Coyle's decision

[elimunelson]

It's definite my favorite parlour game what to do about a floundering program but Coyle, regardless of if you think Shafer is back next year or not, has decisions to make.

The posts about not having a top 25 seasons since 2001 is something that really angers me and should anger the fanbase. Just being good enough and trying to scrape 6 win seasons is embarassing. The excuses are just that, excuses. If BC can figure out a way to get into the top 10 once in that period we should too. Our expectations should be that of BC and probably higher.

We need to figure out if Shafer is our Tom Coughlin or if our Tom Coughlin is out there. I'm not even worried about it being a stepping stone job b/c that usually means a job was done.

It all starts (or begins the end) with Pittsburgh.

 

[TheCusian]

It's definite my favorite parlour game what to do about a floundering program but Coyle, regardless of if you think Shafer is back next year or not, has decisions to make.

The posts about not having a top 25 seasons since 2001 is something that really angers me and should anger the fanbase. Just being good enough and trying to scrape 6 win seasons is embarassing. The excuses are just that, excuses. If BC can figure out a way to get into the top 10 once in that period we should too. Our expectations should be that of BC and probably higher.

We need to figure out if Shafer is our Tom Coughlin or if our Tom Coughlin is out there. I'm not even worried about it being a stepping stone job b/c that usually means a job was done.

It all starts (or begins the end) with Pittsburgh.

1. It does anger me.
2. I don't think any coach has been trying to just go 6-6. I don't think anyone here is saying that's the end goal. It's a nice step coming off of a 3-9 season and starting a million freshman on both sides of the ball.
3. Out expectations are higher. But it's a process.
4. The question is "can Shafer get it done" and when you are evaluating that question you must take "excuses" or as most people call it "context" into it. Or you're a horrible AD and supervisor of people.
5. It's an open question and one that Coyle is and will be evaluating. I hope Shafer gets the job done, but if he doesn't I hope we have a good AD who is good at evaluation.

 

[phil77]

I do not believe in Shafer anymore. I think Coyle is a perfect spot to move on. Nobody would blame him after another losing season if he wanted to bring "his guy" in. In fact the longer he keeps Shafer the harder it will be to get rid of him. For some reason Shafer has won over a good portion of our fan base. I get it he is a great guy and you cheer for him to succeed but the fact remains he hasn't. I have no faith in Shafer to hire the correct people as assistants I have no faith in Shafer to game plan properly and I have no faith in Shafer to make the appropriate in game decisions. I think it is best if we move on.

 

[OrangePA]

I do not believe in Shafer anymore. I think Coyle is a perfect spot to move on. Nobody would blame him after another losing season if he wanted to bring "his guy" in. In fact the longer he keeps Shafer the harder it will be to get rid of him. For some reason Shafer has won over a good portion of our fan base. I get it he is a great guy and you cheer for him to succeed but the fact remains he hasn't. I have no faith in Shafer to hire the correct people as assistants I have no faith in Shafer to game plan properly and I have no faith in Shafer to make the appropriate in game decisions. I think it is best if we move on.

Shafer has won over much of the fan base, including me, for a few reasons: (1) he is honest and decent; (2) he represents the University very well; (3) he truly enjoys and seems committed to the CNY community; (4) he seems sensitive to and appreciative of the fan base; (5) he has done a solid job on the defensive side of the ball for a number of years; (6) he seems to be recruiting well.

Since most of us do not coach and since most have never been to a real practice session or film session we have no idea how well or how poorly his assistants coach.

And since none of us has seen a game plan, I can't imagine that we can judge how or what he and his staff plan for every week.

We all feel confident that we understand play calling and feel that we know fairly well what should be called and when it should be called. Most of us, however, have no idea what we're talking about.

Ultimately, we base our analysis on the W-L record. That's where it pretty much begins and ends.

If the UVA WR had dropped the ball while falling backward into the endzone during the OT and we had won the game, our group view of Shafer would be different.

I think Shafer has sufficient aptitude to win on the Hill. And because I value program stability, I hope he is given a full opportunity to play it out with the guys he has recruited the last two years.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I do not believe in Shafer anymore. I think Coyle is a perfect spot to move on. Nobody would blame him after another losing season if he wanted to bring "his guy" in. In fact the longer he keeps Shafer the harder it will be to get rid of him. For some reason Shafer has won over a good portion of our fan base. I get it he is a great guy and you cheer for him to succeed but the fact remains he hasn't. I have no faith in Shafer to hire the correct people as assistants I have no faith in Shafer to game plan properly and I have no faith in Shafer to make the appropriate in game decisions. I think it is best if we move on.

Anymore? Be honest here...

Looking at some of your previous posts, you never believed in Shafer in the first place.

Jan 6, 2015: This is what happens when you hire all your buddies and one doesn't work out. I expect the rest of the coaching staff to be gone after next season and if we lose 2-3 recruits because of it oh well...

Dec 10, 2014: Our recruiting is good for the Big East the only problem is we are not in the Big East anymore.

Dec 2, 2014: I have not came up with one reason why Shafer should be our head coach. Not one.

Nov 23 2014: Hopefully a buyout of Shafer. Bring in Mike Norvell as the head coach and lets throw the ball all over the dome.

Nov 22, 2014: If George McDonald is a mistake then so is Shafer...

Nov 22, 2014: By giving Shafer another year you are only delaying that process by a year. Get a new OFFENSIVE head coach in here ASAP and start the process now...No reason to wait another year. Nothing I have seen from Shafer tells me he will be a good head coach. He was a terrible hire.

 

[phil77]

Shafer has won over much of the fan base, including me, for a few reasons: (1) he is honest and decent; (2) he represents the University very well; (3) he truly enjoys and seems committed to the CNY community; (4) he seems sensitive to and appreciative of the fan base; (5) he has done a solid job on the defensive side of the ball for a number of years; (6) he seems to be recruiting well.

Since most of us do not coach and since most have never been to a real practice session or film session we have no idea how well or how poorly his assistants coach.

And since none of us has seen a game plan, I can't imagine that we can judge how or what he and his staff plan for every week.

We all feel confident that we understand play calling and feel that we know fairly well what should be called and when it should be called. Most of us, however, have no idea what we're talking about.

Ultimately, we base our analysis on the W-L record. That's where it pretty much begins and ends.

If the UVA WR had dropped the ball while falling backward into the endzone during the OT and we had won the game, our group view of Shafer would be different.

I think Shafer has sufficient aptitude to win on the Hill. And because I value program stability, I hope he is given a full opportunity to play it out with the guys he has recruited the last two years.

So you like him because he is a good guy and does well in the community not because he is a good football coach. Not once did you mention him being good at his job. You listed everything but coaching football. Great guy good in the community and can sort of recruit (while recruiting has gotten better it is still at the bottom of the ACC). When is that not enough to be a good guy? When do you hold him responsible for not being a good coach?

 

[phil77]

Anymore? Be honest here...

Looking at some of your previous posts, you never believed in Shafer in the first place.

I guess you were right I was starting to come around this year but all is lost when you get out coached against USF and UVA. Every year I fall into the preseason hype.

And thank you for taking those quotes those aren't so bad and seem like I was right years ago. I am sure you could have picked worse? LOL

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I guess you were right I was starting to come around this year but all is lost when you get out coached against USF and UVA.

And thank you for taking those quotes those aren't so bad and seem like I was right years ago. I am sure you could have picked worse? LOL

It tells me that your opinion isn't exactly unbiased.

You hated Shafer from Day One, and you still hate him.

 

[phil77]

It tells me that your opinion isn't exactly unbiased.

Why is it unbiased? Which statements were false? Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it unbiased or wrong.

Aren't the people going around blindly supporting him in thread after thread telling everyone it is going to be OK he is a "great" guy doing the same thing from an opposite view point?

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Shafer has won over much of the fan base, including me, for a few reasons: (1) he is honest and decent; (2) he represents the University very well; (3) he truly enjoys and seems committed to the CNY community; (4) he seems sensitive to and appreciative of the fan base; (5) he has done a solid job on the defensive side of the ball for a number of years; (6) he seems to be recruiting well.

Since most of us do not coach and since most have never been to a real practice session or film session we have no idea how well or how poorly his assistants coach.

And since none of us has seen a game plan, I can't imagine that we can judge how or what he and his staff plan for every week.

We all feel confident that we understand play calling and feel that we know fairly well what should be called and when it should be called. Most of us, however, have no idea what we're talking about.

Ultimately, we base our analysis on the W-L record. That's where it pretty much begins and ends.

If the UVA WR had dropped the ball while falling backward into the endzone during the OT and we had won the game, our group view of Shafer would be different.

I think Shafer has sufficient aptitude to win on the Hill. And because I value program stability, I hope he is given a full opportunity to play it out with the guys he has recruited the last two years.

All good points, and to be clear, I'm in favor of giving him another year.

But, part of coaching (or managing a business) is surrounding yourself with people who are, in a perfect world, better than you. Who has Shafer hired who is any good? I believe Daoust is a hold over from Marrone. Has he hired anybody who really stands out? He certainly has hired a lot of assistants who are questionable. If I'm Coyle, I demand that Shafer critically evaluate his staff and replace those who are not cutting it (I realize that there are budgetary considerations, but nobody on this board knows what the may be).

 

[elimunelson]

I also think if we go 3-9 or 4-8, we have to analyze how this is any different from what Greg Robinson was building (or dissembling). Greg was a good guy, good for the community, seemed to be liked but the results sucked.

Greg had Gross who hired him. Shafer does not have the AD by his side b/c it wasn't his hire.

I don't have the answers and can't say that this will be an easy decision or i'm leaning one way or the other at this moment. I am not happy losing the last 2 but who knows maybe Shafer beats Clemson, Louisville, Pitt, NC State and BC and we finish 8-4. That would be a helluva turnaround. I root for that b/c i'm an alum but i also am realistic if it doesn't happen, Coyle has to determine when to pull the bandaid off.

 

[Orangejet]

Coyle will make the right choices regarding the football program and with a possible renovated Dome in play in a few years, now MAY be the time to pull the trigger to get the program back to respectability. It's been too long and we are all tired of losing...nuff said!

 

[TheCusian]

I also think if we go 3-9 or 4-8, we have to analyze how this is any different from what Greg Robinson was building (or dissembling). Greg was a good guy, good for the community, seemed to be liked but the results sucked.

Greg had Gross who hired him. Shafer does not have the AD by his side b/c it wasn't his hire.

I don't have the answers and can't say that this will be an easy decision or i'm leaning one way or the other at this moment. I am not happy losing the last 2 but who knows maybe Shafer beats Clemson, Louisville, Pitt, NC State and BC and we finish 8-4. That would be a helluva turnaround. I root for that b/c i'm an alum but i also am realistic if it doesn't happen, Coyle has to determine when to pull the bandaid off.

You lost me at "any different than Greg Robinson" ... credibility damaged

 

[OttoForLife]

I think it's time SU (and all schools that aren't willing to write a blank check for a head coach & staff) invest in supporting and developing coaches vs the "what can you do for me in three years" approach.

 

[elimunelson]

You lost me at "any different than Greg Robinson" ... credibility damaged

well show me if the results are similar what differs them. Greg at least beat a top 25 team in Louisville and at ND. He was putrid and i'm not trying to defend him, just saying we're being seduced by a guy who hasn't done anything results wise yet. The players may love him, he may be recruiting a little bit better (btw we are pretty much last in our division in ACC rankings) but we haven't had one signature win.

 

[texascpa]

Why is it unbiased? Which statements were false? Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it unbiased or wrong.

Aren't the people going around blindly supporting him in thread after thread telling everyone it is going to be OK he is a "great" guy doing the same thing from an opposite view point?

Explain how we're blindly supporting him. Most of us have reasons that we support him. That does not make us blind.

 

[HOFCeluck]

The OP wanted to fire SS in favor of 70 year old Tom Coughlin.

Just throwin it out there.

 

[phil77]

Explain how we're blindly supporting him. Most of us have reasons that we support him. That does not make us blind.

And I gave reasons as to why I think he should go? What is the difference? Why is one opinion valued over the other? Why is one opinion unbiased why the other one is good?

 

[longtimefan]

well show me if the results are similar what differs them. Greg at least beat a top 25 team in Louisville and at ND. He was putrid and i'm not trying to defend him, just saying we're being seduced by a guy who hasn't done anything results wise yet. The players may love him, he may be recruiting a little bit better (btw we are pretty much last in our division in ACC rankings) but we haven't had one signature win.

I expect that, when the recruiting season is completed, the SU class will not be rated at the bottom of its division. We have 2 QB's coming in--one from Tampa, the other a Louisiana player of the year; and the recruiting gurus love them some "skill position" players.

 

[TheCusian]

well show me if the results are similar what differs them. Greg at least beat a top 25 team in Louisville and at ND. He was putrid and i'm not trying to defend him, just saying we're being seduced by a guy who hasn't done anything results wise yet. The players may love him, he may be recruiting a little bit better (btw we are pretty much last in our division in ACC rankings) but we haven't had one signature win.

1. No one is being seduced.
2. Under Gerg we looked beyond incompetent, under Marrone competent, Shafer inconsistent
3. You're right about signature wins (although I can think of a few he had as DC) (and Minnesota wasn't a horrible team)

 

[bcubs9497]

And I gave reasons as to why I think he should go? What is the difference? Why is one opinion valued over the other? Why is one opinion unbiased why the other one is good?

You're mistaken in thinking that every opinion is "valued". Some are nothing but pure excrement...

 

[Ringostar57]

We need to be recruiting the "hogs" so the fancy skilled players have the time and room to be fancy. And we need to provide the hogs with experienced skilled competent coaching so that the hogs learn how to provide the time and room for the fancy skilled players to do their thing. As of now our hoggettes are suspect just as is the coaching.

 

[CuseCactus]

Shafer has won over much of the fan base, including me, for a few reasons: (1) he is honest and decent; (2) he represents the University very well; (3) he truly enjoys and seems committed to the CNY community; (4) he seems sensitive to and appreciative of the fan base; (5) he has done a solid job on the defensive side of the ball for a number of years; (6) he seems to be recruiting well.

Since most of us do not coach and since most have never been to a real practice session or film session we have no idea how well or how poorly his assistants coach.

And since none of us has seen a game plan, I can't imagine that we can judge how or what he and his staff plan for every week.

We all feel confident that we understand play calling and feel that we know fairly well what should be called and when it should be called. Most of us, however, have no idea what we're talking about.

Ultimately, we base our analysis on the W-L record. That's where it pretty much begins and ends.

If the UVA WR had dropped the ball while falling backward into the endzone during the OT and we had won the game, our group view of Shafer would be different.

I think Shafer has sufficient aptitude to win on the Hill. And because I value program stability, I hope he is given a full opportunity to play it out with the guys he has recruited the last two years.

Love this post. And by the way, I predict a win vs Pitt this weekend. With that said, what W-L record is acceptable - given all of Shafer's positives listed above? If they go 3-9 this year, is that acceptable - finishing the year with 8 straight losses? Should he keep his job after going 6-18 the last two seasons? I'd say no. If they go 4-8? I still say no - winning 1/3 of your games should never be acceptable, particularly on the heels of 2014 - where he won 25%.

I can live with 5-7. That at least would give me some confidence that he's figuring things out. Leaving him at 15-22 over three years. Still depressing - but we would go into 2016 with a lot of hope.

 

[phil77]

You're mistaken in thinking that every opinion is "valued". Some are nothing but pure excrement...

I agree but that is for every person to decide on there own. If people don't like my opinion there is a button you can press to take care of that. Joining a message board is a bad place to join if you don't want to hear/read only what you want.

 

[phil77]

Love this post. And by the way, I predict a win vs Pitt this weekend. With that said, what W-L record is acceptable - given all of Shafer's positives listed above? If they go 3-9 this year, is that acceptable - finishing the year with 8 straight losses? Should he keep his job after going 6-18 the last two seasons? I'd say no. If they go 4-8? I still say no - winning 1/3 of your games should never be acceptable, particularly on the heels of 2014 - where he won 25%.

I can live with 5-7. That at least would give me some confidence that he's figuring things out. Leaving him at 15-22 over three years. Still depressing - but we would go into 2016 with a lot of hope.

I do agree with this if Shafer can get us to 5 wins this year they he will have earned another year. Any thing less then it is time to move on IMO.