Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion | Page 50 | Syracusefan.com

Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

I'm assuming you mean to 390 North? If you're west of Binghamton, that might make more sense, but Google Maps shows Binghamton to Rochester as being a full 15 minutes longer than going North on 81 to 690. It's 10 minutes longer (and 10 miles longer) than taking 481 to 690. Maybe saving a few bucks by not taking the Thruway is worth that 10 minutes, though. And I'm sure there is less traffic on 86 and 390 than on 81 and the Thruway.

You're right.390 North. And I listened to Google maps until I drove it myself a few times. With the lighter traffic and a more lenient approach to speed limits it's a wash today and will actually be a few minutes quicker.
 
There is zero chance that it will be faster to get to 690 west by taking the community grid instead of staying on 481/81 to the eastern end of 690 and taking that. I count at least 10 traffic lights between where 81 would peel off at Rock Cut Rd and 690 via the community grid. That's about 3 miles. You're leaving off the 1.5 miles of grade-level boulevard from Rock Cut Rd to downtown that won't be the community grid "proper" but will still not be an expressway and will have cross streets to navigate (like Brighton Ave and Colvin St).

I do agree that the solution is not totally ideal for someone trying to get from south of the city to west of the city, or vice versa, but I do still think that there is infrastructure currently in place to not make it a total nightmare and hopefully make it a minor inconvenience, at worst. I also happen to believe that it is the best solution for the city, which should have a positive effect on the entire community as a result.
I think you’re vastly mistaken on where the highway is going to transition to a boulevard. The transition will NOT occur where 81 routes onto what is now 481. They will have to come up with a new name for the stretch of highway that continues towards the city; some have suggested calling it the “81 business spur”. The actual transition to a boulevard will take place very near the university and what is now the almond steeet/Harrison street exit. They are considering adding exits on the business spur but all plans show about a 1.5 mile boulevard.
 
I’m talking about 81 northbound traffic trying to head to points west e.g Auburn, Rochester, Buffalo. That traffic is not going to take 481. It will be faster to just take the business spur into the city, get through a few lights and hook up with 690 west.

Yes, you're right. It's only about a mile, if that. You can get on 690 Westbound at West St.
 
I think you’re vastly mistaken on where the highway is going to transition to a boulevard. The transition will NOT occur where 81 routes onto what is now 481. They will have to come up with a new name for the stretch of highway that continues towards the city; some have suggested calling it the “81 business spur”. The actual transition to a boulevard will take place very near the university and what is now the almond steeet/Harrison street exit. They are considering adding exits on the business spur but all plans show about a 1.5 mile boulevard.


Actually, the drawings I saw showed 3 exits off the 81 North Spur, between Brighton and Adams. They will divert the traffic onto an improved State Street and Salina Street, both will be widened to 2 lanes, at least city-bound. I think there is a third north-south street, too that traffic will be steered to. I want to say Kennedy, but I don't think that's right.
 
Actually, the drawings I saw showed 3 exits off the 81 North Spur, between Brighton and Adams. They will divert the traffic onto an improved State Street and Salina Street, both will be widened to 2 lanes, at least city-bound. I think there is a third north-south street, too that traffic will be steered to. I want to say Kennedy, but I don't think that's right.
But the point being those exits should not slow down thru traffic on the spur. If people want to get off at those streets the spur should provide a separate exit lane.
 
Yes, you're right. It's only about a mile, if that. You can get on 690 Westbound at West St.
Even faster. Makes me wonder if any thru traffic is going to bother with 481.
 
But the point being those exits should not slow down thru traffic on the spur. If people want to get off at those streets the spur should provide a separate exit lane.

Yes, that's basic city planning. Have an exit lane.
 
Yes, that's basic city planning. Have an exit lane.
Just wish they included an exit for the West Seneca Turnpike. That's a major interchange. I shouldn’t have to navigate Salina st just to get on 81. It’s horrible planning.
 
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I still can't get past the quarry I used to play in as a youth in DeWitt (off of Quintard and Jamesville Road), has been a residential area now for probably 20 plus years.

Because it's inside 481 I should hesitate before calling it sprawl, but that kind of development hasn't made DeWitt a prettier place in the last two decades. I remember when they started moving earth for that one, summer 1999, I think. Quintard was part of my running loop at least twice a week. I'd always taken it for granted that that would be open space.
 
I still can't get past the quarry I used to play in as a youth in DeWitt (off of Quintard and Jamesville Road), has been a residential area now for probably 20 plus years.
I'd frequent that quarry also - and the quarry on the other side of Nottingham Road/481. Used to ride our bike through there. Seemed like it was the size of Wyoming
 
I'd frequent that quarry also - and the quarry on the other side of Nottingham Road/481. Used to ride our bike through there. Seemed like it was the size of Wyoming

I used to live off of Quintard. We used to go there and catch newts among other things.
 
Even faster. Makes me wonder if any thru traffic is going to bother with 481.

Of course there will be.

481 between Rockcut Road and Genesee St in Dewitt currently has about 35,000 cars per day. That traffic increases to 57,000 cars per day once 481 crosses Genesee St. The traffic tapers off to about 43,000 cars per day north of 690 up to the interchange with the Thruway, and 35,000 cars continue north of there to where it reconnects to Route 81 in North Syracuse, where the traffic goes back up to 48,000 cars per day. Going further toward Oswego, the traffic remains around 35,000 cars per day past North Syracuse out toward Route 31 in Clay.

Route 81 north of the City carries a little over 100,000 cars per day. Between Destiny and Mattydale, the traffic count is about 101,000 cars, and remains about that amount up to the exit for the airport. After that, traffic on 81 goes down to around 65,000 cars per day to North Syracuse, then the traffic on 81 decreases to 53,000 cars per day up to Cicero, and after that, traffic further north diminishes to 43,000 cars per day to Brewerton, and then about 41,000 cars per day further north.

Route 81, approaching the city from the south, carries 88,000 cars per day (these numbers are all in both directions), but only 19,000 of those cars continue north of Adams St. Of those cars, only 12,000 continue on Northbound 81 through the center of the city; the most dangerous part of the road that needs to be replaced.

690 West has about 85,000 cars from West St. through downtown, increasing to a peak of 136,000 cars between downtown and Midler / Thompson Road, and then tapers off out to the eastern suburbs to about 85,000 cars again, decreasing as you get past Thompson Road. Ultimately, that traffic dumps onto 481 or turns local.

Here is the DOT traffic information: Geocortex Viewer for HTML5

So, looking at these numbers, only about 15% of the north-south Route 81 traffic currently goes all the way through the City. We're talking about creating more exits south of the city to disperse that traffic in a more orderly fashion.

So Congel and Crew are trying to force a tunnel or expansion of an overhead Route 81 through the city for the benefit of only 12-19,000 cars a day. Half that many already use Salina St. For this we should spend literally billions more dollars. Twice as many cars currently use 481 near Rockcut Road as go entirely through the City on Route 81. Does that make any sense whatsoever?
 
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Of course there will be.

481 between Rockcut Road and Genesee St in Dewitt currently has about 35,000 cars per day. That traffic increases to 57,000 cars per day once 481 crosses Genesee St. The traffic tapers off to about 43,000 cars per day north of 690 up to the interchange with the Thruway, and 35,000 cars continue north of there to where it reconnects to Route 81 in North Syracuse, where the traffic goes back up to 48,000 cars per day. Going further toward Oswego, the traffic remains around 35,000 cars per day past North Syracuse out toward Route 31 in Clay.

Route 81 north of the City carries a little over 100,000 cars per day. Between Destiny and Mattydale, the traffic count is about 101,000 cars, and remains about that amount up to the exit for the airport. After that, traffic on 81 goes down to around 65,000 cars per day to North Syracuse, then the traffic on 81 decreases to 53,000 cars per day up to Cicero, and after that, traffic further north diminishes to 43,000 cars per day to Brewerton, and then about 41,000 cars per day further north.

Route 81, approaching the city from the south, carries 88,000 cars per day (these numbers are all in both directions), but only 19,000 of those cars continue north of Adams St. Of those cars, only 12,000 continue on Northbound 81 through the center of the city; the most dangerous part of the road that needs to be replaced.

690 West has about 85,000 cars from West St. through downtown, increasing to a peak of 136,000 cars between downtown and Midler / Thompson Road, and then tapers off out to the eastern suburbs to about 85,000 cars again, decreasing as you get past Thompson Road. Ultimately, that traffic dumps onto 481 or turns local.

Here is the DOT traffic information: Geocortex Viewer for HTML5

So, looking at these numbers, only about 15% of the north-south Route 81 traffic currently goes all the way through the City. We're talking about creating more exits south of the city to disperse that traffic in a more orderly fashion.

So Congel and Crew are trying to force a tunnel or expansion of an overhead Route 81 through the city for the benefit of only 12-19,000 cars a day. Half that many already use Salina St. For this we should spend literally billions more dollars. Twice as many cars currently use 481 near Rockcut Road as go entirely through the City on Route 81. Does that make any sense whatsoever?
I’m one of the 19,000. I resent that remark.
 
I’m one of the 19,000. I resent that remark.

Are you being sarcastic? I may have missed the /s/.
If you're going west via 690, why don't you get off and on at West St.?
You don't need to take 81 either to 690 or the Thruway.
 
Are you being sarcastic? I may have missed the /s/.
If you're going west via 690, why don't you get off and on at West St.?
You don't need to take 81 either to 690 or the Thruway.
I work just north of the airport. I don’t take 690.
 
I work just north of the airport. I don’t take 690.

Well, that's a bit inconvenient for you. Might add 10 minutes or so to your commute.

I thought you were talking about westbound traffic from 81 North south of the city before, but that might have been another poster.
 
Well, that's a bit inconvenient for you. Might add 10 minutes or so to your commute.

I thought you were talking about westbound traffic from 81 North south of the city before, but that might have been another poster.
That was me... I just like talking about different aspects of this project.
 
Just got back from the Hill, drove by Marshall Street. God it’s an eyesore next to the new mixed use complex.
 
Actually, the drawings I saw showed 3 exits off the 81 North Spur, between Brighton and Adams. They will divert the traffic onto an improved State Street and Salina Street, both will be widened to 2 lanes, at least city-bound. I think there is a third north-south street, too that traffic will be steered to. I want to say Kennedy, but I don't think that's right.


Community Grid Alternative

The Community Grid Alternative would demolish the existing I-81 viaduct, which would be decommissioned as an interstate, and make improvements to I-481, which would be re-designated as I-81. Almond Street would be reconstructed as a surface street, with bicycle/pedestrian amenities and potential for urban design/aesthetic treatments.

The Community Grid Alternative would disperse traffic throughout the city grid by promoting broader use of the existing street network. North-south vehicular traffic would be channeled through Almond Street and along parallel corridors, such as Crouse Avenue, Irving Avenue, State Street, and Townsend Street. East-west traffic routes would include Erie Boulevard, Harrison Street, and Adams Street.

The Community Grid Alternative includes creation of a new access point at MLK, Jr. East that would improve access to the Southside and University Hill from the south; alleviate congestion at Adams, Harrison, and Almond Streets; reduce the number of lanes needed on those streets; and improve conditions for pedestrians and bicyclists. To provide a more direct connection to University Hill from I-690 and optimize the use of the city street grid, a full interchange would be constructed at Crouse and Irving Avenues.

The Community Grid, includes reconstruction of the I-81/I-690 interchange to provide connections in all directions, interchange modifications, bridge replacements, and other features, as described in Common Features below.

The estimated cost of the Community Grid Alternative, which includes preliminary property acquisition costs, is $1.3 billion.

Common Features of Viaduct and Community Grid Alternatives

The Viaduct and Community Grid Alternatives have several features in common, as described below.

Improvements to I-690 and the I-81/I-690 Interchange

Both alternatives would reconstruct I-690 (from Leavenworth Avenue to Lodi Street under the Viaduct Alternative, and from Leavenworth Avenue to Beech Street under the Community Grid Alternative). Both include full reconstruction of the I-81/I-690 interchange, with modifications to improve highway safety and vehicle maneuvers onto and off the highways. Reconstruction also would include the addition of two connections that are missing in the existing interchange: a ramp between southbound I-81 and westbound I-690, and a ramp between eastbound I-690 and northbound I-81.

West Street Improvements

west-st-impovements.jpg


At West Street, the existing, free-flow interchange would be replaced with a new interchange, controlled by a traffic signal. Just south of the new interchange, West Street would be lowered to meet Genesee Street, creating a normalized intersection. The new West Street-Genesee Street intersection would improve interstate access to and from Genesee Street. Additionally, the removal of the West Street overpass would remove a barrier between the West Side and Downtown, creating a new gateway to Downtown and opening up views of the City that are now obstructed.

Capacity Improvements on I-81 from I-690 to Hiawatha Boulevard

The number of travel lanes provided on I-81 from I-690 to Hiawatha Boulevard would be increased from three to four in each direction to improve capacity and traffic operations. Several non-standard highway features, such as narrow shoulders, tight curves, and reduced sight distance, also would be corrected. To accommodate this wider interstate and correct the non-standard and non-conforming features, Genant Drive would be closed from approximately Spencer Street to Clinton Street. The Court Street interchange (Interchange 21) would be reconstructed with longer entrance ramps and better merges. The Route 370 (Onondaga Lake Parkway) on-ramp (Interchange 24A) and Old Liverpool Road on-ramp to southbound I-81 (Interchange 24B) would be consolidated into a single ramp, and the on-ramp to southbound I-81 from Genant Drive between Spencer and Clinton Streets (Interchange 21) would be closed to accommodate the wider interstate and ramp consolidation. The southbound frontage road on the southwest side of I-81 also would be reconstructed due to the realignment of the interstate.

Onondaga Creekwalk Improvements

The removal of infrastructure in the West Street area described above would allow the creation of a new path along the west bank of Onondaga Creek between Erie Boulevard and Evans Street, providing access to natural and historic resources, and providing views, which are now obstructed, of the historic Erie Canal aqueduct over the Creek. Connectivity would be enhanced via connections between the new bicycle/pedestrian path on the west bank of the creek, the existing Creekwalk on the east bank, and the sidewalks along West Street.

New Butternut Street Bridge

The Butternut Street overpass would be rebuilt in a new location over existing Genant Drive to connect to Clinton and Franklin Streets, providing better access into the Franklin Square neighborhood. Existing Butternut Street would be removed from State to Franklin Streets. The new bridge would be narrower than the existing bridge, with one lane (rather than two lanes in the existing) in each direction. The new bridge would include wider sidewalks on both sides as well as two on-road bike lanes one in each direction.

Enhancements for Pedestrians and Bicycles

enhancements-bike-safety.jpg


Under all alternatives, safety and connectivity would be improved on Almond Street, not only for motorists but also for pedestrians and bicyclists. Pedestrian walkways and bike lanes would be clearly defined with pavement markings, color, or aesthetic treatments to promote driver awareness of pedestrians and bicycles. Bollards, medians, and extensions of the sidewalk at street corners would enhance safety at crossing locations. (use the final image, with all elements, from the presentation)
 

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