Coaching is a huge problem

[Marty McFly]

At what point are the players responsible for putting the ball in the basket?

I agree we 'gotta make shots'. I also think if the players can't buy a bucket they need to get involved in other ways. That is something you get taught in junior high. Set a pick, grab a rebound, hustle your ass off, become a facilitator... something anything to get you off the shnide and help the team. This aspect of the team is sorely lacking. Yes, we had lots of missed wide open 3's. But if we can't buy a shot gotta try something besides keep chucking.

 

[PhatOrange]

I know you're a HUGE lacrosse fan, but at what point are you willing to admit think the basketball program is headed down the same path as the lacrosse program?

When Colgate basketball is better than Syracuse basketball I'll admit it.

Lacrosse competes with like 10 other schools.

 

[Fly Rodder]

jb needs good small forwards to take over. hughes isn't designated, he spends way too many possessions standing in the corner. without great small forwards, what does this offense ever do?

If Battle didn't come back, I don't think Hughes would be at the 3.

 

[Millhouse]

You post a lot of stupid things but this is right up there..

may be a stupid thing to post but it's not a stupid thing to think

i'm saying i think that but i'm not posting it wait i kind of am

 

[hoopsupstate]

You must realize that you stomping around your den, throwing couch pillows and blasting Boeheim or Howard or whoever has the same net impact as not reacting like this. All it does is cause your dog or cat to go to another room and hide out.

No body wants to win these games more than the players and coaches. Nobody is not trying out on the floor. You might start with that. And you might even consider that if you were smarter than they are, you could make a whole lot more money.

Some humility wouldn’t hurt.

You may say you want to win, but the effort is not showing they want to win bad enough.

 

[Newhouser]

Oh yes you are. It's just that your anger isn't aimed at JB or the players. It is aimed at the posters that have the temerity to point out the flaws on our program. And not for nothing, but according to the NCAA, your guy doesn't have 1040 wins because he put his school on probation not once but twice. And also not for nothing, he isn't your guy. He is our guy. And we named the court after him. And have cheered him for years. but this program has slipped. And it shows no sign of getting any better any time soon. You have been around for a while, do we recruit the same caliber of player now that we did in the past? Yes or No. Are the games as enjoyable to watch? Yes or No. I loved going back to Syracuse to watch games. I don't do that any longer. The people that are upset, aren't wrong. Yes, some were never fans of Jb and they can be discounted. But that isn't everyone.

and that guy is holding the program hostage until he chooses to leave. This is not going to end well. There is no precedent that it has.

 

[PhatOrange]

The thing is is that it IS the responsibility of the coaching to run sets that get the players into positions where they can get a good look. Too many times I’ve seen our offense be “Tyus Battle iso’s and puts up a long two.”

I mean bad shooting nights are a thing that happens. Bad shooting four year long stretches are somewhat more concerning.

I see A LOT of wide open shots that go clangity clang clang clang. Especially bunnies.

Tyus Battle has to iso because he's the only upper echelon D1 player on the team who can actually dribble and create.

I happen to like our motion offense, it creates a lot of open looks, but it's only successful when the shots go in. How many times have we shot poorly and won ? I'll have to go check...but those same players being coached by the same coach running the same offense shot 41.6% at Duke, hit 9 threes and won the game. Things that make you go hmmmm

Plays like Franks lob to Marek that he fumbles out of bounds are not really on the coaches. That type of play happens frequently.

 

[Alsacs]

jb needs good small forwards to take over. hughes isn't designated, he spends way too many possessions standing in the corner. without great small forwards, what does this offense ever do?

We need a Jonny Flynn/MCW/Scoop PG more than we need a Wes Johnson/CJ Fair SF type.
PGs who can penetrate and create for others are more important.
Our best offenses had a PG who could move the ball and run transition offense and had a post player we could throw the ball down in the block and get us double digit PPGs whether it was Warrick/Onuaku/Jackson/Lydon.

 

[samspann1]

The thing is is that it IS the responsibility of the coaching to run sets that get the players into positions where they can get a good look. Too many times I’ve seen our offense be “Tyus Battle iso’s and puts up a long two.”

I mean bad shooting nights are a thing that happens. Bad shooting four year long stretches are somewhat more concerning.

This. So much of this.

So many times, immediately after a TO, we have a horrible possession, and I've thought "what the hell did we do during that TO?"

 

[Newhouser]

jb needs good small forwards to take over. hughes isn't designated, he spends way too many possessions standing in the corner. without great small forwards, what does this offense ever do?

We also need great small forwards in the zone to rebound. We haven't had that in a while either - Melo and Wes were great at it.

 

[Jake]

There’s no way to describe last night as anything other than a hot mess.

That was as disorganized a free for all as I have ever seen.

The two guiding forces that you need, a game plan and a point guard to execute it seemed missing.

 

[PhatOrange]

They are, but they're also not getting good looks at the basket. I don't think anyone can look at the SU offense of the last few seasons and see a smooth machine that churns out good shot opportunities. Well Townie can, but I put that troll on ignore long ago.

who runs a smooth offense ? serious question ?

 

[Alsacs]

who runs a smooth offense ? serious question ?

Gonzaga, Villanova, Duke, Iowa, Michigan.
They play high quality offense basketball when the opponent doesn’t muck up the game on them.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I happen to like our motion offense, it creates a lot of open looks, but it's only successful when the shots go in.

All offenses are successful when the shots go in.

Also, I wouldn't rely on 1 or 2 games as an indicator of how well or poorly a team executes.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I see A LOT of wide open shots that go clangity clang clang clang. Especially bunnies.

Tyus Battle has to iso because he's the only upper echelon D1 player on the team who can actually dribble and create.

I happen to like our motion offense, it creates a lot of open looks, but it's only successful when the shots go in. How many times have we shot poorly and won ? I'll have to go check...but those same players being coached by the same coach running the same offense shot 41.6% at Duke, hit 9 threes and won the game. Things that make you go hmmmm

Plays like Franks lob to Marek that he fumbles out of bounds are not really on the coaches. That type of play happens frequently.

Ok but having one guy on the roster who can dribble and/or create at a D1 level seems problematic as well.

I don’t want JB gone as I don’t think we’re gonna be much better with Coach Red or Coach Gmac but it’s pretty clear to me that I’m going to have to re-calibrate my expectations for SU basketball for a while.

 

[PhatOrange]

Gonzaga, Villanova, Duke, Iowa, Michigan.
They play high quality offense basketball when the opponent doesn’t muck up the game on them.

Besides Nova recently what has it gotten them? I'd personally love to see Villanova's and Duke's offense with our collection of talent.

 

[PhatOrange]

All offenses are successful when the shots go in.

Also, I wouldn't rely on 1 or 2 games as an indicator of how well or poorly a team executes.

I'm relying on hundreds actually.

 

[PhatOrange]

Ok but having one guy on the roster who can dribble and/or create at a D1 level seems problematic as well.

I don’t want JB gone as I don’t think we’re gonna be much better with Coach Red or Coach Gmac but it’s pretty clear to me that I’m going to have to re-calibrate my expectations for SU basketball for a while.

guys leaving early and our PG misses have done the recent teams in. Our current PG is just awful.

see I remember a loooong stretch of pretty mundane basketball until Carmello arrived.

 

[Cusefan0307]

guys leaving early and our PG misses have done the recent teams in. Our current PG is just awful.

see I remember a loooong stretch of pretty mundane basketball until Carmello arrived.

We were still a 4 seed in 2000 and a 5 seed in 2001.


We”ll be lucky to be an 8 this year.

 

[HOFCeluck]

guys leaving early and our PG misses have done the recent teams in. Our current PG is just awful.

see I remember a loooong stretch of pretty mundane basketball until Carmello arrived.

Dude. We were a top five seed four times from 1996 to 2002. We went to the final four. We won the Big East in 2000! We had a better seed in the 1999 tournament than either 2016 or 2018. And that was a down year.

I would kiiiiiiill to be that Mundane right now.

 

[Fly Rodder]

who runs a smooth offense ? serious question ?

I've posted this a few times, but "smooth" is a qualitative term. Efficient is more accurate. SU's offense is exceptionally slow and not particularly efficient (i.e., converting shots to points). If your team is playing with fewer possessions by design, which SU does, possessions become more valuable and need to be converted to points at a higher rate to keep up. That Duke game was won because Syracuse took 80* (20% higher than 2nd most) shots, but they still weren't particularly efficient. That game was an outlier in terms of how they played offense.

SU also doesn't convert FTs, which they need to do because they're scoring with the clock off. UVA is an example of an exceptional offense geared to make the most of every single posession and burn as much clock as possible.

*Forgot that this was an OT game, but 72 FGA in regulation are still the most SU has attempted this season. by 4 against the defensive juggernaut Morehead State (68).

 

[Fly Rodder]

I'm relying on hundreds actually.

OK, so you're not being serious. Have fun.

 

[NineOneSeven]

The thing is is that it IS the responsibility of the coaching to run sets that get the players into positions where they can get a good look. Too many times I’ve seen our offense be “Tyus Battle iso’s and puts up a long two.”

I mean bad shooting nights are a thing that happens. Bad shooting four year long stretches are somewhat more concerning.

Good shooting teams can point to bad shooting nights to explain losses. Last year Villanova lost to Providence when they shot 3-20 from deep. They can look at that game and go, we just did not have a good shooting night.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Earlier in the week we had townie vs franco, now we have townie vs dasher. Outside of the game last night, this has been a good week.

 

[HOFCeluck]

And not to be a dick but as a Syracuse fan we don’t get to use “early departures” as an excuse. We’re a big boy program and that’s part of the game.

Recruiting misses happen. But that excuse will only get you so far.