

Pretty much a stretch don't you think - tethering my discussion of Robinson with my desired outcome for last Saturday?

Do you want to believe that I was rooting for UConn Chip? Would that make you feel good for some reason? Were you at the Rent on Saturday sitting in the SU section?

And while I'm posing questions to my distinguished fellow poster, since when do you "normally like" anything I post???
That might be the most surprising sentence in your post!!

I'll self-edit here, but suffice it to say I've never seen a person have such a singularly-focused man-crush on a person in my life. I mean, it's OK, but I guess I'm not sure where it comes from. It's ... odd. Are you family with P?

 

[BlueCurtain]

the teams issues will go away when we get the oline issues solved..

Wrong. Aside from the nepotism dysfunction at center, this O-line is not that much worse than we've had even in our best years. Did we forget that McNabb made a living when plays broke down? Put Nassib on any team from the 90s and they struggle to go .500. That tennessee game in the dome? SU would lose 40-7.

 

[Scooch]

I agree with a lot of your first paragraph. Before this year, based upon on-field performance of the team, Marrone deserved nothing less than the benefit of the doubt. This year, we've lost two games that we shouldn't have [which would bring us to 7 wins], and have looked bad doing so.

The bloom is off the rose to an extent, and I agree that Marrone deserves some criticism, and that the blank check mentality no longer applies. But I also think it is too early to declare him a failure, or talk about what his ceiling as a head coach is.

Perfectly said, RF.

I'm not sure why some people are so crazed. It's clear there are issues that must be addressed. They either will, or they won't. If they aren't then Marrone won't be here a few years from now, it's that simple.

But declaring that he's a failure now, or could never be anything other than "mediocre", is beyond silly.

 

[Chip]

I commend IB for completing a heel turn normally reserved for the WWE.

Very impressive.

Awesome. Up there with Andre, greatest heel turn of all time.

 

[Scooch]

Awesome. Up there with Andre, greatest heel turn of all time.

Seriously, IB, change your avatar to this. Please.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Christ, we are going to go to two bowls in a row for the first time since 98/99, after having been at or under .500 for years. Prior to Marrone, we won 1, 4, 2 and 3 games. This is insane. I'll say it again; barring a total collapse we will be going to two straight bowls.

 

[Chip]

Christ, we are going to go to two bowls in a row for the first time since 98/99, after having been at or under .500 for years. Prior to Marrone, we won 1, 4, 2 and 3 games. This is insane. I'll say it again; barring a total collapse we will be going to two straight bowls.

Well... let me first say, I'm 1000% behind Marrone, way too early to know if he's a 7 win shelf kind of coach, no matter how depressing 3 of the 4 losses have been this year.

But we need to make sure we win one more before the A Bridge Too Far part of your thesis that's underlined is really accurate. Should we lose these next 3 (I don't think likely but certainly possible), we'd be looking at the following trend in Big East records:

2006: 1-6
2007: 1-6
2008: 1-6
2009: 1-6
2010: 4-3
2011: 1-6

Which one is the anamoly? Regardless of any statistical trends, the biggest highlights of this era would be that the previous regime actually brought in some good athletes that our current coaches could leverage to win us games on D (D. Smith, Hogue, Holmes, Merk, Suter, Tribbey, Chandler, Marinovich) and we're better at beating MAC teams (with 1 scare which we caught a break).

If we lose out, it will get noisier, so this needs to end Friday with a win. That should stop the madness.

 

[Millhouse]

Well... let me first say, I'm 1000% behind Marrone, way too early to know if he's a 7 win shelf kind of coach, no matter how depressing 3 of the 4 losses have been this year.

But we need to make sure we win one more before the A Bridge Too Far part of your thesis that's underlined is really accurate. Should we lose these next 3 (I don't think likely but certainly possible), we'd be looking at the following trend in Big East records:

2006: 1-6
2007: 1-6
2008: 1-6
2009: 1-6
2010: 4-3
2011: 1-6

Which one is the anamoly? Regardless of any statistical trends, the biggest highlights of this era would be that the previous regime actually brought in some good athletes that our current coaches could leverage to win us games on D (D. Smith, Hogue, Holmes, Merk, Suter, Tribbey, Chandler, Marinovich) and we're better at beating MAC teams (with 1 scare which we caught a break).

If we lose out, it will get noisier, so this needs to end Friday with a win. That should stop the madness.

is it a total collapse if we lose 3 games in a row where we are not favored?

we have a 1/3 chance of losing the next three, imo

replied to the wrong post - replying to the one chip replied to

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I love the depleted roster argument, yet Marrone can't recruit over any of them. We just need him to stockplie his recruits.. Great! and I am tough to follow. What. Good recruiters get it done. I honestly think recruiting is Doug's biggest weakness.

 

[jkm54]

is it a total collapse if we lose 3 games in a row where we are not favored?

we have a 1/3 chance of losing the next three, imo

replied to the wrong post - replying to the one chip replied to

Well, I'll agree that counting the previous 2 losses, and losing the next 3...sadly, I do think that losing 5 in a row to finish out the season qualifies as a total collapse.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

I love the depleted roster argument, yet Marrone can't recruit over any of them. We just need him to stockplie his recruits.. Great! and I am tough to follow. What. Good recruiters get it done. I honestly think recruiting is Doug's biggest weakness.

...and those kids are freshman and sophomores who are playing right now.

 

[Upstate]

I love the depleted roster argument, yet Marrone can't recruit over any of them. We just need him to stockplie his recruits.. Great! and I am tough to follow. What. Good recruiters get it done. I honestly think recruiting is Doug's biggest weakness.

Recruiting is the weakness of every BE school. Recruiting will improve with the ACC move.