Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[kirbivore]

Agree about OCC.

The common theme among these Mahoney/Cuomo projects is lack of planning. The Amphitheater's pretty, and it's improved the big concert scene in Onondaga County by, I dunno, infinity percent.

But they're never gonna solve the access problems because they dropped a 17,000-seat venue on a peninsula where people can only reach it through one gate. And they wrecked a nice new public park to build it. (The West Shore Trail is cut off by the venue and the county allows the promoter to totally shut it down for big windows of time around shows.)

These two go for the quick big splash over doing things the right way.

which is why their stadium would've been a disaster

 

[xc84]

which is why their stadium would've been a disaster

I really don't think the Amphitheater has been a disaster. I think it is in a good spot and while there have been some traffic issues (1) things will be improved as they learn and (2) traffic issues exist in every venue. Go to SPAC for a really popular concert but better go early.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I really don't think the Amphitheater has been a disaster. I think it is in a good spot and while there have been some traffic issues (1) things will be improved as they learn and (2) traffic issues exist in every venue. Go to SPAC for a really popular concert but better go early.

Can you imagine leaving the Dome after a basketball game, and they have only ONE gate open? 15-20,000 people all being funneled through one access point.

That's the Amp before and after a concert.

 

[Jake]

As someone who grew up on the shores of Onondaga Lake, I'm thrilled it's being used, even if it's just as a backdrop for a picturesque amphitheater. As far as getting and getting out, it's easy if you plan ahead..and it sure beats a 2 hour drive home from spac or cmac.

It's been a tremendous addition to the community.

 

[maxxyz]

As someone who grew up on the shores of Onondaga Lake, I'm thrilled it's being used, even if it's just as a backdrop for a picturesque amphitheater. As far as getting and getting out, it's easy if you plan ahead..and it sure beats a 2 hour drive home from spac or cmac.

It's been a tremendous addition to the community.

And its no quicker to park at CMAC or SPAC. Nor easier to exit after a concert.

 

[xc84]

And its no quicker to park at CMAC or SPAC. Nor easier to exit after a concert.

Exactly. SPAC has no main roads to it.

 

[Cuseregular]

As someone who grew up on the shores of Onondaga Lake, I'm thrilled it's being used, even if it's just as a backdrop for a picturesque amphitheater. As far as getting and getting out, it's easy if you plan ahead..and it sure beats a 2 hour drive home from spac or cmac.

It's been a tremendous addition to the community.

Can you imagine leaving the Dome after a basketball game, and they have only ONE gate open? 15-20,000 people all being funneled through one access point.

That's the Amp before and after a concert.

Been to many concerts there now and I can say with certainty it's the best outdoor concert venue I've ever seen or went to show at.

And that includes the Red Rocks amp in Colorado that I literally just got back from a show at last Thursday. Best sound and acoustics, nicest setting right there on the water and a sunset to marvel at on a clear night. Every time I go I have to pinch myself and remind myself I'm in Syracuse.

They've worked out most kinks up there, the pre show tailgating is a hoot, and if you pony up a few extra bucks for premier parking you're in and out very quickly no wait, and park right in front no problems no issues.

Now that it's done paved etc. it should be all systems go. No one should hesitate to see a show there.

 

[zjscuse]

Can anyone for the life of me explain why the state didnt pony up with the crunch and turn that shiny new expo center inside the fair there new venue.. while i relize the war memorial has history, its a lost cause. You could actually tailgate before a game and enjoy a great new venue .. they couldve easily planned an awesome experience in that building.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Can anyone for the life of me explain why the state didnt pony up with the crunch and turn that shiny new expo center inside the fair there new venue.. while i relize the war memorial has history, its a lost cause. You could actually tailgate before a game and enjoy a great new venue .. they couldve easily planned an awesome experience in that building.

The Crunch's lease with the County doesn't expire until either 2025 or 2030.

 

[maxxyz]

Can anyone for the life of me explain why the state didnt pony up with the crunch and turn that shiny new expo center inside the fair there new venue.. while i relize the war memorial has history, its a lost cause. You could actually tailgate before a game and enjoy a great new venue .. they couldve easily planned an awesome experience in that building.

Having a hockey venue at the fairgrounds has zero benefit to the area, which is why cities have sports teams. With a downtown venue, you have 2000-4000 people attending, with a percentage hitting up downtown bars & restaurants before and after. At the fairgrounds people get into their vehicles and head home.

 

[OburgOrange]

Been to many concerts there now and I can say with certainty it's the best outdoor concert venue I've ever seen or went to show at. And that includes the Red Rocks amp in Colorado that I literally just got back from a show at last Thursday. Best sound and acoustics, nicest setting right there on the water and a sunset to marvel at on a clear night.

They've worked out most kinks up there, the pre show tailgating is a hoot, and if you pony up a few extra bucks for premier parking you're in and out very quickly no wait, and park right in front no problems no issues.

Now that it's done paved etc. it should be all systems go. No one should hesitate to see a show there.

Glad to hear that Mike. I’ve been holding back going to concerts there because of all the bad reorts about traffic. I’ll give it a go

 

[SmilinBob]

Why not have a boat taxi/bus service to the Amp? That would be pretty cool and maybe relieve some of the traffic?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Can anyone for the life of me explain why the state didnt pony up with the crunch and turn that shiny new expo center inside the fair there new venue.. while i relize the war memorial has history, its a lost cause. You could actually tailgate before a game and enjoy a great new venue .. they couldve easily planned an awesome experience in that building.

It only has seating for 4000 but it easily has space to support something much larger. Hopefully they put something besides a hockey rink in there for next year’s fair. How many people are going to skate in shorts and a tank top when it’s nice out? Bring in a traveling A list show and charge admission.

 

[TexanMark]

It only has seating for 4000 but it easily has space to support something much larger. Hopefully they put something besides a hockey rink in there for next year’s fair. How many people are going to skate in shorts and a tank top when it’s nice out? Bring in a traveling A list show and charge admission.

The paper said they could put up to 9000 in there for a concert. If so, I hope they built enough rest rooms.

 

[OttoMets]

The question about the Amp isn't whether it's an amenity (it is) but whether the fact that it was rushed and poorly-planned prevented it from being the best possible venue for the public (it isn't).

 

[TexanMark]

The question about the Amp isn't whether it's an amenity (it is) but whether the fact that it was rushed and poorly-planned prevented it from being the best possible venue for the public (it isn't).

Is there a solution to get hikers/bikers through the area on concert days? That sounds pretty crappy.

 

[xc84]

The question about the Amp isn't whether it's an amenity (it is) but whether the fact that it was rushed and poorly-planned prevented it from being the best possible venue for the public (it isn't).

I81 rebuild will take a decade of planning and there will still be issues and complaints to matter what is done. The amphitheater, for the most part, was done very well including the location. Issues can be ironed out. Growing pains are normal. There are naysayers who said "No one will go there" and here we are complaining that the large crowds are an issue.

 

[OttoMets]

Is there a solution to get hikers/bikers through the area on concert days? That sounds pretty crappy.

The trouble is with the design.

You can see that the trail comes in from the west and they plunked the Amp's roof on top of it; it pretty much goes through the middle of the venue. So I can kind of see why the promoter wouldn't want people there on show days. But the county didn't have to place it here (there were two other options for orienting the building to accommodate the older trail), and in theory at least the county could've negotiated with SMG to keep the trail open.

I don't have the document handy and don't exactly remember where the other two alternatives placed the building. And there was very limited public participation because this was rushed through. But for my money (and a couple critics echoed this at the time), the Amp should've been built closer to the center of that shot, still on the lake, but much closer to parking and the Expo Center, with room for the trail.

 

[maxxyz]

The question about the Amp isn't whether it's an amenity (it is) but whether the fact that it was rushed and poorly-planned prevented it from being the best possible venue for the public (it isn't).

You’re correct - the Amp was rushed thru for political gain and it isn’t as good as it could have been, mostly on the stage side that concert goers aren’t affected by; the stage is too small and the grid above the stage is too low to have the bigger acts.

Most of the people who complain about it seem to have never been there and are repeating 2nd hand info. Its a great venue from the fans standpoint. Good seating, great sight lines, and the best lawn seating of any of the upstate sheds (CMAC,SPAC, Darien Lake). The location is great, sunsets are great, sound is great. The parking situation is 90% solved. Yes they have things to work on, as does every venue in the first five years of their existence. But the Amp is way better than people are giving it credit for.

 

[OttoMets]

I81 rebuild will take a decade of planning and there will still be issues and complaints to matter what is done. The amphitheater, for the most part, was done very well including the location. Issues can be ironed out. Growing pains are normal. There are naysayers who said "No one will go there" and here we are complaining that the large crowds are an issue.

Oy. I don't think any of that has anything to do with my post. There was nearly a blank canvas out there. The project was rushed through and poorly planned. Just because it's a generally nice result doesn't mean that every existing problem with the venue couldn't have been avoided. Because they easily could have.

 

[Trueblue25]

It only has seating for 4000 but it easily has space to support something much larger. Hopefully they put something besides a hockey rink in there for next year’s fair. How many people are going to skate in shorts and a tank top when it’s nice out? Bring in a traveling A list show and charge admission.

Maybe host a winter Gusmacker!

 

[xc84]

The trouble is with the design.
View attachment 137871
You can see that the trail comes in from the west and they plunked the Amp's roof on top of it; it pretty much goes through the middle of the venue. So I can kind of see why the promoter wouldn't want people there on show days. But the county didn't have to place it here (there were two other options for orienting the building to accommodate the older trail), and in theory at least the county could've negotiated with SMG to keep the trail open.

I don't have the document handy and don't exactly remember where the other two alternatives placed the building. And there was very limited public participation because this was rushed through. But for my money (and a couple critics echoed this at the time), the Amp should've been built closer to the center of that shot, still on the lake, but much closer to parking and the Expo Center, with room for the trail.

I prefer it right near the lake. The running trail aspect can be fixed. There is room behind it to create a cut-off trail. In the meantime, it's cool to run/ride by the Amphitheater when there is no concert.

There are pros and cons to rushing it through. One "pro" is it actually gets done.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

One narrow pathway from the parking lot to the Amp. It's not wide enough, and it needs better lighting. I've been to two DMB shows, and I've seen people almost get trampled on their way out.

 

[OttoMets]

I prefer it right near the lake. The running trail aspect can be fixed. There is room behind it to create a cut-off trail. In the meantime, it's cool to run/ride by the Amphitheater when there is no concert.

There are pros and cons to rushing it through. One "pro" is it actually gets done.

Found a snippet of the C&S site selection options. Here's the second (of two, not three, apparently):

This also would be close to the lake, but closer to parking and with multiple ingress/egress opportunities, and with no trail interruption.

And I'm not even arguing in favor of this option, in spite of its obvious advantages. My point in this thread is that (while the public are not experts and shouldn't have the final say on this or I-81 or anything else) a 30-day comment period is unacceptable and public-works projects should be carried out in a much more strategic and transparent way.

This was, as a colleague put it, a "political vanity" project on which we all got lucky in that the final venue is 85% wonderful. I'm sorry that they left that other 15% on the table; I hate the process; and I hope we're not all going to grow extra appendages due to design/construction shortcuts taken on a contaminated site.

 

[xc84]

Found a snippet of the C&S site selection options. Here's the second (of two, not three, apparently): View attachment 137874
This also would be close to the lake, but closer to parking and with multiple ingress/egress opportunities, and with no trail interruption.

And I'm not even arguing in favor of this option, in spite of its obvious advantages. My point in this thread is that (while the public are not experts and shouldn't have the final say on this or I-81 or anything else) a 30-day comment period is unacceptable and public-works projects should be carried out in a much more strategic and transparent way.

This was, as a colleague put it, a "political vanity" project on which we all got lucky in that the final venue is 85% wonderful. I'm sorry that they left that other 15% on the table; I hate the process; and I hope we're not all going to grow extra appendages due to design/construction shortcuts taken on a contaminated site.

Not clear to me how this fixes the issue related to the running trail. It still looks like it is within the grounds of the amphitheater.