Coaching is a huge problem

[two3zone]

You are way more overconfident than you should be.

Attendance is tied to winning. Take the winning away and that attendance will shrink like the football attendance shrank.

The Conference is good news and bad news. It’s very easy for a program to get stuck in the middle or at the bottom.

And the ease of hiring a Dinoesque coach is a pipe dream. How did that work out for us in football over a near 20 year period? If anything, SU lucked into Babers after a long line of failures and a guy who treated the job as a stepping stone.

I paid a lot of attention to Georgetown’s recent search. None of the coaches they wanted were interested. They finally had to turn to a former player and lifetime Assistant coach and beg him to take the job.

I actually agree with you on every point.

 

[Townie72]

I'm sincerely curious; how well do you think a Chris Mack or a Buzz would do as HC? There are a ton of solid coaches that would flourish with our resources...

Who knows? Right now they are outside the top tier of the ACC maybe forever. And Mack doesn’t have to worry about those pesky academics. They’ll take anyone.

 

[Scooch]

Not to derail but they had two fewer walks in 2018 than in 2017. Benintendi Betts and Boegarts are young fast and good. I think their young fast guys hit their prime and they're the ones causing the chaos

The change in approach wasn't about taking fewer walks. It was about swinging earlier in the count. For example, in 2017 they had 154 hits on the first pitch of an at bat. In 2018 that rose by +37% to 212 hits.

 

[Townie72]

Yeah, because we all the man we were 20/30/40 years ago...

Just curious.

Are you any smarter or wiser than you were 20/30/40 years ago? Or have you regressed?

 

[Cuse'91]

Just curious.

Are you any smarter or wiser than you were 20/30/40 years ago? Or have you regressed?

I'm not 70 years old yet. But, I can be honest with you and say, I definitely don't have the grind and hustle with my business now, as opposed to even 20 years ago.

 

[Ryand877]

I’ll bite.

What is the SU basketball program without Boeheim? What parts of it do not have his finger prints on it?

He was even an assistant on the 1976 Final Four team.

Of course, there are a bunch of fans who have somehow come to the conclusion that he is the problem and it’s he who is holding the “program” back from rightful and deserved greatness.

To me that’s just predictable noise from the easily frustrated.

Boeheim is Syracuse basketball, I don't think ANYONE here will argue that. However, times change, the game changes, and the way you coach kids(Both from a personal and basketball perspective) has changed. Its not unheard of. By the way I agree with you, things will get worse for a little whenever he leaves, but sometimes you need to get worse than better. I'll take a couple years of NIT or no NIT/NCAA to get back to an upper tier program. Also, you never answered my question from earlier.

 

[Scooch]

It's 100% true. It's scary to say this, but go on youtube and watch any clips from the Flynn era. We run the exact same plays (double fist, elbow, shuffle, and JBs favorite curls) and a high ball screen. One new play, X, was installed in 2013-2014, where Cooney would run from under the basket up to the top of the three point line with a screen at the foul line from the center. it worked in Maui a couple of times, but then teams scouted it, blew it up 1-2 times, and JB didn't create a counter for Cooney, he just ditched the play. We've mostly ditched "5-high" this year, since it took 15 seconds to develop and every team knew it was coming.

"Curls" can be an effective play, but you need to run it crisply like Duke does, and we don't. When coaches can watch tape from 10 years ago, and all the plays are the same, you're really easy to defend.

There used to be a play called Carolina, which was used a lot during Wes's one year here. Wes and the five would go down to the block, with the other 3 players spread across the key. The player on the strong side block would screen for the weak side (usually Wes), and Wes would come to the strong side post and quickly catch the pass for an easy layup. This could be a play for Oshae, but it's long been ditched

Love this post. Really advances the discussion more than non-specific complaining. Really appreciate it.

 

[Scooch]

Just curious.

Are you any smarter or wiser than you were 20/30/40 years ago? Or have you regressed?

LOL. I know a lot of people who THINK they are wiser than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Most of them aren't though. They're just cranky in a "get off my lawn/I miss the good ol' days" kind of way.

 

[Townie72]

I'm not 70 years old yet. But, I can be honest with you and say, I definitely don't have the grind and hustle with my business now, as opposed to even 20 years ago.

Because you don’t have to?

Because you have more junior people do it for you now?

Because you are working smarter rather than harder?

 

[HOFCeluck]

I'm not 70 years old yet. But, I can be honest with you and say, I definitely don't have the grind and hustle with my business now, as opposed to even 20 years ago.

I mean it does you no good in Power 5 sports to be the smartest guy in the room if you don’t want to grind.

 

[Townie72]

LOL. I know a lot of people who THINK they are wiser than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Most of them aren't though. They're just cranky.

Yes, sadly. there are the stupid among us.

 

[Brooky03]

I asked what you think the starting lineup would be.

Carey-Goodine SHOULD be the starting backcourt, imo. It gives us the best combination of athleticism, size, ballhandling, and PG skills. They're also our two highest rated Guard recruits, for whatever that's worth.

This is assuming Battle leaves. Even if he stays, either one of them is an upgrade in speed and the ability to beat pressure defense over Frank.

Gurrier is a consideration, too. He might be able to play SG as well as Forward. I'd be cool with him at SG cuz I think he's going to be an animal. He'd be no slower than Frank or Battle.

Buddy is obviously a possibility at SG, which would clearly slow the team down quite a bit but provide length and a deep threat. It wouldn't be my preference, but whatevs; I could unfortunately see it happening.

 

[chugg21]

There is a reason that every figurehead coach that stays into their 70s ends up getting pushed out. Bobby Bowden is a pretty darn good equivalent of Jimmy.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Carey-Goodine SHOULD be the starting backcourt, imo. It gives us the best combination of athleticism, size, ballhandling, and PG skills. They're also our two highest rated Guard recruits, for whatever that's worth.

This is assuming Battle leaves. Even if he stays, either one of them is an upgrade in speed and the ability to beat pressure defense over Frank.

Gurrier is a consideration, too. He might be able to play SG as well as Forward. I'd be cool with him at SG cuz I think he's going to be an animal. He'd be no slower than Frank or Battle.

Buddy is obviously a possibility at SG, which would clearly slow the team down quite a bit but provide length and a deep threat. It wouldn't be my preference, but whatevs; I could unfortunately see it happening.

I don’t know if it’s fortunate or unfortunate, but any lineup with Carey next year requires a lot of improvement from him in both shooting and ball handling.

 

[CuseDuece]

Love this post. Really advances the discussion more than non-specific complaining. Really appreciate it.

Happy to help advance the discussion, I'm as frustrated as anyone. There were things we did at the start of the year that were ditched for seemingly no reason. I thought our token press at the start of the season was a smart development. Not sure why it was phased out, but it seemed to add a level of apprehension to the opponents

 

[Brooky03]

I don’t know if it’s fortunate or unfortunate, but any lineup with Carey next year requires a lot of improvement from him in both shooting and ball handling.

No point he rehashing this. He's better than he's getting credit for. A lot of short stints off the bench are skewing his stats downward. Games where he's played enough to get into the flow have been mostly good.

 

[OttoMets]

It's 100% true. It's scary to say this, but go on youtube and watch any clips from the Flynn era. We run the exact same plays (double fist, elbow, shuffle, and JBs favorite curls) and a high ball screen. One new play, X, was installed in 2013-2014, where Cooney would run from under the basket up to the top of the three point line with a screen at the foul line from the center. it worked in Maui a couple of times, but then teams scouted it, blew it up 1-2 times, and JB didn't create a counter for Cooney, he just ditched the play. We've mostly ditched "5-high" this year, since it took 15 seconds to develop and every team knew it was coming.

"Curls" can be an effective play, but you need to run it crisply like Duke does, and we don't. When coaches can watch tape from 10 years ago, and all the plays are the same, you're really easy to defend.

There used to be a play called Carolina, which was used a lot during Wes's one year here. Wes and the five would go down to the block, with the other 3 players spread across the key. The player on the strong side block would screen for the weak side (usually Wes), and Wes would come to the strong side post and quickly catch the pass for an easy layup. This could be a play for Oshae, but it's long been ditched

Wow, you are batting 1.000 on posts.

I'd say post more, but it'd be hard to top this consistently.

 

[Bayside44]

Happy to help advance the discussion, I'm as frustrated as anyone. There were things we did at the start of the year that were ditched for seemingly no reason. I thought our token press at the start of the season was a smart development. Not sure why it was phased out, but it seemed to add a level of apprehension to the opponents

Keep posting.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Tempo/pace of play for starters. It's still the same general offense, but without the horses, JAB slows the game down. Only in the last half decade, he's slowed it waaaaaaaay down.
(KenPom AdjT ranks)
2019 261
2018 345
2017 243
2016 314
2015 100
2014 344
2013 235
2012 202
2011 212

2010 59
2009 29
2008 27
2007 32
2006 63
2005 180
2004 169
2003 32
2002 114

Wow we were a real Loyola Marymount in 2015

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Carey-Goodine SHOULD be the starting backcourt, imo. It gives us the best combination of athleticism, size, ballhandling, and PG skills. They're also our two highest rated Guard recruits, for whatever that's worth.

This is assuming Battle leaves. Even if he stays, either one of them is an upgrade in speed and the ability to beat pressure defense over Frank.

Gurrier is a consideration, too. He might be able to play SG as well as Forward. I'd be cool with him at SG cuz I think he's going to be an animal. He'd be no slower than Frank or Battle.

Buddy is obviously a possibility at SG, which would clearly slow the team down quite a bit but provide length and a deep threat. It wouldn't be my preference, but whatevs; I could unfortunately see it happening.

I hope Goodine is goodine enough to be 'automatic' as a starter, but we'll have to wait and see. I do, though, have my doubts that JB will keep his son as the 'reserve.' I'm sure whoever comes off the bench at the 2 position will still get a lot of minutes, but it's hard for me to envision JB basically 'sentencing' Buddy to a reserve role, since both Goodine and Carey would likely be there for at least 2 years. I think i'd rather see Hughes at 2 than Guerrier. Guerrier at 3 and a better Brissett at 4.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

It's 100% true. It's scary to say this, but go on youtube and watch any clips from the Flynn era. We run the exact same plays (double fist, elbow, shuffle, and JBs favorite curls) and a high ball screen. One new play, X, was installed in 2013-2014, where Cooney would run from under the basket up to the top of the three point line with a screen at the foul line from the center. it worked in Maui a couple of times, but then teams scouted it, blew it up 1-2 times, and JB didn't create a counter for Cooney, he just ditched the play. We've mostly ditched "5-high" this year, since it took 15 seconds to develop and every team knew it was coming.

"Curls" can be an effective play, but you need to run it crisply like Duke does, and we don't. When coaches can watch tape from 10 years ago, and all the plays are the same, you're really easy to defend.

There used to be a play called Carolina, which was used a lot during Wes's one year here. Wes and the five would go down to the block, with the other 3 players spread across the key. The player on the strong side block would screen for the weak side (usually Wes), and Wes would come to the strong side post and quickly catch the pass for an easy layup. This could be a play for Oshae, but it's long been ditched

Nice.
This has been a 'thing' for a long time. JB actually said years ago that we only run a small number of plays [relative to other teams?], 'because the kids can't remember/execute more.' Which made me scream at the time, and i've been screaming ever since. What does that actually mean? That we recruit kids with 'shallow memory?' That the staff isn't adept at instilling that kind of learning? WTholyF?

So, yeah, we occasionally have kids who can still execute, despite the easily prepared-for offense. And occasionally we have a kid like Cooney, who ran and ran and ran, and so it appeared he was doing stuff we weren't used to seeing. But, essentially, it's staid. The other teams have an old, dusty binder they can refer to to, and they never needed to update it or digitize it for an ipad. I really hate that our staff hiring is so incestuous. But, i believe that's a factor of 'what keeps JB comfortable.'

Two things made JB a worse coach: getting Carmelo/winning the NC, and being named to the HoF while active. Too much comfort.

 

[Millhouse]

Wow, you are batting 1.000 on posts.

I'd say post more, but it'd be hard to top this consistently.

i always thought of you as the original cuse deuce but not in a good way

 

[supp]

Think it’s bad now?

Wait for the transition and the new regime and the one after that.

It was great while it lasted.

You sound like you've got Stockholm Syndrome. Why does it have to be worse? Someone else could conceivably get more out of this program. It's got way more going for it than G'town, your example of post-legend decline.

Go back to my pop culture example. People might not find Johnny Carson funny today but he was funny once. Everything eventually outlives its usefulness. Sorry but we all have to come to grips with that.

 

[Millhouse]

You sound like you've got Stockholm Syndrome. Why does it have to be worse? Someone else could conceivably get more out of this program. It's got way more going for it than G'town, your example of post-legend decline.

Go back to my pop culture example. People might not find Johnny Carson funny today but he was funny once. Everything eventually outlives its usefulness. Sorry but we all have to come to grips with that.

what schools in good conferences got worse after a really great and really old coach retired? i'm sure there are some, seems like the best way to judge this is to look at comparable schools and coaches

i'm sure some people will think that those other old great coaches were just lucky to be there and that JB is more special but it'd be a start

knight
calhoun (different situation now there)
smith
sutton
driesell
olson
bo ryan
cheney
crum
gary williams
pitino

 

[Cusefan0307]

Nice.
This has been a 'thing' for a long time. JB actually said years ago that we only run a small number of plays [relative to other teams?], 'because the kids can't remember/execute more.' Which made me scream at the time, and i've been screaming ever since. What does that actually mean? That we recruit kids with 'shallow memory?' That the staff isn't adept at instilling that kind of learning? WTholyF?

So, yeah, we occasionally have kids who can still execute, despite the easily prepared-for offense. And occasionally we have a kid like Cooney, who ran and ran and ran, and so it appeared he was doing stuff we weren't used to seeing. But, essentially, it's staid. The other teams have an old, dusty binder they can refer to to, and they never needed to update it or digitize it for an ipad. I really hate that our staff hiring is so incestuous. But, i believe that's a factor of 'what keeps JB comfortable.'

Two things made JB a worse coach: getting Carmelo/winning the NC, and being named to the HoF while active. Too much comfort.

Too long ago. He adapted by going full time zone in 2009 and from that year until 2014 we won at least 27 games every year.

I'd say where he got got worse was thinking he didn't need a pure PG and thinking he could get away with a non offensive shot blocker as a full time center.