Coaching is a huge problem

[Millhouse]

There’s no way to describe last night as anything other than a hot mess.

That was as disorganized a free for all as I have ever seen.

The two guiding forces that you need, a game plan and a point guard to execute it seemed missing.

i officially have serious doubts about carey

college basketball ref has an estimate of offensive points per 100 possessions and defensive points per 100 possessions.

If you subtract Drtg from Ortg Our bottom two guys of the 9 that play are howard and then carey who is a lot worse

it's been so long since the offense has done anything successful with carey in the game - his net per 100 possessions in conference play is atrocious. 12 turnovers to 4 assists per 100 possessions

 

[Madbiker]

Anyone who has watched this program from the days of Pearl Washington knows our recruiting the last 5 years especially ain't what it used to be. Maybe longer. Several reasons and it's not just the sanctions. Internal staff dissension issue, JB aging and not recruiting as aggressively, inexperienced assistant coaches,etc. But SU is not getting the caliber of player they used to get. Some say the recruiting service rankings don't matter. BS. To have a continuing supply of talent that keeps you in the top echelon of the ACC you need a continuing supply of highly ranked kids. Yes, there are occasional sleepers (and we've had our share) but you can't run a top 20 program relying on getting lots of under the radar guys. When you get a lot of players who are not top 75, or in some cases not even top 125, your on court product is going to slip. And that is happening to SU.
Yes, JB has evolved over time away from running up-tempo basketball for whatever reasons. But we have had some very successful years with his revised philosophy -- as long as you have great talented players to run it. We have a lot less of those players recently. If we are going recruit centers who have no offensive skills, then at least get some who are monster rebounders. We can't have guys who score no points and get 4 rebounds. Why are we recruiting PG's with poor handles and have no perimeter shot? How many in a row? Very frustrating to watch.

 

[Scott11]

I get that JB is not responsible for actually putting the ball in the basket and that if guys miss good looks there isn't much he can do about it. But the following are his fault in my opinion:
1.) Playing Sidibie long minutes and sitting Paschal. We know Paschal's faults. But he was not awful last night in the few minutes before he got yanked. On the other hand when Sidibe is in we are effectively playing 4 on 5 on offense. The kid still brings his arms down on defense almost every time so he will be called for fouls and not block or defend shots. His hands are so poor he cannot rebound or finish barely contested opportunities.
2.) It has been mentioned many times before here but the pick and roll with the bigs only clogs up things for the ball handler as the ACC teams don't even defend the bigs.
3.) Shot selection. JB bitches about shot selection, particularly Oshae's, but doesn't do anything about it. No player on that roster should be taking contested outside shots until there is 10 seconds or less on the shot clock. If Oshae keeps chucking, sit him.
4.) We looked totally unprepared for their press.
5.) Frank's behind the back abortion is symptomatic of an undisciplined team. Not only was the play idiotic, but even had it worked what was the point? To have Marek 25 feet from the basket? For a senior pg to be pulling that suggests that this team is not disciplined enough. Would players on other teams feel enabled enough to pull that garbage?
6.) How did we allow Beverly all those looks? Where were the adjustments to identify him as the only guy who could hurt us from outside? If Frank was too lazy to closeout go to Carey and send a message.

It wasn't all on JB. But he had a bad night.

 

[Brooky03]

How? What do you expect the starting lineup will be?
If it's Carey+Buddy or Goodine+Buddy, isn't that pretty much a wash versus Howard+Battle?

Who says Buddy gets the start?

 

[Millhouse]

I get that JB is not responsible for actually putting the ball in the basket and that if guys miss good looks there isn't much he can do about it. But the following are his fault in my opinion:
1.) Playing Sidibie long minutes and sitting Paschal. We know Paschal's faults. But he was not awful last night in the few minutes before he got yanked. On the other hand when Sidibe is in we are effectively playing 4 on 5 on offense. The kid still brings his arms down on defense almost every time so he will be called for fouls and not block or defend shots. His hands are so poor he cannot rebound or finish barely contested opportunities.
2.) It has been mentioned many times before here but the pick and roll with the bigs only clogs up things for the ball handler as the ACC teams don't even defend the bigs.
3.) Shot selection. JB bitches about shot selection, particularly Oshae's, but doesn't do anything about it. No player on that roster should be taking contested outside shots until there is 10 seconds or less on the shot clock. If Oshae keeps chucking, sit him.
4.) We looked totally unprepared for their press.
5.) Frank's behind the back abortion is symptomatic of an undisciplined team. Not only was the play idiotic, but even had it worked what was the point? To have Marek 25 feet from the basket? For a senior pg to be pulling that suggests that this team is not disciplined enough. Would players on other teams feel enabled enough to pull that garbage?
6.) How did we allow Beverly all those looks? Where were the adjustments to identify him as the only guy who could hurt us from outside? If Frank was too lazy to closeout go to Carey and send a message.

It wasn't all on JB. But he had a bad night.

the color commentator who apparently knows howard well was shocked he didn't get the hook after that

 

[Scooch]

I've posted this a few times, but "smooth" is a qualitative term. Efficient is more accurate. SU's offense is exceptionally slow and not particularly efficient (i.e., converting shots to points). If your team is playing with fewer possessions by design, which SU does, possessions become more valuable and need to be converted to points at a higher rate to keep up. That Duke game was won because Syracuse took 80* (20% higher than 2nd most) shots, but they still weren't particularly efficient. That game was an outlier in terms of how they played offense.

SU also doesn't convert FTs, which they need to do because they're scoring with the clock off. UVA is an example of an exceptional offense geared to make the most of every single posession and burn as much clock as possible.

*Forgot that this was an OT game, but 72 FGA in regulation are still the most SU has attempted this season. by 4 against the defensive juggernaut Morehead State (68).

Good post.

Given our obvious offensive deficiencies, it seems that we either need to push tempo in order to create many more possessions, OR we need to grind the game to a complete standstill and try to win via D (like we did last season). However, we appear to be doing neither, which is leading to some pretty darn disappointing results.

 

[Marty McFly]

Oshae at his worst is like a combination of the bad qualities of Kris Joseph and Trevor Cooney.

and todd burgan.

 

[Scooch]

the color commentator who apparently knows howard well was shocked he didn't get the hook after that

JB was so angered by Frank's play that he benched Demtris Nichols.

 

[Fly Rodder]

SU has played 25 games this season. They have an average points per shot of 1.26 and a median of 1.24. In the 12 games where they've had 1.24 pps or better, they're 11-2. In games where they have less than 1.24 pps, they're 6-6 and that includes the Duke, Pitt, and ND wins. The other three were OOC. This is a crude analysis, obviously, hitting more shots results in fewer attempts, so a higher pps, but taking care of the ball is fundamental in a low possession game.

 

[Townie72]

Here's a pop culture reference you'll get. Johnny Carson always used to say that I don't want to hang on until it's too late. I saw that happen to Bob Hope and Jack Paar and it was heartbreaking. JB is approaching Bob Hope/Jack Paar territory.

Think it’s bad now?

Wait for the transition and the new regime and the one after that.

It was great while it lasted.

 

[Cuse'91]

Think it’s bad now?

Wait for the transition and the new regime and the one after that.

It was great while it lasted.

Disagree.
Syracuse basketball can basically sell itself-
1. Attendance
2. Conference
3. Facilities
4. Tradition
All you need it a "Dinoesque" coach willing to put in the time and energy to coaching/recruiting. Lots of young coaches like that are out there.
Boeheim is a HOF'er, but, he "lucked" into a Syracuse situation with BigEast, ESPN, and Carrier Dome mega conflux.

 

[Townie72]

You are over-invested in Jim Boeheim the individual as opposed to Syracuse University basketball the program.

I’ll bite.

What is the SU basketball program without Boeheim? What parts of it do not have his finger prints on it?

He was even an assistant on the 1976 Final Four team.

Of course, there are a bunch of fans who have somehow come to the conclusion that he is the problem and it’s he who is holding the “program” back from rightful and deserved greatness.

To me that’s just predictable noise from the easily frustrated.

 

[Cuse'91]

Yeah, because we all the man we were 20/30/40 years ago...

 

[Bayside44]

jb needs good small forwards to take over. hughes isn't designated, he spends way too many possessions standing in the corner. without great small forwards, what does this offense ever do?

We signed that guy. He decided to play for New Balance instead.

 

[Scooch]

I have a sincere question that I'd love those with strong Xs and Os knowledge to answer...

From a system, scheme or approach standpoint, what, if anything, has SU changed over the past few years?

It seems to me that the most successful teams, across all sports, owe some degree of their success to innovations or changes that they've deployed.

I'll give a non-basketball example... I'm a Red Sox fan. When Alex Cora became manager a year ago he had his batters employ a much more aggressive approach than his predecessor did. The belief was that the Sox had become too passive offensively. They were taking too many pitches for the sake of taking pitches. And they took too few chances on the base paths. So Cora had his batters swinging earlier in counts, stealing more often, and working to get extra bases on hits whenever possible. Needless to say the results were excellent.

Is there anything similar we can point to regarding SU? Again, honest question.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I have a sincere question that I'd love those with strong Xs and Os knowledge to answer...

From a system, scheme or approach standpoint, what, if anything, has SU changed over the past few years?

It seems to me that the most successful teams, across all sports, owe some degree of their success to innovations or changes that they've deployed.

I'll give a non-basketball example... I'm a Red Sox fan. When Alex Cora became manager a year ago he had his batters employ a much more aggressive approach than his predecessor did. The belief was that the Sox had become too passive offensively. They were taking too many pitches for the sake of taking pitches. And they took too few chances on the base paths. So Cora had his batters swinging earlier in counts, stealing more often, and working to get extra bases on hits whenever possible. Needless to say the results were excellent.

Is there anything similar we can point to regarding SU? Again, honest question.

It’s been the same high ball screen for the past 15 years except now we have Howard and Battle instead of Flynn, Scoop, Dion, Triche and MCW. Oh yeah the screeners are now Chukwu and Sidibe instead of Arinze, Christmas, and Fab.

 

[Scooch]

It’s been the same high ball screen for the past 15 years except now we have Howard and Battle instead of Flynn, Scoop, Dion, Triche and MCW. Oh yeah the screeners are now Chukwu and Sidibe instead of Arinze, Christmas, and Fab.

This can't possibly be true, right? We can't be running the exact same thing for 15 years without any tweaks?

 

[Townie72]

Disagree.
Syracuse basketball can basically sell itself-
1. Attendance
2. Conference
3. Facilities
4. Tradition
All you need it a "Dinoesque" coach willing to put in the time and energy to coaching/recruiting. Lots of young coaches like that are out there.
Boeheim is a HOF'er, but, he "lucked" into a Syracuse situation with BigEast, ESPN, and Carrier Dome mega conflux.

You are way more overconfident than you should be.

Attendance is tied to winning. Take the winning away and that attendance will shrink like the football attendance shrank.

The Conference is good news and bad news. It’s very easy for a program to get stuck in the middle or at the bottom.

And the ease of hiring a Dinoesque coach is a pipe dream. How did that work out for us in football over a near 20 year period? If anything, SU lucked into Babers after a long line of failures and a guy who treated the job as a stepping stone.

I paid a lot of attention to Georgetown’s recent search. None of the coaches they wanted were interested. They finally had to turn to a former player and lifetime Assistant coach and beg him to take the job.

 

[Cuse'91]

You are way more overconfident than you should be.

Attendance is tied to winning. Take the winning away and that attendance will shrink like the football attendance shrank.

The Conference is good news and bad news. It’s very easy for a program to get stuck in the middle or at the bottom.

And the ease of hiring a Dinoesque coach is a pipe dream. How did that work out for us in football over a near 20 year period? If anything, SU lucked into Babers after a long line of failures and a guy who treated the job as a stepping stone.

I paid a lot of attention to Georgetown’s recent search. None of the coaches they wanted were interested. They finally had to turn to a former player and lifetime Assistant coach and beg him to take the job.

I'm sincerely curious; how well do you think a Chris Mack or a Buzz would do as HC? There are a ton of solid coaches that would flourish with our resources...

 

[cuse10]

It is too much to read through, but I've said it before that you can't coach effort. I can't make you play hard on both ends of the floor or half ass on the court. For whatever reason, the guys on the court coast then feel like they can turn it on when ever. Division 1 basketball doesn't work that way. When things don't go Tyus' way, he sulks. Believe it or not, it's infectious and spreads like cancer. It's on the guys who actually play to do their jobs. I can scream as much as I want, that won't make you play better.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This can't possibly be true, right? We can't be running the exact same thing for 15 years without any tweaks?

Start here.

Plays/Sets we’ve stopped running over the years...

 

[Millhouse]

I have a sincere question that I'd love those with strong Xs and Os knowledge to answer...

From a system, scheme or approach standpoint, what, if anything, has SU changed over the past few years?

It seems to me that the most successful teams, across all sports, owe some degree of their success to innovations or changes that they've deployed.

I'll give a non-basketball example... I'm a Red Sox fan. When Alex Cora became manager a year ago he had his batters employ a much more aggressive approach than his predecessor did. The belief was that the Sox had become too passive offensively. They were taking too many pitches for the sake of taking pitches. And they took too few chances on the base paths. So Cora had his batters swinging earlier in counts, stealing more often, and working to get extra bases on hits whenever possible. Needless to say the results were excellent.

Is there anything similar we can point to regarding SU? Again, honest question.

Not to derail but they had two fewer walks in 2018 than in 2017. Benintendi Betts and Boegarts are young fast and good. I think their young fast guys hit their prime and they're the ones causing the chaos

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Who says Buddy gets the start?

I asked what you think the starting lineup would be.

 

[Fly Rodder]

From a system, scheme or approach standpoint, what, if anything, has SU changed over the past few years?

Tempo/pace of play for starters. It's still the same general offense, but without the horses, JAB slows the game down. Only in the last half decade, he's slowed it waaaaaaaay down.
(KenPom AdjT ranks)
2019 261
2018 345
2017 243
2016 314
2015 100
2014 344
2013 235
2012 202
2011 212

2010 59
2009 29
2008 27
2007 32
2006 63
2005 180
2004 169
2003 32
2002 114

 

[CuseDuece]

This can't possibly be true, right? We can't be running the exact same thing for 15 years without any tweaks?

It's 100% true. It's scary to say this, but go on youtube and watch any clips from the Flynn era. We run the exact same plays (double fist, elbow, shuffle, and JBs favorite curls) and a high ball screen. One new play, X, was installed in 2013-2014, where Cooney would run from under the basket up to the top of the three point line with a screen at the foul line from the center. it worked in Maui a couple of times, but then teams scouted it, blew it up 1-2 times, and JB didn't create a counter for Cooney, he just ditched the play. We've mostly ditched "5-high" this year, since it took 15 seconds to develop and every team knew it was coming.

"Curls" can be an effective play, but you need to run it crisply like Duke does, and we don't. When coaches can watch tape from 10 years ago, and all the plays are the same, you're really easy to defend.

There used to be a play called Carolina, which was used a lot during Wes's one year here. Wes and the five would go down to the block, with the other 3 players spread across the key. The player on the strong side block would screen for the weak side (usually Wes), and Wes would come to the strong side post and quickly catch the pass for an easy layup. This could be a play for Oshae, but it's long been ditched